Natural Diamonds - New Campaign - Good timing or too little too late?

[freddyboston]

I also want to ask, if labs are so terrible, cheap, not real, etc. then why are so many premier designers such as Leon Mege, Victor Canera, Erika Winters, CVB, etc willing to work with labs?

I'm surprised people will pay for $ custom designer setting / precious metals and then go with a big bluff synth... such a mis-match...

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I'm surprised people will pay for $ custom designer setting / precious metals and then go with a big bluff synth... such a mis-match...

What a coincidence. I was just looking at a gorgeous engagement ring setting encrusted with diamonds. I don’t know if it’s custom or not. It just popped up as an advertisement, and all I could think was how BEAUTIFUL my 2-carat LGD would look in that setting. But I guess that’s a mismatch, so I’ll keep my plain 6-prong platinum setting.

 

[freddyboston]

if it's an ad it's likely stock setting....

but designer stuff why not stay natural and go w/ colors or smaller diamonds if you don't want spend $$$ on big diamond....

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

I'm surprised people will pay for $ custom designer setting / precious metals and then go with a big bluff synth... such a mis-match...

Is lab a synth though? Or just a diamond created through a different process.

 

[newtojewels]

Is lab a synth though? Or just a diamond created through a different process.

I think you're maybe conflating "synthetic" and "simulant". A synthetic gemstone is something with the same chemical composition but made by humans/in a lab. A simulant is something that looks similar but has different chemical composition. So CZ and "paste" (glass) were diamond simulants, whereas lab diamonds are synthetic diamonds. But because 'synthetic' has the connotation of being artificial/fake, the industry in general doesn't use that term when they can use 'lab' instead.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Is lab a synth though? Or just a diamond created through a different process.

Oxford dictionary defines “synthetic” as a substance made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product. (They used synthetic rubber as an example.) However, an LGD is in fact a diamond created via a different process. The FTC apparently does not consider lab grown diamonds to be synthetic.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

if it's an ad it's likely stock setting....

but designer stuff why not stay natural and go w/ colors or smaller diamonds if you don't want spend $$$ on big diamond....

Because now I don’t have to. I can have both. For all I know the diamonds in the encrusted setting are also LGD.

 

[freddyboston]

Because now I don’t have to. I can have both. For all I know the diamonds in the encrusted setting are also LGD.

i was addressing the use of Leon Mege etc... He makes Heirloom Quality rings... His preowned stuff goes to auction or consignment you don't generally just melt them down... So if one is paying the upcharge for his bench why use LGB ? (it's like putting cheap tires on Rolls Royce)

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

i was addressing the use of Leon Mege etc... He makes Heirloom Quality rings... His preowned stuff goes to auction or consignment you don't generally just melt them down... So if one is paying the upcharge for his bench why use LGB ? (it's like putting cheap tires on Rolls Royce)

I think it would be more like putting a rhinestone in a Leon Mege setting, the rhinestone being the equivalent of the cheap tires

 

[Texas Leaguer]

"lab grown diamonds" is the term the market coalesced around, though not everyone agrees with that terminology. Many prefer "man-made" or "synthetic" to more clearly distinguish them from natural diamonds.

GIA and their top scientists have historically used the term "synthetic".

https://www.gia.edu/synthetic-diamond-articles

 

[newtojewels]

That FTC decision to not call them synthetic diamonds was made after lobbying, not talking to chemists. Lab diamonds are synthetic diamonds because they are diamonds that were made by humans. Note the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond

A synthetic diamond or laboratory-grown diamond (LGD), also called a lab-grown, laboratory-created, man-made, artisan-created, artificial, or cultured diamond, is a diamond that is produced in a controlled technological process, in contrast to a naturally-formed diamond, which is created through geological processes and obtained by mining. Unlike diamond simulants (imitations of diamond made of superficially similar non-diamond materials), synthetic diamonds are composed of the same material as naturally formed diamonds—pure carbon crystallized in an isotropic 3D form—and have identical chemical and physical properties.

The International Gem Society: https://www.gemsociety.org/article/brief-history-of-lab-grown-diamonds/

As the name indicates, lab-grown diamonds (also known as synthetic diamonds) are created or "synthesized" in laboratories. To understand this process, you must first understand how natural diamonds form.

GIA: https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/what-are-synthetic-diamonds/

Lab-Grown Diamond Jewelry: What are Synthetic Diamonds?
Synthetic diamonds are grown in laboratories and have essentially the same chemical composition, crystal structure and physical properties as natural diamonds. They’re real diamonds and not ‘fakes,’ but they are not the same as natural diamonds.

Here's an announcement from the American Chemical Society discussing the first documented lab-made diamonds from 1955, using the word "synthesis" as lab diamonds are "synthesized":

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/cen-v033n008.p718

 

[newtojewels]

i was addressing the use of Leon Mege etc... He makes Heirloom Quality rings... His preowned stuff goes to auction or consignment you don't generally just melt them down... So if one is paying the upcharge for his bench why use LGB ? (it's like putting cheap tires on Rolls Royce)

I think if someone's budget were say $7k and they wanted an Erika Winters or Leon Mege setting, that setting alone would use up the vast majority of their budget. Some people would rather have the overall look than a natural diamond in a more basic setting. A lot of people in the colored stones section of PS spend far more on the settings to house the stones than they did on the stones themselves, and this could just be an extension of that for some people.

 

[freddyboston]

That FTC decision to not call them synthetic diamonds was made after lobbying,

Indeed... it was deliberate in order to mislead / confuse the the public..... they wanted to make it a LAB vs Mine decision instead of a choice between synthesized or natural

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

That FTC decision to not call them synthetic diamonds was made after lobbying, not talking to chemists. Lab diamonds are synthetic diamonds because they are diamonds that were made by humans. Note the wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_diamond

The International Gem Society: https://www.gemsociety.org/article/brief-history-of-lab-grown-diamonds/

GIA: https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/what-are-synthetic-diamonds/


Here's an announcement from the American Chemical Society discussing the first documented lab-made diamonds from 1955, using the word "synthesis" as lab diamonds are "synthesized":

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/cen-v033n008.p718

I found a definition of synthesis that says “The production of chemical compounds by reaction from simpler materials.” So does that mean a diamond is a “chemical compound”, the result from crystallized carbon being the “simpler material”?

 

[freddyboston]

I think if someone's budget were say $7k and they wanted an Erika Winters or Leon Mege setting, that setting alone would use up the vast majority of their budget. Some people would rather have the overall look than a natural diamond in a more basic setting. A lot of people in the colored stones section of PS spend far more on the settings to house the stones than they did on the stones themselves, and this could just be an extension of that for some people.

but those lower price then the setting color stones are usually authentic and high quality for their type....

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

but those color stones are usually real and high quality for their type....

My lab-grown diamond is, of course, real, and it’s high-quality.

 

[newtojewels]

I found a definition of synthesis that says “The production of chemical compounds by reaction from simpler materials.” So does that mean a diamond is a “chemical compound”, the result from crystallized carbon being the “simpler material”?

"Chemical compound" here isn't quite broad enough to apply to diamonds as a chemical compound involves multiple chemical elements when defined strictly. A diamond is elemental (pure) carbon in a specific crystal form. Graphite and buckminsterfullerene are also 100% carbon but in different 3D arrangements. The really special thing about carbon and why it's the underpinning for all life is its ability to bond in so many different ways. Here's an article specifically about diamond vs graphite that goes into this a bit: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-can-graphite-and-diam/

My understanding is that when lab diamonds are made they generally go from graphite (elemental carbon, used in HPHT) or methane (CH4, used in CVD) to the diamond form of the carbon. Both chemical processes 'move' the carbon from the original graphite/methane form to a starting diamond 'seed', crystallizing around it. That is a chemical reaction and makes it chemical synthesis as we have moved from a simpler form of carbon to a more complex one, even if it isn't strictly a chemical compound.

Note that I am not a chemist. My chemistry background went through two semesters of undergraduate organic chemistry and not beyond. I'm sure we have many PSers who are much more familiar with this than I am!

but those lower price then the setting color stones are usually authentic and high quality for their type....

But it points to a prioritization of the overall look of a piece of jewelry over the monetary value of the stone(s) or materials involved. JAR is a jeweler who famously uses aluminum, titanium, resin, and similarly inexpensive materials to make jewelry that costs in the tens of thousands of dollars. For people who view jewelry as the art form rather than the value of the materials, that can be worth it.

And for whatever it's worth, I prefer and only own natural gemstones. But for me an Erika Winters setting specifically was important for my engagement ring and I preferred a diamond for my engagement ring to make it feel more unique in my jewelry collection. If I had been on a more limited budget, I would have had to think through my priorities and decided where to compromise. I could imagine compromising on the origin of the center stone to get the setting designer I wanted.

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

I think this thread represents the market right now. There are those who value both and will purchase both . There are those who will only purchase natural. Though the price of natural diamonds has dropped due to the substitution effect, the market for naturals hasn't crashed. There's still a decent market out there for naturals. Personally, I'm happy there's a market for both types.

 

[elle_chris]

Let's stop trying to re-define synthetic.
We all know what it means - man made, not natural.

The FTC only applies to the US. Like I said in an earlier post, in France they must be called synthetic. In England, they can be called lab made or synthetic.

They are a man made product, which is in fact synthetic.

 

[elle_chris]

I think this thread represents the market right now. There are those who value both and will purchase both . There are those who will only purchase natural. Though the price of natural diamonds has dropped due to the substitution effect, the market for naturals hasn't crashed. There's still a decent market out there for naturals. Personally, I'm happy there's a market for both types.

I agree, I'm glad there's both and I own both.
Depending on what I want to do is what decides whether I go natural or lab.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Do you sell these?

No way Possums - only natural
But I have collections of all sorts of synthetics and imitations for study and training staff.
If cheap synthetic diamonds never came along Moissanite would be king!

 

[freddyboston]

here we go

Five-Euro Lab Growns Kick off Antwerp Campaign

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

i was addressing the use of Leon Mege etc... He makes Heirloom Quality rings... His preowned stuff goes to auction or consignment you don't generally just melt them down... So if one is paying the upcharge for his bench why use LGB ? (it's like putting cheap tires on Rolls Royce)

Because then the ring costs less! IMHO Mege’s Mon Cheri is the prettiest version of the graduated-French-cut setting. I couldn’t afford a Mon Cheri with a natural diamond center stone on Mon Petit Buget so I got a LGD center. He did not invoice me for the center stone.

 

[Vahid_shoaleh]

Moissanite can only be cut with diamond and I can buy small quantitiesof 6.5mm amazing cut Moissy for $10 each.

And those Moissanite do not have specific designed cut

I agree that LGD with regular cut will have lower prices

1ct sunflower moissanite white round

1.0ct white Sunflower Cut loose moissanite diamond

www.wztygems.com

This piece does not have an exclusive patented cut design

Why not? Did you ask?

They just work with LGD although they may customize to natural material in a special situation

They sell 1ct LGD for thousend dollars , just imagine the natural price

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

My lab-grown diamond is, of course, real, and it’s high-quality.

Ahh this is where it gets interesting.

Let's say a 2 ct blue unheated sapphire in the best cornflower colour costs $3000
A lab version would cost $300
I don't buy diamonds so I don't know how much a natural one costs these days but your lab diamond is close to the $300 perfect lab cornflower sapphire.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I think if someone's budget were say $7k and they wanted an Erika Winters or Leon Mege setting, that setting alone would use up the vast majority of their budget. Some people would rather have the overall look than a natural diamond in a more basic setting. A lot of people in the colored stones section of PS spend far more on the settings to house the stones than they did on the stones themselves, and this could just be an extension of that for some people.

You could always pluck out the centre and stick in another stone too when you get sick of it. In this case I would be preserving the value in the setting.

Case in point my HIDEOUS "pink" zircon. I could just toss it like a lab diamond and stick in any other CS. Maybe one of higher value one day.

Not that my setting is worth that much but I agree with your post about settings as I am notorious for frufru settings.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ahh this is where it gets interesting.

Let's say a 2 ct blue unheated sapphire in the best cornflower colour costs $3000
A lab version would cost $300
I don't buy diamonds so I don't know how much a natural one costs these days but your lab diamond is close to the $300 perfect lab cornflower sapphire.

Lab sapphire cost is about $5

 

[WestchesterButterfly]

I think if someone's budget were say $7k and they wanted an Erika Winters or Leon Mege setting, that setting alone would use up the vast majority of their budget. Some people would rather have the overall look than a natural diamond in a more basic setting. A lot of people in the colored stones section of PS spend far more on the settings to house the stones than they did on the stones themselves, and this could just be an extension of that for some people.

This is me! I have my lab in a gorgeous EW setting. We could have went the natural route, especially with the lower prices these days. However we are also in the throes of private school tuition, 529 plans, kids activities etc. it feels more prudent to keep more money in the bank right now.


However, with that said, I would not be opposed when our expenses are not-so-high in the future swapping out the lab stone with a natural stone. When it comes to handing down a piece of jewelry to the next generation, I do prefer natural. Again, a fan of both.

At the end of the day jewelry should be for the wearer no matter what anyone else thinks. I know some may see my ring as costume because it has a lab and that’s ok. But it’s special to me and I enjoy wearing it.

 

[maryjane04]

At the end of the day jewelry should be for the wearer no matter what anyone else thinks. I know some may see my ring as costume because it has a lab and that’s ok. But it’s special to me and I enjoy wearing it.

That's it. Enjoy your jewellery. We all appreciate jewellery and that's why we're here.

If it makes you feel better, people probably think my diamonds are costume jewellery too. I don't wear makeup or designer bags etc. I am not very fashionable or fancy and my go to look right now is disheveled in maternity/nursing clothes. So probably anything I wear is assumed costume jewellery.

 

[hiratop]

They just work with LGD although they may customize to natural material in a special situation

They sell 1ct LGD for thousend dollars , just imagine the natural price

According to their website they offer all cuts with natural and LG diamonds. Of course the price is accordingly. I have a natural decagon from them. No problem, just a long waiting time as with LGDs.