My 2.5 carat princess search with WF and GOG

[new_diamond1]

Hi guys.

I have been looking for an engagement diamond for my girlfriend and doing lots of research on pricescope and any other internet information on diamonds I can find. I watched a lot of Rhino’s youtube videos, which are very helpful and from what I have seen on the forum I thought GOG would be my best bet for good customer service and something special in a Solasfera princess cut. I am also looking at Whiteflash for a ACA princess.

The specs I started with were 2-3 carat, super ideal cut, G-I color, SI2 or better clarity that was eye clean.
I narrowed down what I wanted and maximized the size for my budget at 2.5 carat, I color, VS clarity. I have had two different experiences between WF and GOG though. WF returned my emails promptly, even going above and beyond with another rep emailing me information and saying the other rep was on vacation for a couple days. They have similar diamonds to what I am looking for in stock, but are a little smaller. I asked if they could find a bigger one and they found a rough that matches exactly what I want and are cutting it.

GOG on the other hand was slow to respond to emails. The rep waited a couple days between my questions to respond so I had to call in to get an update. We were waiting on a response from Solasfera to see if they could find a 2.5 carat for a week. I was getting tired of waiting so I actually called Solasfera directly to speed up the process since I want to propose in early September.

Well let's say I am not impressed with Solasfera's customer service... I talk to their rep and I hear they have no stones in the 2.5 carat size. He doesn't know when they would be able to find roughs, there are no guarantees that the diamond will match my desired specs after it comes back from AGS, it will take 3 months for a stone to come back from grading!. I ask does he have an ETA for when he could find a 2.5 carat rough and he doesn't know. He says their business model is to get a list of desired diamonds from jewelers and then fill that and not keep extra diamonds in stock. They have a 2.25 carat already graded, but it will still take 8 weeks to cut. Why do diamonds take so long to get ready. There is no way they can rush a single order? My gf wants closer to 3 carats if possible so I don't want a 2.25 if I can afford a 2.5 carat and 8 weeks is too long to for when I want to propose. So I say I have the money saved for the diamond why can't I put a order in and he won't do anything. I say you are willing to loose a paying customer for an expensive diamond and it means nothing to you. Nope they really don't seem to care about individual orders. Not willing to work with me at all.

Oh and the Solasfera rep says are you the one looking for a 2.5 carat and did you talk to *** from GOG? So clearly my GOG rep talked to Solasfera and he told him that there weren't any 2.5 carats available, but it has been multiple days since then and I have not heard a word from GOG about sorry its not possible, here are some alternative diamonds, maybe we can search other Solasfera dealers and see if we can find one. I am not buying a $50 item. I should get amazing customer service since I am paying thousands of dollars.

I am frustrated that what should be a fun process is so exhausting. I was really looking forward to comparing a Solasfera princess with a ACA princess in person and then picking the best. Instead it looks like WF is my only option.

Sorry for the long story I just wanted to get some more feedback on the forum. I would recommend anyone looking for a diamond that isn’t in stock to look almost a year out so they have plenty of time. I don't think people get how long it takes for them to make the diamonds and I am shocked at the wait times claimed. 4, 5 weeks for cutting seems to be the average for cutters. I would recommend WF over GOG, which is surprising since the forum threads I have read have seen seem to favor GOG over WF. I would also like to thank WF for awesome customer service and working on speeding up getting me a diamond so I can make my proposal date.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

One of the reasons retailers are retailers and manufacturers and wholesalers is that the former give client service.
I am surprised about GOG - they would be too I think and I am pretty sure someone will see this.

I would be wary of SI2 in a stone that large - and because princess inclusions are usually very central near the table they are usually very easily seen from the large side facets - so consider the type of setting too

 

[new_diamond1]

Thanks for the advise Garry. If its SI* then I ask that it is eye clean to be sure, but VS* clarity isn't much more compared to upgrading to a higher color grade or the total diamond price so I picked a VS* to be safe.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI ND,
I have a bit of a different perspective from Garry- whom I respect a lot. I love SI2 diamonds for the value they offer.
In my experience, you can indeed find a larger SI2 that is eye clean- although they are more rare than in smaller stones where there's simply less room for the inclusions to be visible.

I don't share Garry experience in placement and nature of inclusions in princess cuts- I have seen many Princesses with imperfections that were not centrally located.
Again- I greatly respect Garry's experience, but we operate halfway around the world from each other- so maybe we look at different diamonds

About your search in general: 2.50ct+- diamonds are extremely rare in pretty much any shape.
It's far to easy for cutters to change a few angles and end up at 3.00cts.
Search on different sites and you'll see what I mean. Compare how many 2.50-2.99 diamonds they have versus 3.00-3.05ct

Personally I'd also look at non ideal princess cuts as there's a lot of cutters, and diamond experts who don't agree with AGSL ideal cut standards for Princess Cuts.

Best of luck in your search

 

[new_diamond1]

I would love to get a 3 carat, but they are outside of my budget for an ideal cut unfortunately. If anyone wants to sell me a 3 carat ideal princess at a 2.5 carat price I am open .

 

[Rhino]

Greetings newdiamond1.

My apologies if the responses weren't coming to you as quickly as you'd like. Your query came at a time in our industry when the majority of the trade here in NY are on vacation and is why it is impossible to find out this information for you as quickly as you'd like. It's not that your call is not important to us and we do not place a low importance on customer service but there are times when our hands are literally tied and things out of our control. Solasfera princess cuts are perhaps the rarest breed out there. If you've seen any of our videos on them you know what I'm talking about.

Also fine quality crystals in way of rough to cut into a Solasfera are not always easy to find in *precise* color/clarity ranges and Solasfera's are not the kind of dime a dozen goodies that can be cut so quickly like most of the stuff on the market. 8 weeks isn't uncommon when you take into account the time for cutting as well as lab grading with GIA (depending on their time frame at the time). Also when they are cutting Solasfera princess cuts (as well as other premium cut products like Octavia, AVC, etc.) oversizes ... ie. diamonds between 2.5-2.99 are not common and even harder to locate. The reason for this is because cutters can take a piece of rough and more easily cut a 3ct+ product as opposed to cutting a Solasfera which will result in under 3ct from the same rough. There's a fine balance between finding those crystals that will yield the best cut and at the same time good value. You don't want to pay the 3ct premium for a 2.6-2.9xct.

**edited by moderator, please no sales-speak on the forum**

At the same time I have nothing but nice things to say about our friends at Wf. We may have different ways of doing things but I've met Brian and some of the team there and I know they operate with the best interests of their clients. Good luck to you no matter what you do.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[arkieb1]

Another vendor to try might be Wink - contact him and see if Paul from Infinity Diamonds has or could cut a princess for you in the timeframe you are looking for. The issue you will have is finding the rough and getting something cut in the timeframe you want irrespective of which vendor you choose. Here is the link to Wink;

http://highperformancediamonds.com/education/infinity-diamonds/

 

[new_diamond1]

Hi Rhino,

I don't mind people going on vacation I just would like more communication like hey I am going on vacation, but Bob will fill in while I am out. I thought 2 months lead time before I propose would be enough, but I didn't realize how long cutting wait times were so I am trying to make sure I can still hit my deadline in early Sept.

I did see your great videos on Solasfera princess cuts and I would really like to have one as an option if possible. If it is easier to cut a rough into a 3 carat instead of a 2.5 carat shouldn't the prices be basically the same since it sounds like 3 carats are less rare (more abundant) than 2.5 carats? I picked 2.5 since I didn't think I could afford a 3 carat around $24-25K.

Can you find any solasfera princess in the 2.3-2.5 range? It sounds like solasfera only has 2 carats available that are too expensive with VVS G-H color, and a 2.2 carat rough that will probably take too long to be ready for sept. What about other solasfera dealers or one of your select ideal princess cut diamonds in the 2.5ish range?

From what I see the only option currently from GOG that is close enough to my specs, without being too expensive or in a J color, is a 2.08 carat select ideal princess.

 

[new_diamond1]

Arkieb1 thanks for the suggestion. I sent Wink an email. I did read something about them not doing ideal princesses anymore on their website so we will see.

 

[Rhino]

Hi newdiamond1,

Sure. I believe you may have gotten an email from Marie today but either way you'll get one from me in the morning.

Kind regards,
Jon

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

HI ND,
I have a bit of a different perspective from Garry- whom I respect a lot. I love SI2 diamonds for the value they offer.
In my experience, you can indeed find a larger SI2 that is eye clean- although they are more rare than in smaller stones where there's simply less room for the inclusions to be visible.

I don't share Garry experience in placement and nature of inclusions in princess cuts- I have seen many Princesses with imperfections that were not centrally located.
Again- I greatly respect Garry's experience, but we operate halfway around the world from each other- so maybe we look at different diamonds

About your search in general: 2.50ct+- diamonds are extremely rare in pretty much any shape.
It's far to easy for cutters to change a few angles and end up at 3.00cts.
Search on different sites and you'll see what I mean. Compare how many 2.50-2.99 diamonds they have versus 3.00-3.05ct

Personally I'd also look at non ideal princess cuts as there's a lot of cutters, and diamond experts who don't agree with AGSL ideal cut standards for Princess Cuts.

Best of luck in your search

You are plainly very wrong David.
Look at JA SI princess cuts or any other side with rotatable princess cut videos and you will see that around half validate my suggestion that it is easier to see the inculsions through the large triangular pavilion facets than through the table - and that the majority of inclusions are close to the center and often just under the table.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI ND,
I have a bit of a different perspective from Garry- whom I respect a lot. I love SI2 diamonds for the value they offer.
In my experience, you can indeed find a larger SI2 that is eye clean- although they are more rare than in smaller stones where there's simply less room for the inclusions to be visible.

I don't share Garry experience in placement and nature of inclusions in princess cuts- I have seen many Princesses with imperfections that were not centrally located.
Again- I greatly respect Garry's experience, but we operate halfway around the world from each other- so maybe we look at different diamonds

About your search in general: 2.50ct+- diamonds are extremely rare in pretty much any shape.
It's far to easy for cutters to change a few angles and end up at 3.00cts.
Search on different sites and you'll see what I mean. Compare how many 2.50-2.99 diamonds they have versus 3.00-3.05ct

Personally I'd also look at non ideal princess cuts as there's a lot of cutters, and diamond experts who don't agree with AGSL ideal cut standards for Princess Cuts.

Best of luck in your search

You are plainly very wrong David.
Look at JA SI princess cuts or any other side with rotatable princess cut videos and you will see that around half validate my suggestion that it is easier to see the inculsions through the large triangular pavilion facets than through the table - and that the majority of inclusions are close to the center and often just under the table.

I think we were referring to different aspects Garry
I use through the table for judging eye clean.
I agree that through the pavilion SI2 sized imperfections are often easy to see.
IN terms of where the imperfections are actually located- we may just have different experiences- I recall seeing many imperfect princess cuts with boogers near the edge.

Another point is that many of the sites with those sorts of rotating videos are "Virtual".
One thing the internet does well is show imperfections. The worst SI goods are harder to sell. Over time, the percentage of eye clean SI's in the virtual pool goes down and down.
This problem will likely get worse.
Having said that- there's still some amazing SI clarity diamonds.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Another point is that many of the sites with those sorts of rotating videos are "Virtual".
One thing the internet does well is show imperfections. The worst SI goods are harder to sell. Over time, the percentage of eye clean SI's in the virtual pool goes down and down.
This problem will likely get worse.
Having said that- there's still some amazing SI clarity diamonds.

Hi David - I have not seen anyone doing virtual rotating diamonds - every one I have seen is from a real video. Can you point me to any virtual ones - on or offline?

 

[OoohShiny]

WF returned my emails promptly, even going above and beyond with another rep emailing me information and saying the other rep was on vacation for a couple days. They have similar diamonds to what I am looking for in stock, but are a little smaller. I asked if they could find a bigger one and they found a rough that matches exactly what I want and are cutting it.

Just to check...

... WF are cutting to order for you as we type?


I am never sure of the protocol in these sorts of situations - one obvously wants to get exactly what one wants at the best price, and continuing to shop around with the other forum vendors can yield good results, but I always feel that once someone has committed to doing something for me, I am committed to following through with them - a gentlemens' agreement, if you will.

I am sure WF will have no problem selling whatever they are cutting in any size/colour/clarity, but I personally always have guilt if I make others do work and then don't end up buying anything from them! (noting that one shouldn't feel obliged to go through with something just because someone has been nice... )


Please don't take this as in any way judgemental, it's more that I am just looking to explore the situation for future personal reference

 

[Rockdiamond]

Another point is that many of the sites with those sorts of rotating videos are "Virtual".
One thing the internet does well is show imperfections. The worst SI goods are harder to sell. Over time, the percentage of eye clean SI's in the virtual pool goes down and down.
This problem will likely get worse.
Having said that- there's still some amazing SI clarity diamonds.

Hi David - I have not seen anyone doing virtual rotating diamonds - every one I have seen is from a real video. Can you point me to any virtual ones - on or offline?

Hi Garry
The videos are of real diamonds. What I meant is that most of the sites with these rotating videos are not in possession of the diamonds. They are virtual diamond sellers.

 

[tyty333]

Hi Rhino,

I don't mind people going on vacation I just would like more communication like hey I am going on vacation, but Bob will fill in while I am out. I thought 2 months lead time before I propose would be enough, but I didn't realize how long cutting wait times were so I am trying to make sure I can still hit my deadline in early Sept.

I just wanted to give you some more info on the "vacation" thing. From what I understand, it's not that just one person goes
on vacation it's that basically they all go on vacation and close up shop for a week. And it's not just one shop...it's many shops/
businesses in the diamond industry. I believe the holiday is based on faith. It's unfortunate they didn't inform you that they would
be closing for a few days/week. That info would have been helpful to you.

On another note...I (and most PSers) would have never though that 2 months lead time for cutting a stone would be enough.
Heck, we would have suggested that much time if you were looking for a previously cut stone/setting in a more common size.
Would it take that long? Probably not, but you want to take into account the possibility of anything going wrong.

Looks like things are moving in the right direction for you. The lack of communication is inexcusable. Looking forward to
seeing this beauty once it all comes together!

 

[new_diamond1]

Hi OoohShiny

I put a deposit down for WF to cut a diamond. I talked to WF about the deposit and clearly talked about if it was refundable. They said that it was refundable if I decided to go with a competitors diamond. Direct communication is key so that assumptions are not made. So I am not bound to them.

I treat it as test driving a car. If I want to compare a Ferrari to a Porsche I don't have to order a Ferrari to test drive it and once I test drive it I can still look at Porsches. I am sure WF will be able to sell their awesome diamond if I decide not to buy it and it will help more people look at them since they have great customer service. Also if there were more Solasfera and ACA diamonds in stock then I would have picked between them instead of asking for more to be looked for. There are a lot of 1 carat sizes, but unfortunately very little stock between 2-3 carats.



Hi tyty333

Yeah I didn't know about July and August being really bad for the diamond industry since they go on vacation. If I would have known better I would have started earlier. That is partially my mistake. Hopefully people will learn from this information and start on their search earlier.

Things are moving quickly with Rhino helping me, so I should have a good selection of diamonds to compare and meet my deadline.