More senseless killing in Paris

[december-fire]

Oh dear, I was just wrapping up a post and it disappeared! I don't post much and may have hit delete. Or maybe my response was being viewed as it was being typed and was deemed inappropriate. If that was the case, my apologies.

I didn't mean to start a controversy with my initial post.

I will simply repeat my sympathy and thoughts for the victims and loved ones of this terrible tragedy.

Don't feel bad or apologise. You simply were the first to say what many think, so I quoted your words. It could have easily been anyone else.
I don't blame you or anyone for feeling that the killers are any of the things as described so far in this thread by you or others. I just think that it is a feeling that people do not examine, one of many biases we humans have.

Jane,

I'd like to let this go. But since you replied directly to me, I will repeat something I had in my 'disappearing' reply.

Please don't write off my opinion as a 'protection mechanism' or a bias as a result of being human.

And if you think that ISIS is interested in having a conversation, all I can say is good luck with that. My opinion, based on my life experiences, knowledge and expertise, is that you wouldn't live long enough to finish asking your first question.

I could provide you with facts to explain my opinion, but I don't think that would be fruitful and I'm not the kind of person to share graphic information unless warranted.

But, as I said, please don't assume that my opinion is a 'protection mechanism'. People are not all the same, do not all act in a rational manner or because of ideology. Some people enjoy violence and killing.

Kenny started a thread about the tragedy in Paris, and my initial post was not specifically and solely pertaining to that tragedy or the people responsible (whoever they may be). Sorry for the derailment, Kenny.

 

[arkieb1]

Their faith promises them a afterlife in paradise surrounded by glory and 72 virgins. Western faith condemns them to hell.

Me, each time one of these incidents happens just hopes all of our members, their families and friends are safe, and one day we, irrespective of our beliefs and cultural differences can live in peace.

I by in large agree with Deb on this one, over a million refugees have been in limbo for years now from a situation really the West created, our governments did nothing to help these people, aid agencies have been calling for help for years, it wasn't until we all saw the images of a dead little boy washed up on a shore in the arms of a police office in Europe on social media that members in our society demanded better from our politicians and even now we are still not doing enough. We are in part responsible for creating these and very probably, the next generation of terrorists that we so greatly despise.

 

[telephone89]

As someone very familiar with the muslim/islam religion - I am so appalled by this. I am not a part of this religion (my partner used to be) but this is disgusting.

 

[JaneSmith]

Jane,

I'd like to let this go.

Fine by me. I think you've misunderstood a couple of things.






The US, and other countries, needs to quit with the jingoistic military initiatives. Pour some of that cash into schools and healthcare and business investment. Poverty and ignorance drive people into the waiting arms of the jihadis.

 

[Sky56]

Appalling. Warfare targeting innocent civilians, a heinous crime. Sad!

 

[AGBF]

The US, and other countries, needs to quit with the jingoistic military initiatives. Pour some of that cash into schools and healthcare and business investment. Poverty and ignorance drive people into the waiting arms of the jihadis.

...or we could do what Donald Trump suggested we do to solve the immigration "problem" (which we used to view as the way our country, by that I mean the United States, Jane) grew. We could build a fence around Europe. Hungary already started one. Gosh, I love Hungary. They have almost always been the oppressors. (Don't mind me. I have a bias. My great-grand-parents were Slovaks who lived under the Magyars in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and were forced to learn Hungarian in school.) The only time I can remember them being the freedom fighters is during the Soviet invasion in 1956. And during the Olympic Blood-in-the-Water water polo match that year. Yeah...I cheered the Hungarians that year.

Deb/AGBF

 

[missy]

Heinous crimes against humanity and no reason can justify murdering innocent people. No matter what one might think re who helped contribute to causing this situation there is nothing that can justify these actions. For those who think one can try reasoning with people who think this way I wish you good luck.

 

[OreoRosies86]

My heart is broken.

 

[momhappy]

Heinous crimes against humanity and no reason can justify murdering innocent people. No matter what one might think re who helped contribute to causing this situation there is nothing that can justify these actions. For those who think one can try reasoning with people who think this way I wish you good luck.

I completely agree. Unjustifiable. Period. And sadly, it will continue because there are more innocent people to kill.

 

[AGBF]

No votes for my fence?

 

[Cluless]

This is so sad, My heartfelt condolences to those suffering

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I too, wish to express my sadness and horror at the Paris killings.

I am not a person who believes that money for poverty and schools in these countries will solve anything. I liken this episode in our lives comparable to the Crusades. So appeasement will not work. If you found an island for Isis to practice Sharia Law, it would not be enough, because they want everyone to practice Sharia Law. I think until they are stamped out, these incidents will continue. A few weeks ago Isis called for smaller attacks on countries the world over. Obviously, some listened.

The US doesn't have much of a policy. They are neither in, nor out. Somehow I get the feeling we really don't know how to fight.
And no matter the policy there will large groups to oppose. There is no question in my mind that George Bush, the younger, caused much of this. Working with Russia is a start.

As to the poor refugees I do not fault Slovenia for putting up a fence. I don't know how Greece is coping, I guess my solution would be giving them some land somewhere. Don't we have an empty island we can give them or build one like the Chinese have done. But, giving land didn't work out so well with Israel in Palestine. But America and Australia, and Dubai worked. I think the chances are great countries will be importing terrorists, so I oppose taking them in here.

Annette

 

[Snowdrop13]

Paris is a beautiful city, I have been there many times and will go again. This has made me very, very sad and my heart goes out to all those involved.

We've just seen a news report which showed Parisians queueing at blood donation centres to help the 300 plus injured people, so moving.

 

[kenny]

I try to look behind the curtain.

Terrorism isn't the problem.
Terrorism is a symptom.

The problem is unfair distribution of wealth among countries.
Rich countries use their power to make sure they keep their privileged life style.
Poor countries can't get a foot in the door.
If you ever hear a politician utter the words 'national interest' that's code for screwing over those countries over there to ensure cheap gas for our gluttonous SUVs.

For billions there is no hope of ever having a bike in the driveway, let alone a car, let alone a driveway.
Those with no hope are vulnerable to being seduced by the poison fed to them by the orgs we can't mention on PS.

When there is no hope for happiness during life hope for happiness after life is very seductive.

 

[minousbijoux]

I try to look behind the curtain.

Terrorism isn't the problem.
Terrorism is a symptom.

The problem is unfair distribution of wealth among countries.
Rich countries use their power to make sure they keep their privileged life style.
Poor countries can't get a foot in the door.
If you ever hear a politician utter the words 'national interest' that's code for screwing over those countries over there to ensure cheap gas for our gluttonous SUVs.

For billions there is no hope of ever having a bike in the driveway, let alone a car, let alone a driveway.
Those with no hope are vulnerable to being seduced by the poison fed to them by the orgs we can't mention on PS.

When there is no hope for happiness during life hope for happiness after life is very seductive.

Extremely well said. Sad but true.

 

[momhappy]

The truly sad part is why some people think that it's okay to take out as many innocent people as they can.
You can name any reasons you want to for why these things happen - the bottom line is that there are some extremely unstable people in this world whose sole purpose is to kill other people.

 

[Queenie60]

Sad to say, this is the new normal. I'm afraid for my children, they're young adults and the world as I knew it growing up will never be the same. I'm reluctant to allow my daughter to study abroad next year but we must not live in fear. And what's to say they won't do this in some US city soon? It sickens me that our world has become a war zone.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Terrorism is a symptom, not the cause. Its the strategy! What a statement. These people aren't even among the poorest countries in the world. Boo Hoo-- they kill because they don't have a bike or even a driveway?. They have been oil rich for a long time. Let them look to their own leaders, to share the wealth. Why do some nations and peoples rise from the ashes, and others blame the west for their poverty..o. this not a matter of poverty, this is a matter of domination of one religion over another.

I'll be happy to contribute to the bike drive. Put me down for 2.

Annette

You think the IRA terrorists were reacting to poverty. No they were reacting to domination and bigotry. But their strategy was terror.

 

[kenny]

The truly sad part is why some people think that it's okay to take out as many innocent people as they can.
You can name any reasons you want to for why these things happen - the bottom line is that there are some extremely unstable people in this world whose sole purpose is to kill other people.

Yes, that's what we see in front of the curtain.

 

[momhappy]

Hi,

Terrorism is a symptom, not the cause. Its the strategy! What a statement. These people aren't even among the poorest countries in the world. Boo Hoo-- they kill because they don't have a bike or even a driveway?. They have been oil rich for a long time. Let them look to their own leaders, to share the wealth. Why do some nations and peoples rise from the ashes, and others blame the west for their poverty..o. this not a matter of poverty, this is a matter of domination of one religion over another.

I'll be happy to contribute to the bike drive. Put me down for 2.

Annette

You think the IRA terrorists were reacting to poverty. No they were reacting to domination and bigotry. But their strategy was terror.

I agree. Oh, and put me down for a bike too....

 

[Dancing Fire]

Hi,

Terrorism is a symptom, not the cause. Its the strategy! What a statement. These people aren't even among the poorest countries in the world. Boo Hoo-- they kill because they don't have a bike or even a driveway?. They have been oil rich for a long time. Let them look to their own leaders, to share the wealth. Why do some nations and peoples rise from the ashes, and others blame the west for their poverty..o. this not a matter of poverty, this is a matter of domination of one religion over another.

I'll be happy to contribute to the bike drive. Put me down for 2.

Annette

You think the IRA terrorists were reacting to poverty. No they were reacting to domination and bigotry. But their strategy was terror.

 

[missy]

Hi,

Terrorism is a symptom, not the cause. Its the strategy! What a statement. These people aren't even among the poorest countries in the world. Boo Hoo-- they kill because they don't have a bike or even a driveway?. They have been oil rich for a long time. Let them look to their own leaders, to share the wealth. Why do some nations and peoples rise from the ashes, and others blame the west for their poverty..o. this not a matter of poverty, this is a matter of domination of one religion over another.

I'll be happy to contribute to the bike drive. Put me down for 2.

Annette

You think the IRA terrorists were reacting to poverty. No they were reacting to domination and bigotry. But their strategy was terror.

I agree. Oh, and put me down for a bike too....

Agree completely.

Kenny, you started this thread and you put the word "senseless" in the title. I agree completely with the use of that word as well. It fits. It *is* senseless.

 

[kenny]

Yes, terrorism happens when have-nots feel powerless, hopeless, frustrated, and screwed-over by the haves.

Playing nice and following the rules has gotten them nowhere.
Playing nasty draws attention to their plight.

I'm not saying terrorism is okay.
And when it's based on self-professed religious-pure wiping out who they feel is religiously-impure it's particularly heinous.
But again if people had hope messages from religious leaders to carry out terrorism to gain favor with God would fall on reasonable and deaf ears.

When I see terrorism I ask, "Why?"
The answer, "Because they're evil." is a cop out.

The world is not fair.
I'm just glad I was clever enough to be born a white male in a country where there IS hope.

 

[purplesparklies]

There will always be people who are left to suffer through situations and circumstances that are difficult and unfair. Too many. Too many who have no say and no control over what happens to them. However, while people may find themselves victims of circumstance they and they alone choose how to respond. Each person makes a choice. They can choose to use the trials and tribulations that life throws at them as an excuse to wallow in negativity and choose destruction for his/her self and/or others or they can use that anger/frustration and disappointment and harness that energy to use as fuel to bring about powerful and positive change for his/her self and/or others. Each individual is responsible for the choice they make. People have been making this choice since the beginning of time and history books are full of the stories of the consequences of this simple choice. We have no control over how our story begins but we alone have the choice over how our story ends.

 

[kenny]

We have no control over how our story begins but we alone have the choice over how our story ends.

That might be more true in first-world countries but for billions there is no hope.
Their life will end as it began, in abject poverty.

They have nothing, and they have nothing to lose.

Again I do not support terrorism.
It's wrong.
Period.

 

[arkieb1]

Yes, terrorism happens when have-nots feel powerless, hopeless, frustrated, and screwed-over by the haves.

Playing nice and following the rules has gotten them nowhere.
Playing nasty draws attention to their plight.

I'm not saying terrorism is okay.
And when it's based on self-professed religious-pure wiping out who they feel is religiously-impure it's particularly heinous.
But again if people had hope messages from religious leaders to carry out terrorism to gain favor with God would fall on reasonable and deaf ears.

When I see terrorism I ask, "Why?"
The answer, "Because they're evil." is a cop out.

The world is not fair.
I'm just glad I was clever enough to be born a white male in a country where there IS hope.

I am not sure I agree, there was a article recently about a guy who left Australia with his wife who was not originally a muslim and daughters to become part of Isis and the photos showed them posing with automatic weapons on the bonnet of a BMW. A lot of heads of these terrorist organisations/dictators at various points in history come from families with money and are not poor, and most of the Aussies and English people that have become radicalised to their cause were middle class loners that never fitted in.

Perhaps we should worry about the young boys and girls who have had most of their family blown to shreds in the conflict, the million plus people that have been made homeless and are now living in poverty or are dying trying to escape it - in that case I do agree with Kenny and sadly I fear it will be the breeding ground for our future terrorists.

 

[Matata]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/27/answers-to-why-people-become-terrorists.html

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PF1hNe_V0Jc3w3v-zyEctdq4NOypxWWWMSMu7nmHHXc/edit

 

[arkieb1]

Thank you Matata the articles confirm what I was trying to say there is no one size fits all when it comes to describing who becomes a terrorist. In fact at a guess the gunmen in Paris were probably from families that could afford to give them bikes as kids and probably did not come from lives surrounded by poverty.

 

[packrat]

So how do we make it stop? Give them money? Bikes? A three bedroom house with a picket fence? Do we bring everyone here and fund their lives? If it's b/c some have and some have not, then...what? And where are they getting the money for the things they have, to do their terrorist acts? If they're poor and have nothing, then they have...money to buy guns and ammo but not money to provide for their families? Or are the Haves funding the Have Nots in order to further their own hate spewing agenda? I don't think it can be placed fully on Haves and Have Nots. There's plenty of Have Nots on the planet who don't go around killing people and acting like ****wads. And if we can't say that they're evil or psychopaths b/c that's not right b/c to them they're not evil or psychopathic..then we can't call the killings senseless b/c to those that committed those acts, they aren't senseless and they were done w/a purpose. Really, we can't call anything that is done deliberately and w/forethought, senseless, then, b/c to the perpetrator of those acts, there's a sense, and a purpose to it.

 

[Matata]

Here's where their funding comes from: http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-282607.html