shape
carat
color
clarity

Narrowed down to 3 OECs! Opinions please!

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
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134
After hearing back from OWD, I may have my search narrowed down to 3 diamonds! Please let me know what your thoughts are:

Diamond #1:

CARAT WEIGHT: 1.12
COLOR: I
CLARITY: SI2
MEASURE: 6.63*6.56*4.18
DEPTH: 63
TABLE: 52
POLISH: Good
SYMMETRY: Good
GIRDLE: Thin to Medium
FLUORESCENCE: None
CULET: Small
EGL report: http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/certificates/A40263.JPG
Price: $3,648


Pros:
-Good polish, symmetry, spread, and culet size
-Highest color of the three
Cons:
-A little fluorescence would have been nice
-Small inclusion under the crown, but apparently eyeclean
-Not well-cut as Diamond #2

Diamond #2:
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.48
COLOR: L
CLARITY: SI2
MEASURE: 7.08*7.26*4.55
DEPTH: 63.5
TABLE: 46
POLISH: Good
SYMMETRY: Fair
GIRDLE: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
FLUORESCENCE: Faint
CULET: Large
GIA report:
Price: $4,900
Picture:
Pros:
-Large carat weight
-Per Adam, this diamond is extremely well-cut and looks like a "fireball", which is exactly what I want
-L color, but faces up white
-More eye-clean than Diamond #1
Cons:
-This diamond is at least $1500 above what I had hoped to spend on a diamond
-Girdle is very thin, which worries me because I wanted a six prong setting
-L color worries me because I want a white gold setting
-The measurements look more like a 1.25 carat diamond, or maybe symmetry is off

Diamond #3 (from mydiamondzone):
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.08
COLOR: J
CLARITY: VS1
MEASURE: 6.46*6.31*4.15
DEPTH: 65
TABLE: 46
POLISH: Good
SYMMETRY: Fair to Good
GIRDLE: Very Thin to Medium
FLUORESCENCE: None
CULET: Slightly Large
EGL report: http://images7.solidcommerce.com/sc7052417/Ebay_Photos/EGLresults/8283cert.jpg
Price: $3,395
Picture: http://images7.solidcommerce.com/sc7052417/Ebay_Photos/1/8283a.jpg
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feIl9vXfc6g&authuser=0

Pros:
-Lots of sparkle and well-cut according to Ilya
-Good clarity
-Good price
Cons:
-Slightly yellow in the video
-Very thin girdle, though Ilya said this would not be an issue with 6 prong settings
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Any advice will be appreciated! This search has dragged on much longer than I thought it would and to be honest I'm starting to feel rather stressed out, disenchanted, and demoralized. :( Hoping I can make some forward progress for once! :D

a40263.jpg

a45638.jpg
 

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sugarski

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
244
Hi, I will probably have more to say after I spend more time looking at the stones, but I just quickly want to point out that the first stone is an EGL I and the second stone is a GIA L. Because of the differences in the two labs, it's probably fair to say that the EGL I is much closer to a GIA K or even L, so to choose the first based on color may not make sense.

ETA: after looking at all three stones, I really think the second is the best choice. You DO want a fireball (the tiny table on that stone helps!) and the others just aren't as pretty. If it's out of budget, I would simply keep looking. As for the thin girdle, Adam can fix that for you if need be, but yeah, that will add a bit to the final cost.

ETA again: I'm sorry you're feeling demoralized. Have you contacted Erica from LAD or Grace from JbG? I am sure they would help you find something if you tell them your budget and exactly what you're looking for...
 

madelise

Ideal_Rock
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5,298
Has Adam made you a video of the first two? Those aren't the best pictures...
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I would ask Adam for a picture of all 3 of them together in one shot, face up. That will give you a relative idea of color difference.
You need to be able to decide what your color tolerance is. A 7mm L would work for me but its not for everyone.

I really cant recommend one stone over the other for you because I'm not sure what color you can live with. Are you more interested
in size over color? Is the extra $1500 going to affect you?
 

camomof4

Rough_Rock
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64
Can you see them in person somehow? I wouldn't want to buy an OEC without seeing it first. The advice given to me on this board was sound - see multiple stones before deciding.
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
2,141
That appears to have a pretty steep pavilion and shallow crown for an OEC.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 27, 2015
Messages
134
Emailed Adam regarding the girdle and he said,
"There is nothing to worry about regarding the girdle. It can be set anyway you like!" Kind of leaning toward diamond two, though I question if I can find a comparable diamond for a lower price. Thoughts?
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
134
Tourmaline|1444845962|3938226 said:
That appears to have a pretty steep pavilion and shallow crown for an OEC.

Is that bad? What measurements should I be looking for? Thank you so much!
 

SunnyDelta

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
57
I agree with Tourmaline; for diamond #2 the crown looks too shallow and the pavilion relatively too deep.
To answer your question "is that bad?"....maybe/maybe not.....but the proportions are a red flag and like others have suggested you would need to see the stone in person to judge how it performs.

I can sense your wanting to wrap this thing up, but I would urge you to keep looking. I did notice a few diamonds just a hair above and below the one carat mark on both the JBG and LAD sites that appear to be better cut than your three contenders. However, they are pushing the upper limit of your budget and their spreads are smaller than the diamond #2....which I suspect is why they haven't made your list. If I were pressed for time, I would lean towards a slightly smaller, but better cut stone.
 

Tourmaline

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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PumpkinsAreAwesome|1444847581|3938239 said:
Tourmaline|1444845962|3938226 said:
That appears to have a pretty steep pavilion and shallow crown for an OEC.

Is that bad? What measurements should I be looking for? Thank you so much!

They vary, but the best and most characteristic OECs have a high crown and more shallow pavilion. Take a look at the dimensions of August Vintage Round diamonds on Good Old Gold's site. They are ideal cut for optics (light performance).

I also can see the inclusion in the 1.48 pretty easily in the video.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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I can see the inclusion in the 1.48 in the photo above easily too, did Adam say it was eye clean? I'd probably pick a smaller cleaner stone personally. I know SI2 stones are budget friendly but if they are not eye clean to a fussy eye and you do end up seeing something in the stone every day is that going to bother you?
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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arkieb1|1444872192|3938374 said:
I can see the inclusion in the 1.48 in the photo above easily too, did Adam say it was eye clean? I'd probably pick a smaller cleaner stone personally. I know SI2 stones are budget friendly but if they are not eye clean to a fussy eye and you do end up seeing something in the stone every day is that going to bother you?

Just got home from work and had a change to watch the video on a big screen. I can see the inclusion as well. :( However, Adam said that the stone is eyeclean and that I shouldn't worry about the small girdle. He also said that this stone is like a fireball and in his opinion a much nicer diamonds than any of the ones I've asked about from his site.

Part of me is scared that I won't be able to find another diamond of this size, color, and fire at this price. However, it is $1500 higher than what I had hoped to spend on a diamond, and I am frustrated that I wasn't really given other options to pick from (along with an initial slow response time, which has improved in recent days as I've started calling daily).

I've looked at/e-mailed JBG and LAD, but there isn't really anything in my price range and criteria right now. I'm willing to up my budget to $4500 for a larger stone, but not for a smaller one.

Am I hoping for to much for too little? I am so sad right now. :(
 

sugarski

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
244
I hope I'm not making this worse, but have you checked eBay? You could search for "Old European Diamond", then refine by returns accepted, then look especially at the listings that have a lot of people watching, which, arguably, means the eBay diamond experts are seeing something in those stones. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly people here would help you if you wanted to try that method?

For instance, this is over your budget, but the main diamond really looks like a pretty stone to me (again, not an expert) and it's over a carat:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291561271546?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You could make an offer...

ETA: and an AVR is guaranteed to be a beautiful stone. http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-01ct-m-vs1-august-vintage-round-diamond.html
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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sugarski|1444880889|3938410 said:
I hope I'm not making this worse, but have you checked eBay? You could search for "Old European Diamond", then refine by returns accepted, then look especially at the listings that have a lot of people watching, which, arguably, means the eBay diamond experts are seeing something in those stones. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly people here would help you if you wanted to try that method?

For instance, this is over your budget, but the main diamond really looks like a pretty stone to me (again, not an expert) and it's over a carat:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291561271546?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You could make an offer...

ETA: and an AVR is guaranteed to be a beautiful stone. http://www.goodoldgold.com/ecommerce/1-01ct-m-vs1-august-vintage-round-diamond.html

Thanks for the ebay link! I'll start checking there and may get in touch with diamondzone again.

Another reason I want an estate diamond is for ethical purposes, so not sure and AVR would meet my criteria for that. It does look gorgeous though.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
134
I'm obviously overthinking this, but at this point what scares me is that I won't be able to find another diamond of that size, color, and apparent "fireball' attributes for under $5000. Any PSers have have luck finding a decent 1.48 ct OEC for under $5k?

Another reason I was thinking estate was for the price, but it's as if I can go on Blue Nile and get a J SI2 RB with 6.8 diameter for less than $4000.

:wall:
 

Diamondz1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
142
Hi Pumpkins, sorry you're having so much trouble! I think you will find something so, hang in there.

Regarding finding a similar stone at/under $5K, can you reach out to the vendors you're working with and ask if it's even possible to obtain the specs you want at $5K? They may be able to say whether or not that's achievable, at which point it either becomes a waiting game for the right stone, or a question of whether you want to up your budget, or lower your specs.

If you're on the fence about stone #2, can you have it shipped so that you can see it in person? That might help you decide whether it's go-over-budget beautiful or nice-but-not-quite-right beautiful.

I have a cushion from Adam and I went to see as many stones as possible but I ended up with the first one he recommended, lol. He has a good eye and I'd trust him, as well as the other vendors you mentioned Erica/Grace/etc., to pick out your best option. But I totally hear you about wanting to see everything, maybe he could send you more options for comparison?

Oh and also, it may be worth trying to negotiate the price on #2 - it never hurts to try! Especially if price is your main obstacle on that stone, maybe something can be done.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Diamondz1|1444927158|3938604 said:
Hi Pumpkins, sorry you're having so much trouble! I think you will find something so, hang in there.

Regarding finding a similar stone at/under $5K, can you reach out to the vendors you're working with and ask if it's even possible to obtain the specs you want at $5K? They may be able to say whether or not that's achievable, at which point it either becomes a waiting game for the right stone, or a question of whether you want to up your budget, or lower your specs.

If you're on the fence about stone #2, can you have it shipped so that you can see it in person? That might help you decide whether it's go-over-budget beautiful or nice-but-not-quite-right beautiful.

I have a cushion from Adam and I went to see as many stones as possible but I ended up with the first one he recommended, lol. He has a good eye and I'd trust him, as well as the other vendors you mentioned Erica/Grace/etc., to pick out your best option. But I totally hear you about wanting to see everything, maybe he could send you more options for comparison?

Oh and also, it may be worth trying to negotiate the price on #2 - it never hurts to try! Especially if price is your main obstacle on that stone, maybe something can be done.

Thanks for the advice! I'll see if Adam will negotiate. However, I spoke to my boyfriend again and he is not really thrilled with the price and thinks that $4500 is still too high. In terms of specs, I can drop down to a 1-1.25 diamond (with diameter of 6.5+).

I may have to just start over and tell Adam that the budget is a strict $3000-$4000. This would avoid domestic disputes at home over a diamond!
 

Diamondz1

Shiny_Rock
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"I may have to just start over and tell Adam that the budget is a strict $3000-$4000. This would avoid domestic disputes at home over a diamond!"

Haha! So true. There's nothing wrong with sticking to the budg. Something is out there for you!
 

sugarski

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
244
PumpkinsAreAwesome|1444921976|3938563 said:
I'm obviously overthinking this, but at this point what scares me is that I won't be able to find another diamond of that size, color, and apparent "fireball' attributes for under $5000. Any PSers have have luck finding a decent 1.48 ct OEC for under $5k?

The answer is yes: http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/1-ct-to-2-00/1-48ct-old-european-cut-diamond-ags-m-vs1#.ViAib3pViko

So I think if you can hang in there, you WILL find something. :)
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Update!

So I e-mailed back all the vendors letting them know about my strict budget and a few of them offered some new options:

Diamond #4: From Old World Diamonds
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.07
COLOR: K
CLARITY: SI2
MEASURE: 6.51*6.59*3.87
DEPTH: 59.1
TABLE: 50
POLISH: Good
SYMMETRY: Fair
GIRDLE: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
FLUORESCENCE: None
CULET: Slightly Large
GIA report:
Price: $3950


Diamond #5: From mydiamondzone
CARAT WEIGHT: 1.18
COLOR: I
CLARITY: SI3 (according to Ilya it's 100% eyeclean)
MEASURE: 7.1m diameter
DEPTH: 66
TABLE: 44
POLISH: Forgot to ask
SYMMETRY: Forgot to ask
GIRDLE: Thin to Medium
FLUORESCENCE: None
CULET: Forgot to ask
EGL report: None yet. Ilya just bought this diamond and was going to send it to EGL for grading.
Price: $3,900


Other recommendations from mydiamondzone:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16ct-OLD-EUROPEAN-CUT-DIAMOND-COLOR-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-VINTAGE-ROUND-LOOSE-OE-/401010352956?hash=item5d5e14633c
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-13ct-OLD-EURO-CUT-DIAMOND-EGL-USA-CERTIFIED-SI1-1ct-ROUND-LOOSE-ENGAGEMENT-/171967795062?hash=item280a144f76


After once again having a chat with my boyfriend, I think I have an idea of what I really want from an OEC:
CARAT WEIGHT: Anything above 1 or above 6.5mm in diameter
COLOR: I and above (maybe J/K GIA)
CLARITY: Doesn't matter as long as it's eyeclean
MEASURE: Anything greater than 6.5mm
DEPTH: Doesn't matter as long the diamond looks like a fireball
TABLE: Doesn't matter as long as the diamond looks like a fireball
POLISH: Good and above
SYMMETRY: Good/fair and above
GIRDLE: Anything between Thin and Slightly Thick
FLUORESCENCE: Faint to Medium (I actually really really want a diamond with fluorescence. It seems so neat!)
CULET: None to Medium
Price: $3000-4000

Is this unrealistic? Should I lower my expectations?

a36829.jpg

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Veltiesmom

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Hi! It's a fun dilemma to have. But I can't see how you'll be able to decide without seeing the diamonds in person. Can you purchase both a a credit card and return the diamond you don't like? If that's not an option, can you purchase one at a time and then decide? I can tell you from my own experience that seeing them in person versus in photos/videos is a whole different ball of wax.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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kathley

Brilliant_Rock
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You have a guaranteed performance, it is within your price range, and you have already been considering K color, plus the clarity is better than what you have looked at. You can always add a halo to boost the finger coverage if you desire.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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I am so ready to jump on this AVR, but the fact that it's 6mm in diameter bugs me. How much smaller would this look compared to a 1ct that is 6.4-6.5mm?

In terms of setting I'm thinking of a white gold 6-prong petite setting and hoping the AGS K isn't too yellow and closer to an EGL I or J.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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I think what you need to do is prioritise what is most important to you. Some people want performance only in that case the AVR and indeed a standard well cut RB would tick all the boxes, colour might be a priority, eye clean ie clarity might be a priority, some people care less about the colour and go for a larger stone.

You can add a bezel, a halo or indeed upgrade the stone in the future if you want bigger. Other shaped diamonds although they have very different sparkle patterns like ovals and marquise also give better finger coverage mm wise that that might be another option.

Have you emailed Erica from Love Affair Diamonds? Pester Erica and pester Grace, ask if they have any white facing Ls that are SI stones that are eyeclean coming up - that is probably going to buy you the most value for your $$$$s if size is the main priority.
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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arkieb1|1445131886|3939426 said:
I think the issue as with many posters is you want a 1.50 carat stone on a less than 1.00 carat stone budget. So what you need to do is prioritise what is most important to you. Some people want performance only in that case the AVR and indeed a standard well cut RB would tick all the boxes, colour might be a priority, eye clean ie clarity might be a priority, some people care less about the colour and go for a larger stone.

You can add a bezel, a halo or indeed upgrade the stone in the future if you want bigger. Other shaped diamonds although they have very different sparkle patterns like ovals and marquise also give better finger coverage mm wise that that might be another option.

Have you emailed Erica from Love Affair Diamonds? Ask if she has any white facing Ls that are SI stones that are eyeclean coming up - that is probably going to buy you the most value for your $$$$s

What I'm looking for is a stone that's at least 6.5mm, which would be a 1 carat stone unless I'm wrong. Nowhere did I mention that I wanted a 1.5 carat stone, though several vendors have offered me options that are above my budget or eyeclean SI3 clarity (which I'm considering). Am in the process of emailing LAD with new criteria and awaiting responses from OWD and JBG.

This AVR looks promising, but the measurements make it look more like a .75 ct diamond than the .89 it is. I'd jump on this deal, but I'm wondering how much smaller a 6mm is compared to a 6.5mm, considering the cut of this AVR.

The other part of me still wants an OEC with fluorescence, too. Decisions, decisions.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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The problem with OECs is they are deeper than RBs and therefore face up smaller mm wise. Something like a transitional might be a better fit for you because you get a more spready stone but with an old cut pattern.

I think despite it being frustrating patience is the key, there are a limited supply of old cut stones so many posters have to wait to find the right one for them. I think it would be worthwhile to wait and see if Erica and Grace come back with anything new.

Most SI3s these days are I1 stones. An eyeclean SI2 or better should probably be the bottom limit of what you are looking for clarity wise, unless its an uber clean I1....

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/rings/vintage-antique/82ct-transitional-cut-diamond-vintage-illusion-ring-gia-h-vs2#.ViMFFigVq5Q

And if you would settle for a modern cut and something outside the box, cutting the back bails of this and putting a shank on it to make it a ring instead of a pendant would also provide someone with a very nice ring;

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/gallery/pendants-necklaces/70ct-round-brilliant-leo-diamond-halo-pendant#.ViMGFygVq5Q

Looking at brooches and pendants on Ebay might be another way to find a decent stone that has been overlooked, other than that I am sure Grace, Erica and Adam will come up with options.

And the August Vintage stone could still be a contender if you put it into a bezel or a halo you would get the mms you want because it will optically make the stone appear larger. I watched the video, it's a beautiful stone hard to beat performance wise if you made them an offer you might have more for the setting.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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The size difference between 6-6.5 is noticeable, but an AVR is (imo) kind of a pinacle of the cut! I would probably hold out though.
Photo below is on size 5 w/ 2mm band.

2015-10-17_20-55-41.png
 

PumpkinsAreAwesome

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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arkieb1 said:
Looking at brooches and pendants on Ebay might be another way to find a decent stone that has been overlooked, other than that I am sure Grace, Erica and Adam will come up with options.

Thank you for the pendant tip! I never considered the idea of converting pendants into rings. Pretty neat!

telephone89 said:
The size difference between 6-6.5 is noticeable, but an AVR is (imo) kind of a pinacle of the cut! I would probably hold out though.
Photo below is on size 5 w/ 2mm band.

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2015-10-17_20-55-41.png

Thank you for the picture! Eeep, the 6.0 is noticeably smaller than the 6.5. As gorgeous as the AVR is, I'm not sure I'm ready to settle for a smaller stone just yet, and don't really want a halo or bezel style. Hoping that with some patience, I'll be able to find that elusive antique diamond with lots of fire!
 
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