National Gemological Laboratories?

[dancingmelimel]

Has anyone here heard of National Gemological Laboratories, Inc.? I can''t seem to find any info on them, but a jeweler I am considering buying from offers a certificate from them.

Thanks for any info!

-Melissa

 

[niceice]

NEVER heard of them... With GIA and AGS graded diamonds being so prominent in the market, why would you consider anything else?

 

[el1jones]

I've heard of them. I think it's based in NY and only grades diamonds for wholesale and retailers. I don't think any lab is as stringent as GIA, but I don't think they would still be around if they were not at least pretty accurate.

 

[huhgrace]

I have heard of them as the certificate offered by one of the diamond sellers on Ebay.

I don't know much about them. In fact, I'm trying to find out how reliable buying diamond rings on Ebay is.

 

[ProfessCutie]

Melissa!

I just read your posting... I have to say that I have never heard of NGL before until my fiance purchased my ring (which I received over the weekend via UPS). The ring was purchased in Ebay by Sheoa & Co. out of Manhattan. I immediately too the ring to a reputable jeweler here in Houston which was definitely appraised way beyond the price my fiance paid for and definitely matched what NGL appraised it for. I really can't say much about NGL besides whatever they stated on their appraisal certificate definitely matched another professional evaluation here in Houston. I hope this helps!! If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! I am completely satisified with my ring and the quality of it!

Yasmin

 

[ngale]

I think you should get your diamond checked out again. I bought a pair of earrings on ebay claiming the National Gemological Laboratories certificate but it never showed up. It was fraud on the highest scale. Police are involved and so on. Because of your posting, like me, many people would get SCREW so please be sure on what you are saying. If National Gemological Laboratories is legit, they would have a website. BEWARE.

 

[djm1965]

I believe National Gem Labs is the same person that has an office in Boston. We spoke a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned they have a few offices and covers a pretty wide area. He seemed to be doing a lot of appraisal work for certain local B&Ms as well as individual clients. He seemed knowledgeable but does not have any advanced equipment (Sarin, Bscope, etc).

 

[paradox_e]

I have used NGL many times and reffer many people to them. I have found them to be quite accurate and uphold a respectful reputation.Many of the stones I work with are certed by GIA, however, a stone cirted by GIA is generally very close to the same statistice given by NGL. The only differance I''ve noticed is in some cases GIA rates more conservitavely then NGL. Hope that helps some.
Jesse

 

[JohnQuixote]

It''s great to see so many first time posters on PriceScope.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/23/2004 6:50:43 PM
Author: paradox_e
I have used NGL many times and reffer many people to them. I have found them to be quite accurate and uphold a respectful reputation.Many of the stones I work with are certed by GIA, however, a stone cirted by GIA is generally very close to the same statistice given by NGL. The only differance I''ve noticed is in some cases GIA rates more conservitavely then NGL. Hope that helps some.
Jesse

thats a good one......LOL AGS & GIA better look out, NGL is gonna put you out of business !!!!

 

[ten0ver]

I found this on the BlueNilediamond site but not National Gemological Lab.

Northwest Gemological Laboratory, Inc.
Northwest Gemological Laboratory, Inc. is a scientific, state-of-the-art gemological facility based in Bellevue, Washington. NGL has offered the legal, insurance, and jewelry industries accurate and detailed fine jewelry appraisals since 1978. NGL is dedicated to providing the highest quality service and does not buy or sell jewelry.
NGL appraisers have completed Graduate Gemologist training from the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). NGL appraisers have extensive knowledge of appraisal ethics and theory and a thorough understanding of the gemstone market.

NGL can be reached at:

Northwest Gemological Laboratory, Inc.
10801 Main Street, #105
Bellevue, Washington 98004
Telephone: (425) 454-5633 or (425) 455-0985
Fax: (425) 454-3088

 

[lauriek]

I purchased some earrings from ebay and they came with an NGL cert. Not worth the paper its printed on! I didn''t even have to take the earrings to get proffesionally examined. Diamonds were supposed to be SI2 and eye clean which is what the cert showed. One diamond was chiped next to a mounting post and the other had a huge black inclusion right in the centre spanning almost the entire table! The girdle was also much thinner on one side of the diamond!

Same old adage, if a deal sounds too good to be true then it usually is!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 11/23/2004 6:50:43 PM
Author: paradox_e
I have used NGL many times and reffer many people to them. I have found them to be quite accurate and uphold a respectful reputation.Many of the stones I work with are certed by GIA, however, a stone cirted by GIA is generally very close to the same statistice given by NGL. The only differance I''ve noticed is in some cases GIA rates more conservitavely then NGL. Hope that helps some.
Jesse

Yes it is interesting that so many posters are 1st timers.

One might tend to believe the posters who had bad experiances.

Paradox would you like to indicate why we should trust you?

 

[oldminer]

Unfortunately, an unknown appraiser or unknown appraisal firm is not to be trusted any more than an unknown vendor or seller on e-bay. Even if a lab gets a positive comment from someone we must look at the person making the comment and how reliable they are likely to be. What do we know about the people who say "beware" or "okay"....Very little.

So, be careful. There are many legitimate appraisers and labs in existence and a large number of nearly worthless ones, too. You must learn to be sophisticated and discriminating enough to use reliable places based on solid information, not hearsay. If you are going to have an expert testify in court, you get one that is credible. The same rule applies to a lab or to an appraiser. Use one you would want to be your expert in court. Don''t rush to judgement when it comes to honesty and expertise, no more than rushing into a major purchase.

 

[DiamondLuver]

I purchased a couple of items on eBay this Christmas and ordered the NGL Certificates. Both items were very expensive and my local jeweler as well as an independant GIA Gemologist said the diamonds and the grades were represented accurately and that the NGL Certificates we professional. I do realize that the GIA is the difinitive source for grading, but EGL, IGI, and NGL offer an affordable solution. I will buy again NGL certified diamonds.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I had never heard of NGL until I received an estate piece as a gift that came with an NGL Cert a couple of years ago. A circa 1920''s gypsy style platinum ring channel set with round diamonds and princess cut emeralds. I had the ring independently evaluated by a local appraiser who agreed with the NGL evaluation of the ring (both appraisals were graded "as mounting permits"), but disagreed with the NGL replacement value. The local appraiser felt the value was a bit generous for our market. But since NGL is in Washington, my appraiser felt the value might be more appropriate for their location.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/8/2004 8:51:30 AM
Author: oldminer
Unfortunately, an unknown appraiser or unknown appraisal firm is not to be trusted any more than an unknown vendor or seller on e-bay. Even if a lab gets a positive comment from someone we must look at the person making the comment and how reliable they are likely to be. What do we know about the people who say ''beware'' or ''okay''....Very little.

So, be careful. There are many legitimate appraisers and labs in existence and a large number of nearly worthless ones, too. You must learn to be sophisticated and discriminating enough to use reliable places based on solid information, not hearsay. If you are going to have an expert testify in court, you get one that is credible. The same rule applies to a lab or to an appraiser. Use one you would want to be your expert in court. Don''t rush to judgement when it comes to honesty and expertise, no more than rushing into a major purchase.

Seems that if the NGL people, if they are the same in NY and Wash, that their gradings are obviously inconsistent with each other given the reports posted by various consumers.

Dave is certainly correct on checking out labs and appraisers. Too many times consumer buy poor or incompetent work ( being polite as many are fraudulent) .

Interetingly enough, I spoke to Neil the other day on the phone and he commonly see counterfeit lab reports. Can''t say I''ve seen this, but stay with those who have reputations,credentials, and experience. Sure they may cost more, but worth it in the long run.

APPRAISE THE APPRAISER !!!!!!!

Rockdoc

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Give a blind man a gun, 1000 bullets and put a target in front of him- he''s bound to hit it once or twice.

The folks who claim they got accurate results might be part of this category, or as has been suggested here, they might be trying to shore up the reputation of a lab for commercial, and hidden reasons


The overwhelming evidence is that these "third tier" labs- such as the subject of this thread are simply un-reliable.
Furthermore, any jeweler reccomending someone waste $35 to prove that the seller is giving what he promised- well you might as well simply flush the $35 down the toilet- the results will be far more reliable- at least you know where your money went!


Someone mentioned Northwest Gemological Laboratory, Inc.- my post does not refer to them, I have no knowledge of them.

 

[denverappraiser]

Northwest Gemological Inc. is an appraisal firm in the Seattle area and they are NOT the same company being discussed in this thread. Northwest is a reputable company and are not related to the NY group with the same acronym.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[pqcollectibles]

Date: 12/31/2004 7:14:58 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Northwest Gemological Inc. is an appraisal firm in the Seattle area and they are NOT the same company being discussed in this thread. Northwest is a reputable company and are not related to the NY group with the same acronym.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

That''s the firm that did the appraisal of the estate piece I have, Neil.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 12/31/2004 9:50

0 PM
Author: pqcollectibles

Date: 12/31/2004 7:14:58 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Northwest Gemological Inc. is an appraisal firm in the Seattle area and they are NOT the same company being discussed in this thread. Northwest is a reputable company and are not related to the NY group with the same acronym.

Neil Beaty
Independent Appraisals in Denver

That''s the firm that did the appraisal of the estate piece I have, Neil.

Can you scan their report and post it here? Then we can commment on it.

Rockdoc

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hopefully it''s readable. I had a hard time resizing it to fit in PS file size constraints. This isn''t all of the appraisal. There''s a key at the bottom along with a general statement of how the grading was done. And even more info on the back side of the page. We''ll see what shows.

 

[Jodi]

I''m researching them too. One quick web search and I got the web address for National Gemological Laboratories. Here it is: http://www.natgemlab.com/pages/1/index.htm National Gemological Laboratories, Inc. 132 West 36th Street, 8th Floor New York, NY 10018 Phone : (212) 764-1579 Email: [email protected] So, they seem legitamite. They say there are about 10 graders out there, and this seems to be one of them. None as known as GIA and EGL, but a local jeweler told me most of them are being graded by computers/intruments now to be more acurate and less "human" opinion. He says GIA is the only one that is resistent to switching...they''re sticking with the humans. Don''t know if this is true or not.

As for me, I''m looking at a ring from Shenoa too...and looking around the web and locally for a 3ct H VVS or VS. At Shenoa, the lady on the line said the same ring we''re looking at would be like 8K more if it were in the brick and morter location, which they do have in NY, and if it were GIA. Does it cost that much more to be graded by GIA? I''ve heard that some cutters want to sell thier stone quickly and don''t want to wait the months it takes to get their diamond through GIA...is this true?

 

[denverappraiser]

Jodi,

Welcome to Pricescope. You've got some things in your post that probably diserve review.

They say there are about 10 graders out there, and this seems to be one of them. None as known as GIA and EGL,

There are hundreds. Many are very skilled and are quite large while others only have one or two graders. There are probably more than 10 within a block of the address you just gave.

... but a local jeweler told me most of them are being graded by computers/intruments now to be more acurate and less 'human' opinion. He says GIA is the only one that is resistent to switching...they're sticking with the humans. Don't know if this is true or not.

This is not true. There is a new computer grading system that is about the enter the market called Imagem but it's not available yet and it's not known how repeatable it is. I'm sure that the progress will be reported here if you check back for updates. Unless 'instruments' includes things like microscopes, scales and electric lighting, none of the major labs are using automated equipment for clarity or color measurements. Most don't do cut grading at all. I'm not sure what he might be talking about here but humans have definitely not been replaced. Stay tuned...

... the same ring we're looking at would be like 8K more if it were in the brick and morter location, which they do have in NY, and if it were GIA.

Each store sets their own prices. Are they trying to quote the prices of their competition or their own storefront? If they are refering to their competitors, I would question their sources and determine precicely which store they are discussing. If their own retail outlet in NY costs $8k more, I wouldn't recommend shopping at that office.

... and if it were GIA. Does it cost that much more to be graded by GIA?&nbsp

GIA reports cost about $100-$200 depending on the stone size. There are competitive labs that will work for considerably less money. GIA stones also sell for a slight premium because of the GIA reputation. There is a study here that discusses the price variations between 3 different labs. It doesn't include the one you're considering but it has a pretty good discussion of how and why the variations work.

... I've heard that some cutters want to sell thier stone quickly and don't want to wait the months it takes to get their diamond through GIA...is this true?

Sure. Time is money and GIA is decidedly slow. They take 6-8 weeks. At 12% interest, a two month delay is worth 2%. It's very annoying and decidedly a selling point for the competitive labs. Then again, if the stones sell faster when they come back because they have GIA paper, some of this is earned back. It's a strategic decision for the cutters and they make it very carefully. 2% can turn into big money.

I hope this all helped. Best of luck with your search,

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[muzzman]

$1,8000 is a strange appraisal, pqcollectibles. Does it mean $18,000 or $1,800?

 

[ademello]

National Gemological Laboratory grades and appraises jewelry, diamonds and colored stones both in house as well as with a travel laboratory and sepecializes in while you wait appraisal both to the consumer as well as items submitted for inspection by members of the jewelry and Insurance Community. Arthur DeMello Jr. is the principle graduate gemologist (GIA) with training from American Gem Society as well as undergraduate studies from University of Massachusetts and Harvard University. Art services many banks, insurance companies, police departments and individuals and has for 23 years. Art has provided expert information for consumer protection, government and state officials. Members of the New England Patriots and The Boston Red Sox. Art has also been active in Instrument design with GIA GEM Instruments. Main office is located in the Regency Tower 16th Floor 800 Pleasant Street New Bedford, Massachusetts. We Service the entire Northeast including Boston, New York City and Philadelphia. Please dont confuse us with other individuals that may be using The National Name. We are registered trade mark with The State of New York.

Thank You for your interest in our Company.

 

[denverappraiser]

Art,

Welcome to pricescope.

Is this National Gemological Laboratory the same company as yours? It looks rather like someone else entirely who is doing business under the same name. They are even in the same state. It sounds like you've got some paperwork to do with the secretary of state's office.

Neil Beaty
GG(GISA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[diamondsbylauren]

It''s great to see Art posting!


Let''s clear up the term "certified"
GIA does not "certify" diamonds. They examine the diamond and issue a report. Therefore the term "GIA certifed" is a misnomer.
However, a diamond with a GIA report is worth more than a diamond with an EGL or IG report. This is due to many reasons.
If we''re talking about a D/VS1, there''s simply no reason NOT to use GIA- even if they take 6 weeks and charge $500- the buyer of a 1.00 D/VS1 is not likely going to pay the premium without the GIA report- at the dealer lever, NO dealer is going to pay the same price for a dimaond graded D/VS1 by EGL as compared to one graded thusly by GIA.

So EGL and IGI are basically accepted by the trade at a level as less than GIA, but still talked about.
In time, possibly NGL will achieve the market acceptnce of EGL or IGI.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I inherited the ring from one of Hubby''s relatives. The paperwork for the estate says $1800 so I''m sure that''s a typo.

 

[compucadd1]

I bought two diamonds from Shenoa & Co in New York City with an NGL certificate that were supposed to be an "F" color and SI1. One was an "H" - I-2 (very visibly included) and the other was "J" instead of an F and an I-1. They were worth a fraction of what they were supposed to be worth. When I tried to talk to NGL, they said they could only deal with the stores that they did business with. BOTH SHENOA & NGL ARE NOT REPUTABLE. DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!