my research re: Tiffany is different?

[iknowquinn]

Ok, we have been researching diamonds for a while now. We read and trust Fred Cuellar book "How to Buy a Diamond". What we are finding however, is that when you compare apples to apples- and all the angles are right, and the color and clarity are the same, as well as the carat weight...the price of a tiffany diamond is only nominally higher than from an independent dealer. and since i can tell an authentic tiffany setting from a mile way and HATE the copies....it is completely worth it to me to go to tiffanys. i just can''t understand why most of you disagree....i mean- i have done the research also. we are looking at an H VS2 2.75 for about 33k. and the price is the same at tiffanys as it is through an independent dealer

 

[Stephan]

very strong fluorescence?

 

[iknowquinn]

huh? i'm not sure what you were responding too. i guess that what i meant in a nutshell was that SURE- you can get a cheaper H, VS2 2.75 elsewhere- but for it to have to same fire and brilliance as the tiffany one....the only ones i've seen elsewhere were comparably priced. i don't understand why i see such anger about tiffany prices on these boards. my research has told me that when you are talking about such a top quality stone...the price variations at that point are minimal between tiffany and another dealer.

 

[Stephan]

Oh, no, I just want to say that at Tiffany, you will not have a lot of information about your diamond.
They only tell you it's beautiful.
I can't afford to go shopping there, but even if I could I would not.
I forgot, if you are looking for pair for studs, this diamond could be perfect, perhaps (I mean certainly) better looking than your Tiffany diamond. And there are enough documentation coming with this diamond to proove it.

Regards,

 

[iknowquinn]

my understanding is- when you are seriously ready to buy...tiffanys will absolutely provide you with the GIA cert as well as their own cert from their own labs. i won't buy without seeing the GIA cert.

 

[Stephan]

I don't know if you had a look at the link, but I don't believe that Tiffany will give you such details about your diamond.

 

[Daniela]

Disclaimer to the group: It's not Friday, but I can't resist.

Iknowquinn,

I'd be very surprised if you couldn't do better than that price-wise with an internet vendor, but you'd just have to look around for a while. You're looking for a really large stone, and there are not as many to choose from. But I think that's even beside the point. It seems to me that you want what you want, and what you want is Tiffany's. If you don't like any other setting than the one at Tiffany's, then sure, I can understand that. But here's the thing: you're wondering why people around here aren't all running out to buy their engagement ring from Tiffany's, you say you can't understand why they disagree with you. The overwhelming response to that question is that contrary to what you say, it actually is almost always cheaper to buy from a reputable internet vendor, and there is a 90 % chance that the diamond will actually be more beautiful than at Tiffany's because you'll likely be buying a precious-cut, hearts and arrows rock, with variances so tight that the thing can't do anything but sparkle like mad. As for the setting, well, that's up to people's preference. Tiffany's makes nice settings. Then again, so do other designers. But if you do a search on Pricescope of past threads, you will discover that none of what I say is new.

Now, if you're comparing Tiffany's to going to just some other random mall jeweller or something, then you're right, the prices are going to be comparable and the quality probably won't be up to par. If given the choice in that instance, I'd shop at Tiffany's, too. But otherwise, I'd keep shopping at Good Old Gold all day long.

Daniela

 

[iknowquinn]

but i would definitely need to know the crown angle and the pavillion angle to know if this is the diamond i am looking for.

 

[iknowquinn]

thanks for your response...i really appreciate it. maybe the internet vendors have better pricing. i am only comparing tiffanys to other "stores"- actual places i can walk into. not mega chains or anything like that..but small independent dealers that i can meet and visit. the internet purchase still makes me nervous. although i do practically everything online...i don't think i could buy a 30,000 dollar ring online. god forbid if the internet store goes out of business- then what do i do? perhaps i am missing out on saving the money..but i just can't pull the trigger on an internet stone.

 

[Daniela]

The internet vendor I used has been in business for over twenty years. I really don't think they're going to disappear overnight.

The way to avoid that problem would be to go with an internet vendor who also has a real store. There are quite a few of them, actually.

 

[iknowquinn]

thanks! when i get home tonight i am going to match that first link up against the angles i believe to be what i am looking for...(i have them all scribbled down at home- maybe this wil be a great deal for us! i am still one of "those people" that is mesmerized by the tiffany diamond. i mean i just have NEVER seen a diamond that was as sparkly and brilliant as the ones i have tried on at tiffanys. i have seen them come close- but never matched. at least not yet!

 

[Nicrez]

IknowQuinn, I have to say that you are so skeptical of internet stores, and perhaps because it IS $30K. Fair enough. Tiffany's may be the place for you. When spending large amounts of money, if your safety is key, Tiffany's will be perfect for you.

Also, a stone that size is hard to find with imperfections. To retain the size, I searched, but had to go to SI1s. Consider the chances of finding a stone that large, with good color and few imperfectins...It's tough. Here's what I found:

2.43 H SI1 58 61 GIA $17,439
2.57 H SI1 0 0 GIA $17,486
2.47 H SI1 62.1 58 GIA $17,726
2.43 H SI1 61.8 58 GIA $18,292
2.52 H SI1 58.9 60 GIA $18,303
2.57 H SI1 61.3 58 GIA $18,430
2.72 H SI1 62.8 59 GIA $19,036
2.66 H SI1 60.2 60 GIA $19,090
2.62 H SI1 60.9 61 GIA $19,482
2.72 H SI1 62.4 59 GIA $19,755
2.71 H SI1 62.3 60 GIA $19,917
2.72 H SI1 62.2 56 GIA $19,976

Maybe you should get it from Tiffany's if the VS2/SI1 is a big thing for you. Good luck!

 

[Hest88]

#1 If you do a quick search on Fred Cuellar, you'll find some interesting info on him. Most of us here really don't hold him in very high regard.

#2 It's all about the lighting. See if you can bring a Tiffany stone by a window or try holding it under the table and see if it still compares to some of the other ideal stones out there.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 2/12/2004 10:13:14 AM iknowquinn wrote:





i don't think i could buy a 30,000 dollar ring online. god forbid if the internet store goes out of business- then what do i do----------------

And what do you do if the B&M store goes out of business? Do you think that a storefront has more guarantee of staying in business???......because they don't.

If you put as much research into the stability and reputation of the vendors--online and offline--as you do into the stone, the above concern should be a non-issue.

There is a jewelry store down the street from my house that went out of business after 36 years. A venerable Boston law firm - 113 years old - recently went under. Longevity is no guarantee of future existence.

The reputable online vendors nearly ALL have traditional storefronts as well, so it's a bit unrealistic to view them as "fly-by-nights" who could be gone tomorrow. A little research on your part would prove that out.

 

[luvmysparklies]

deleted duplicate

 

[luvmysparklies]

I can second the recommendations for Good Old Gold and for Whiteflash, as I have experience with both of them. Both companies provide beautiful, sparkly stones. I bought a smaller 1/2 ct. stone from Whiteflash, just for myself. I wear it everyday and it sparkles like mad.

Then I recently got engaged and he got my stone from Good Old Gold (a 2.4ct) in an I color and guess what? It sparkles like mad! In jewelry stores, my stones are on fire. That is what you are seeing is the Tiffany stone under their store lighting. To be fair, if the stone is well cut (not necessarily H&A) then yes, the Tiffany stone should perform well in other lights., But why pay silly money for the same thing that you can get with one of these online dealers.

My experience has been that Jonathan (GOG) and Lesley/Denise (Whiteflash) are great people to do business with and you wind up with a stone that is absolutely stunning. When me and my fiance are driving home at night, I like to hold my hands up and look at all the rainbows popping out of them from the headlights of the cars behind us. Do compare the angles, numbers and whatever else you have, it is worth it.

Someone just posted with their ring that they got from NiceIce and it is a Tiffany-style ring that is very, very close to the original. Take a peek on NiceIce's site too, it shows the ring there as well.

Edited to say: Uh Duh...Nice Ice is another diamond vendor here too!

Good luck!
Luv

 

[luvmysparklies]

deleted triplicate...form whacked out on me.

 

[Mara]

Oh man...I know it's not Friday but it's almost right? So I can post.

Quote:


Ok, we have been researching diamonds for a while now. We read and trust Fred Cuellar book "How to Buy a Diamond". What we are finding however, is that when you compare apples to apples- and all the angles are right, and the color and clarity are the same, as well as the carat weight...the price of a tiffany diamond is only nominally higher than from an independent dealer. and since i can tell an authentic tiffany setting from a mile way and HATE the copies....it is completely worth it to me to go to tiffanys. i just can't understand why most of you disagree....i mean- i have done the research also. we are looking at an H VS2 2.75 for about 33k. and the price is the same at tiffanys as it is through an independent dealer .... & ....but for it to have to same fire and brilliance as the tiffany one....




a) read and trust Fred's book? problemo #1 right there!


b) comparing apples to apples does not just mean that the angles are right, color and clarity are the same. apples to apples means you are comparing the EXACT same thing. what you are comparing is apples to oranges. they are both fruit...but not exactly the same. Tiffany stone having good angles, color clarity are just the basics, my friend.


c) when you say independent dealer, what exactly do you mean ? as F&I noted, the same stone online well-cut is $10k LESS than your stone from Tiffany. If the Tiffany setting is worth $10k to you, by all means..go for it. Because that is what you are paying for...that setting that you can't find elsewhere. The Tiffany STONE itself? A dime a dozen unfortunately.


d) you feel its worth it hands down to get the Tiffany setting ? then go for it! why does it matter what we or anyone else thinks? you obviously know how people feel here...you aren't going to change any minds, nor will we change yours.


e) apparently you have NOT yet done the apples to apples research


f) again..independent dealer? $10k less? doesn't sound like same price to me. but maybe my calculator is wrong?


g) fire and brilliance? that is all the CUT...nothing to do with Tiffany slapping their brand name on it. Again...you must not have done the research, because Tiffany does not yet cut their own stones, someone else cuts it for them and they brand the stone theirs and charge 40% more. So in essence you CAN get the same fire and brilliance that they have...anywhere else with a *well-cut* stone. Quality? Not different...in fact I would venture to say that the non-Tiffany H&A stone is better quality in terms of appraisal amounts.




Bottom line is that at Tiffanys you literally ARE paying for the setting. $33k for that amazing setting that everyone replicates, copies, etc. Wouldn't you rather have something else, something CUSTOM that no one else has or tries to copy? For $33k? Just curious.




For $33k you can get a 3+c G VS H&A superideal type cut stone with great angles, numbers, pictures, hearts and arrows (which Tiffany does not have), etc. So when you say that you won't buy without the GIA report, that GIA report should be the MINIMUM that you ask for when you drop $33k. Don't you think? You should require a helluva lot more.




I love Tiffany...for pieces I couldn't find anywhere else. I would never ever buy an engagement ring there...plus I don't think the setting is all that hot personally..I'm not a solitaire person. If you are going to buy Tiffany, buy it. But don't try to rationalize it as being 'the same' price and quality as elsewhere because that is definitely not true. Tiffany sells a brand and a setting and if that is what floats your boat...put your money down for the ring. Enjoy it, wear it in good health, its worth it to you. Honestly, who cares what we all think. You have read the posts and see that many disagree....but its your ring and you do what you want with it

 

[gmpi]

I think i can explain the tiffany bashing. P/S is a place where people come to save money. Most don't understand what it's like to not worry about getting the best price. If your in a position to not have to get the best price consider yourself lucky. Just make sure you look at the tiffany stone away from the halogen lights as they can make doo-doo sparkle. H is getting a little out there in color.

 

[powered BY espresso]

I have lot's of money, but I got this way by saving money

 

[iknowquinn]

why do people get SOOO angry about the tiffany's debate?? why are you taking it so personally?? so someone go find me a 2.75, H color or better, VS2 or better ring...that is a top cut- and tell me how much it is...and how i can see it before i buy it...and who i would be buying from...and i want to buy it LOOSE..not set. we all have different tastes- and for me, the only setting i will wear is the tiffany one. i just absolutely love it, and HATE the copies. but that's ok, b/c i have a jeweler friend who can and will copy it exactly for me if i don't buy directly from tiffanys. i also need to know the guarantee, warantee, and upgrade policy. thanks.

 

[Mara]

Quinn...I venture to say that no one is angry about this debate. We do it every Friday...

Bottom line is that people feel one way and some others feel another. Fine..do whatever is right for you. Just post eye-candy when you are done. But honestly, here's a question for you.




Why did you post about 4 random new threads about how much you love Tiffany and about how great they are for you and how you feel great about buying from them? ESPECIALLY after reading all of our other threads about them and knowing how people tend to respond? You had to know you were bound to get strong opinions especially the way you phrased your posts. Also why do you care what anyone else thinks anyway?




I'm really curious actually.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/13/2004 10:19:38 AM iknowquinn wrote:

why do people get SOOO angry about the tiffany's debate?? why are you taking it so personally??

----------------

Okay, it's Friday, so I'll weigh in here. Most of us have nothing against Tiffany. We just want people to buy with their eyes open and with as much information as possible. What sets the PS regulars off is when people who do not have any information beyond the marketing they've been exposed to coming here and ranting about how great Tiffany's is and how anyone who disagrees is a Tiffany hater and has Tiffany envy. It's happened here so many times that a lot of us are on a hair trigger about it.

I think all we want people to understand boils down to a very few things:

1) Tiffany & Co. is a retailer, not a diamond manufacturer. They are not a De Beers sightholder, they do not (yet) cut their own diamonds, and the diamonds they sell they get from the same wholesalers everyone else does. They are picky about what they buy--but so are other high-end retailers. They have not, by any stretch of the imagination, cornered the market on top-quality diamonds, which are available from many, many vendors.

2) Tiffany & Co. gets its high-end designs from outside, third party designers. This is not well-known outside the industry, but it's a fact. If you care to find out for yourself, the information is buried in their annual report (which is a publicly available document, since they are a publicly traded company), where they have to be straight with stockholders and the SEC about how they do business. This fact notwithstanding, these designs are mostly exclusive to Tiffany, and if you absolutely want the real thing, there's nothing wrong with getting it, and paying for it.

3) If you have your heart set on telling people, "It's a Tiffany," there's nothing wrong with that. Nearly everyone shops by brand for some things, and jewelry is really no exception. Just be clear that you're paying a premium for that privilege, as you do with any other high-end brand. Someone has to pay for Tiffany's marketing campaigns and stratospheric overhead, and that someone is the consumer.

Tiffany is a very well run company, with a solid market niche that they've done an excellent job of carving out and protecting. They do have a lot of premium quality products. But they aren't the be-all and end-all of jewelry, and not everyone cares for what they sell. Wanting to buy at Tiffany's is not a character flaw--but neither is a desire to shop somewhere else.

That's really all it is.

I'm going to shut up now.

 

[sumi]

TGIF!

 

[jcard71]

NEW FLASH: NEWS FLASH: WHO CARES IF HE/SHE WANTS TO BUY A
TIFFANY?!?!?!?! IF THEY'RE SPENING 30 K ON A RING LET THEM BUY WHAT THEY WANT!

License Plate in NH SAYS... "LIVE AN LET LIVE"

 

[iknowquinn]

hi there-

as far as the 4 posts go- i didn't mean to make 4 separate posts. i wasnt really thinking about it...i was thiking they were separate questions- so i gave them separate threads...my mistake. anyway- i really did not run the search on tiffanys before i started posting- so i didn't realize how hostile it would be!! but i am also not really one who cares about saying "it's a tiffany"! i have just had such a hard time finding the size i wanted along with the quality..so far i have only found both together at tiffany's. i am still on the hunt though- b/c it is alot of money and really want to be sure...it's just that i have done alot of investigating- and SO FAR- i am going with the tiffany stone....i completely believe that everyone who does their own research, and does it well- will make the right decision for themselves- as long as they know all the facts.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 2/13/2004 3:14:51 PM iknowquinn wrote:

anyway- i really did not run the search on tiffanys before i started posting- so i didn't realize how hostile it would be!!

----------------

You had some bad luck on the timing--last week's Tiffany thread was especially nasty. Someone with a lot of ego issues resurrected a bunch old threads and went on a big rant. Thus the nerves were a little raw. Not your fault.

 

[Mara]

----------------
On 2/13/2004 3:23:55 PM LawGem wrote:

----------------
On 2/13/2004 3:14:51 PM iknowquinn wrote:

anyway- i really did not run the search on tiffanys before i started posting- so i didn't realize how hostile it would be!!

----------------

Thus the nerves were a little raw.

----------------

Honestly....no one is being hostile here nor is this week any different from another in terms of Tiffany threads, let's not play up the drama. Everyone has differing 'opinions' as you already noted in another thread you started. Everyone discussing their opinions and/or what they would do does not equal 'hostile'. Plus, many people note time and time again that they buy from Tiffany in some way, shape or form, so it's not as though it's about hating Tiffany. It's about being educated. It's so funny to me how newbies come to the boards and always post the SAME things about Tiffany. And then call everyone else Tiffany haters. As I have said countless times before, if you are doing what you want, who cares what any of us thinks?

 

[iknowquinn]

well i don't consider myself a "newbie" as you put it.

 

[Mara]

Well then, I will rephrase my original comment so it's more applicable.




"It's so funny to me how people come to the boards and always post the SAME things about Tiffany."




It IS funny to me, because the arguments are always the same. On both sides of the fence actually. I guess we all need some new material. /idealbb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif