Nanny Contract Help - Overnight and Travel

[JGator]

Hi, we are hiring a live out nanny who is starting later this week, and we are putting together our contract/agreement. Mia, I am hoping you see this as you used to be a nanny. We have put together a 6-page detailed contract/work agreement, but I wanted to get an idea on Travel and Overnights.

There is a good chance we will need our nanny to work overnight every few months if both my husband and I are travelling for work at the same time. This would be rare and would only be 1 night at a time. We are planning to pay regular time for the first 40 hours and time and a half for overtime, but I don't think we should have to pay the overtime for every hour after the first 8 overnight since she should be able to sleep for some of the time. My DH was thinking we pay our regular rate for the first 8 hours and then an overnight lump sum. I have also read you can pay regular time, then overtime until the baby falls asleep and then a smaller overnight fee. What do you think is reasonable?

If we ever decide to take a vacation and bring the nanny (not sure we will, but just in case), do we just pay her the regular rate for any hours worked while on vacation (typical work week) and then cover all meals and travel expenses? Or, do we need a bonus for coming on vacation with us?

Thanks for any input.

 

[megumic]

Hi JGator, I used to nanny. I did not have a contract, but here are my two cents.

For overnights, I would just make it a lump sum for each overnight that is in addition to her normal salary or hourly rate. For example, if she gets $500/week, in a week that she has one overnight she would get $500 plus the "overnight fee" - whatever that is. If you are paying hourly, then I would pay hourly up until the typical hour you return home, and then throw the overnight rate on top of that. I think chopping it down to hours is kind of silly and it should just be an overnight rate.

As for vacations, when I went away with the family as a nanny, they obviously paid for all of my expenses and paid me a daily rate. I believe it was $200/day, which was in NYC several years ago.

I don't think an hourly rate makes sense for vacation or overnights b/c it's a different situation and your needs are different b/c while she is "on" the whole time, baby is asleep for part of that and she is likely relaxing for part of it, even though she is on your time. KWIM??

Hope that helps. I'm currently job searching and may be turning to you for advice on a nanny agreement once I find employment!

 

[JGator]

Thanks, Meg. I will be happy to help with your contract when the time comes, and good luck finding a new job! My husband scoured the internet and combined things from a bunch of samples into our contract.

 

[Kunzite]

Jgator & meg, can I threadjack for a minute? Can you tell me why you chose a nanny over daycare? I'm hoping to start work again around the time the twins are one and I'm really torn. For O I'd really like him in daycare for the interaction, but for the twins I'd prefer a nanny. Both isn't an option financially. I really, really can't decide.

 

[JGator]

Kunzite, I chose a live out nanny over daycare for several reasons. It is more expensive though...but you might do okay financially with 3 kids. I heard the incremental cost with a nanny is not much more for additional kids ($1-$2 per hour per kid).

1) My husband travels for work 4 days/week, and I work from home. If we did daycare, I would have to drop off and pick up myself 4 days/week which would cut into my work hours commuting to/from daycare. Working from home, I can maximize the hours worked and not worry about time driving to/from daycare. Most of my peers in my job have nannies also so it seems like a good fit with my particular job situation.

2) Our baby is only 3 months old and I would have a hard time leaving her with someone completely outside my watch. Particularly since I work from home, I have that flexibility to see my daughter during the day which also could be difficult when she gets a little older and doesn't understand why I have to work instead of playing with her if she can see me.

3) We have no family nearby, and we may need overnight care randomly so that would not be something we could get from a daycare.

I do plan to put K in pre-school when she turns 3 for interaction with others and structure/educational reasons. I have not figured out yet how that will work. Ie, if I want to do part-time pre-school and keep a part-time nanny at that point or just go full-time pre-school.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

I was a nanny (live-in, contracted, paid on the books, referred through an agency...the whole 9 yards).

I agree that the standard weekly rate for normal hours worked and then an overnight rate should be outlined in the contract--but be very clear about weekends (there should be a day rate for weekends that is likely 1.5x whatever you agree is a reasonable hourly rate based on the weekly salary, as well as the overnight rate).

As for overnights, although your nanny can sleep during the night, she is also in charge and still caring for your children. If one is up vomiting all night, she's not sleeping, if one is teething and can't sleep, or needs a nighttime bottle, or...she's still working...and even if she is sleeping, she's on standby for all of those situations.

Be clear about this, be generous, and at least the first time you go away, have a conversation with the nanny to make sure that you are all clear and comfortable with your understanding of what was agreed in the contract and what the expectations will be.

When I was a nanny, the family I worked for (a big time CEO and his wife who had 3 young children) and I ended on a less than ideal note when we had different interpretations of what the contract language meant regarding overnights (they thought that the overnight rate was instead of any weekend pay and I thought it was additive...the language was really not that vague in the contract, but it was just vague enough for 21 year old me to accept what to me was a substantially smaller amount of money and not discuss it further--but I was really unhappy and it made my final weeks of employment very uncomfortable at least for me).

Kunzite-here are my nanny pros and cons (and if we had more money or lived in a less expensive nanny market, we would totally have a nanny for B and especially when we have more children)...but every child is different and every nanny is different and every daycare is different...so, it all depends

1. A nanny allows a child to stay in the calm environment of your own home (my son feels much MUCH more comfortable being at home)
2. A nanny is more flexible (can be there when your child is sick, take them to the Dr, run errands--if agreed upon in advance, have playdates with children/experiences you really want your child to have)
3. A nanny can help with some household tasks (if agreed upon in advance), especially kids laundry and dishes, and sweeping up after the kids, cleaning highchairs, etc.
4. You don't have to worry about pick-up and drop off (no bundling kids up, making sure they have spare clothes, packing diaper bags, buckling into car seats, making one more stop along the way...)

There are some negatives too, namely what is your back-up care if the nanny is sick...but having a good nanny would simplify our life a lot, especially if we had multiple children

 

[JGator]

Bella, thanks for the input. We will definitely be clear about weekends, and I do agree she may have to work at night so I don't want to make the overnight rate too low to cover for that.

Kunzite, another reason we are going with a nanny over day care is that I think K is more likely to get sick than our nanny. Ie, if K is sick we cannot take her to daycare, but the nanny will still come. If the nanny gets sick (we are including 5 paid sick days in the contract), I will just have to take a day off or get a backup provider.

 

[Kunzite]

Thank you Bella & Jgator!! Those are mostly the same reasons I lean towards a nanny. To be honest my only hang up at the moment is that O is going through a huge social anxiety phase. Everyone loves to say it's because he's home with me all day ( ) but I'm inclined to think it's a phase. The truth is that if I knew for a fact it was a phase I wouldn't hesitate on the nanny, but if it really is because he's at home I would put him in daycare ASAP. Sorry, didn't mean to get so far off topic, you just solidified my thinking!

 

[mia1181]

I'm glad to see that you already got a lot of good replies. I agree with the others that and lump sum for the overnights and traveling makes the most sense. As Bella explained, you don't want to get in a situation where she is paid a discounted rate and then it is awkward when she has to stay up all night with a sick kid at a lower hourly rate. If you think about it, that time where she is up all night would be worth a lot more to her. Of course you could always work into the contract a clause for if something like that would come up. I think you find a fair amount in between if she was up all night and if she slept all night and then it kind of evens out. I always negotiated an "overnight fee" because I felt it was just easier for everyone involved. I also want to add that when I did overnights it was very hard for me to get any quality sleep even if the children slept fine. Because I knew I was in charge, I would wake up several times throughout the night just to check the monitors and make sure everything was okay. So even though I was free to sleep I was still working. One week of that was really hard, but I'm hoping that will prepare me for parenthood!

For traveling, my first family wanted to take me on vacations and just have me work my regular hours and pay me my regular salary. They felt that since they would cover my expenses and I would have my time off in an exotic location that I would be benefiting from a "free trip." I politely explained to them that I would still require a travel fee arrangement.
Some things most employers don't think of (and mine were awesome, they really weren't trying to take advantage of me, they just din't think about it):
When you take a nanny you are taking them to a place not of their choosing (our first trip was to Lake Tahoe and I am not a big skier, what was I going to do with my time off?).
Although they will be with you, time off will be alone, away from their own family (I personally get lonely, I know some nannies love to go and explore on their own, but not me).
Unless you pay for the nanny's own hotel room she will be with you a lot and sometimes will end up helping out when she is off duty.
If you do pay for her hotel room, then she will likely be sitting in it alone.
I'm not saying that nannies don't enjoy traveling with families, some of my best memories of "my girls" were time I spent with them on vacations. There definitely are some perks. But just make sure it really is as mutually beneficial as it seems. Just being in a nice place only goes so far when you are working most of the time and alone the rest of the time.
My employers and I usually renegotiated my fee depending on the trip since various factors would come into play (how long the trip was, what were my accommodations, my expected working hours, how far away from home we were, what activities/excursions I would participate in, etc). I think it makes most sense to write in the contract that vacation rates will be negotiated on a case by case basis.

Anyway, I can already tell that you guys are going to be very thoughtful employers! I think it's great that you are figuring this all out ahead of time. Feel free to ask other questions! It's great to see that there are other former nannies around here too!

 

[mia1181]

Thank you Bella & Jgator!! Those are mostly the same reasons I lean towards a nanny. To be honest my only hang up at the moment is that O is going through a huge social anxiety phase. Everyone loves to say it's because he's home with me all day ( ) but I'm inclined to think it's a phase. The truth is that if I knew for a fact it was a phase I wouldn't hesitate on the nanny, but if it really is because he's at home I would put him in daycare ASAP. Sorry, didn't mean to get so far off topic, you just solidified my thinking!

Kunzite,
How old is he? Have you checked to see if this is a normal developmental phase for his age? I think one of the biggest drawbacks to having a nanny is the lack of socialization with peers. Don't get me wrong a good nanny should be taking the children on playdates and regular social activities but with my last charge I really found her clinging to me in social situations. It got a lot worse to the point that I recommended that the family put her in daycare so that she could figure it out on her own. We found an excellent preschool and she is much more of a social butterfly now! We actually chose this unstructured family preschool over some more academically-focused ones because we really wanted her to have more time learning how to play with others than learning to read/write. It wasn't easy at first but now she is doing so well, I almost don't recognize her! Your son really could just be a phase though, especially depending on his age.

 

[Kunzite]

Mia, he just turned 2. Oh, and I want to clarify that my eye roll wasn't because I think these people are wrong about him being at home but because they say it in such an accusatory manner. It totally could be the lack of daycare! I really want to get him into proper preschool, but in my area he has to be PT and I don't see that happening any day soon!

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Yes, I think with a nanny being sure that they are proactive and scheduling playdates, activities, etc. is key. (or even taking O to a local preschool 3 half days a week...)

The last family I worked for was really overwhelmed by their children--they had a preschooler and infant twins--and the mom never.ever.ever. took all three anywhere, and would usually only leave the house with even two of the children if I was with her, but I frequently had all three out and about and on playdates and it was better for them and for me

I think the one big thing with nannies, especially live-in, but live out too (I did both) is that they may feel like part of your family, but they are not. They may genuinely love your children like crazy and take amazing care of them and end up being lifelong friends of your children and you, but when they are working for you, you are paying them for their services. There is a weird dichotomy there. Acknowledge it and be sensitive that when you are going on vacation and bringing them with you it is not vacation for them, it is overtime...no matter how exotic the location Traveling with families can be fun and special but it can also be lonely, isolating, and keep you away from your own family at important times/holidays.

I loved being a nanny and was fantastic, and still think very fondly of the children I cared for, but I wish that I had been a little more savvy at negotiating the working/compensation politics, especially when I was a live-in nanny.

 

[Kunzite]

Mia & Bella, you both mention the nanny getting the kids out. Does that mean that in a nanny search we'd have to narrow it down to candidates that have a car big enough? That seems awful limiting! Not to mention the expensive of providing three car seats (that I assume she wouldn't want permanently installed?). That seems very complicated!

Kudos to you Bella for getting them all out! That must be why you make the big $$$ I can see when they are infants and sleeping, but right now I always have someone napping. I have no idea how you did it! Am I missing something?!?

Jgator, I'm sorry for the TJ!!! I swear, I'm done. I should have just started my own thread!

 

[JGator]

Kunzite, no worries on the thread jack. I am happy that you were able to get some help from this thread too.

Thanks Bella, Mia, and Meg. Too bad K can't have one of you for her nanny! We emailed the agreement to the new nanny today and we'll go over it with her in person on Thursday - her first day of work. Hopefully, all will go well. I will keep you posted. We did do a trial run already so I have a good feeling this will work out well for everyone.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

For all the families I worked for, I drove their vehicles (almost always a Honda Odessey minivan Some of my friends who were nannies had cars that were exclusively theirs to drive, but I just drove my employers car when I was there--including preschool carpool for my first family where I drove their daughter, her friend, and the baby 3 days per week for pick-up.

All of the families added me to their auto insurance policy as an insured driver.

As far as getting out with the kids, I have always lived/worked in major cities or walkable suburbs, so in between naps we'd be out and about with the double stroller for the babies and a scooter for the preschooler, or sometimes running errands in the car.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

JG-good luck! Sounds like you have a great nanny and are all set.

I got out of the nanny game a long time ago but two graduate degrees, 3 cities, and 10 years later I still have fond and vivid memories of those 5 years. It can be a really special time for everyone!

 

[mia1181]

JGator It sounds like you are going to be a great nanny employer! Hope everything went well for you guys!

Kunzite Are you talking about a full time nanny? If so, yes it is best for the children and nanny to get outside the home for various reasons (mental stimulation, learning opportunities, etc.) I also think it's great for children to learn how to go along for "boring" errands with the nanny (i.e. learning to wait in line, learning manners in the community, learning about how money works, etc.). My former employers reimbursed me for using my own car. Legally they have to pay for gas and wear and tear according to a federally determined rate, but my bosses paid extra because the federal rate does not account for fluctuations in gas prices, etc. They did purchase 2 car seats that I left installed in my car (easier and safer). I drove a Corolla at the time but I only had 2 charges so there was enough room. But yes, to answer your question unless you live in a urban area, you do either have to find a nanny who's car is big enough or provide a car for them to use. It's also good to remember that it's good for the nanny to have a way to get the kids to the ER or urgent care in case something happened, instead of waiting for an ambulance. But if you are talking about a part time nanny, or babysitter, a car isn't as necessary.

As for getting the kids out. I don't know, I've always been more confident than my employers with managing both children in public. My boss would often have her mother come over to help on my days off and she would always ask me how I did it by myself. The answer is, I don't know, it just never bothered me. When I started my girls were 2 months old and 26 months, and the 26 month old had cerebral palsy so she behaved like an infant. I was pretty strict that naps should take place at home so I just worked the schedule around their naps (which never happened at the same time!). Also, the older girl had a lot of therapies both inside and outside of the home so a big part of my job was managing the children's schedules and making a lot of runs around town. I guess the key for me was planning and preparing for outings ahead of time.