Mint Grossular Garnet

[maxspinel]

2 months ago, I saw a beautiful "mint grossular garnet" in a gem show. It has very unusual intense and vibrant "mint" green color. It is very lustrous and sparkes like a diamond. It was 3 carats and priced at $3,000. I thought it was kinda of pricey since it is not green enough to be called a Tsavorite. Nevertheless, it is eye catching and I am still thinking about it. There is another gem show coming up this month and I know that particular dealer will be in the show too. It is highly probable that the stone might be sold but just in case that I might run into it again, I''d like to prepare to strike a bargin.

Does anyone have any idea on the price range of this type of garnet? I don''t seem to have any luck finding it on the internet. I did see some grossularite, mali or other garnet varieties but none can compare to the color of that gem. I was thinking that since Tsavorite is also a type of grossular garnet and priced around ~$1000/ct, so if this "mint" color variation is a lower tier color than the Tsavorite, then the price should also be lower. The reason that I am more attracted to it than Tsavorite is because it is unique and everyone will be guessing what it is. Unlike the Tsavorite or other comparable green stones, most people would just assume that it is Emerald and that knocks the fun out of it.

 

[belle]

i don''t have any information on pricing, but i just wanted to say that i have recently seem a mint green garnet that was just as you describe. it was absolutely amazing...so very beautiful, with awesome scintillation...it looked like a green diamond. (can you tell i''m still thinking about it?) if i came across one as beautiful for sale, i would seriously consider it. i hope you find what you are looking for....best of luck!

 

[valeria101]

I don't think 3 cts is allot more comon for the light green than the dark green garnets. If the stone was brilliant (well cut) and not clearly yellowish than it was one of the nicer among green grossular garnets too. So... perhaps not allot of room to bargain although I find the price high too.

I can't do much better than show pictures online. Let's say I'd expect some fresh green color (like the mid-shade between white and dark green on a celery stalk, not yellowish like avocado pulp). Something resembling a brighter peridot or unripen apples is very nice too although more yellowish and less expensive... As long as the thing has strong color (you would not call it 'washed out' ) why not.

These are about 1 carat each, light blueish green merelani mint garnet and grossularite from Acstones.

Lovely both... but the color of the triangle would be more expensive, I think. I wonder if THIS....


Sometimes the light green garnets are called 'Merelani green' after an older source. You may want to search this trade name fro refference. The name is used generically for mint colored garnet of any source (not that are many).

These Meralani mint garnets used to be expensive (comparable with tsavorite) and small - 3 carats would be HUGE for the source. The anme was often mentioned as a collectable garnet 4-5 years ago and I remember prices loosely around $400/ct for stones near one carat. I did not look into them much, but also never happened to locate one over 2 cts at the time. I am not sure if the stones sold now as green grossular or grossularite are the same species of garnet. The source is not Merelani anymore and the grossularit seems nore yellow. Some relatively inexpensive near colorless grossularite looks like nothing else, let alone Merelani mint garnet. Shades of green without yellow tinge are more expensive - as usual. A cold green shade (blueish green not yellowish) and strong bright color would explain the price you have been offered. These ones below come close of wat I have in mind. I have not seen either piece of course - I am just using the picture as an example of color.

Multicolor.com lsists grossularite garnets. There are a couple of pieces near 3 cts ($300 - $400/ct) and one large 12 cts piece (cited in the pisture below). Does any of those come close to what you have seen? At least as much as pictures allow.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[valeria101]

Oh... read this

These are 3-4 cts as is, so definitely not near as large as the one you found. It can''t hurt to ask about a larger one. Even if there is none in stock (I would not be surprised) you may find out exactly how desirable your find is.

 

[belle]

great link ana.

i am in love with those mint garnets

 

[Art Nouveau]

It''s hard to say what a stone is worth without seeing it. $1000 per carat sounds a little hgih unless it is an exceptional stone. I saw some mint green tsarvorite garnets at a gem show recently and they were going for around $350 to $600 per carat, but those might not be as fine quality as the one you are considering. A local jewelry store tried to sell me a 5-6 carat pair for ~$6000. They were nice but too expensive. I ended up buying mint green tourmaline for ~$85 per carat. The color is nice, but the stones are not as brilliant as the mint green tsarvorite.

Art Nouveau

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 8/31/2005 1:24:56 AM
Author: Art Nouveau
I saw some mint green tsarvorite garnets at a gem show recently and they were going for around $350 to $600 per carat, but those might not be as fine quality as the one you are considering.

Were they 3 carat size or above? I have no idea of what color, shape, quality, etc. maxspinel''s stone is. But let''s do a little analysis here. Roughs to cut large green grossular garnets of any saturation are rare.

Ana has shown 3-4 carat roughs priced at up to $100/ct. When a clean rough to cut a 3 carat stone is available, it''s in the 12 to 15 carat range given average 20-25% yield from rough. (Sometimes yields are better if the rough is perfectly shaped but that''s not often the case). So the cutter will have a minimum of $1,200 in the rough to begin with. Actually, a select rough that size would probably cost much more than $100/ct.

Add to that the labor/costs of cutting and the costs of selling, and the expectation of profit from investing that much cash on a stone that might have a hidden flaw or turn out to be not quite the color expected. If my scenario is anything close to accurate the asking price doesn''t seem out of line at all.

I quickly priced some darker green tsavorites on line today. They may not be representative prices -- I didn''t spend a lot of time looking -- but I found a 3.38 oval for $8,450; a 3.78 trillion for $9,450 and a 4.03 cusion for $10,000.

Richard M.

 

[MINE!!]

these are yummy!

 

[MJO]

I have seen that mint grossular garnets have raised alot in price over the past year. Larger very fine stones up are about 1/2 - 3/4 the price of fine tsavorite. Fine tsavorite of 3cts are about $1,500 - $2,000/ct

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 8/31/2005 10:44:13 AM
Author: MJO
I have seen that mint grossular garnets have raised alot in price over the past year. Larger very fine stones up are about 1/2 - 3/4 the price of fine tsavorite. Fine tsavorite of 3cts are about $1,500 - $2,000/ct

Thanks for the info Maurice. I don''t really keep close tabs on prices until I''m ready to buy. Good green grossular of any color is extremely hard to find in sizes large enough to cut 3 carat-plus stones, and it''s expensive. Large sizes have always been very scarce in this garnet species. I think the largest tsavorite at the Smithsonian is in the 8-carat range although I''ve heard of 16-carat sizes -- rare, rare!!

Richard M.

 

[MJO]

Hello Richard M,

I have many tsavorites so I keep track of the prices. I sold 2 of my 10ct+ stones in the last few months to make room for some new stones. I still have (1) 10ct+, (1) 6.5ct+, (5) 4ct+ a few 3ct+ and about (30) 1cts.

 

[maxspinel]

I saw a couple of these mint grossular gems in the last gem show. There was a 4ct with lighter color resembleing Ana''s post of 12 ct and was priced at only $1500 (~400/ct). I was actually surprised at its price and was tempted to start bargaining for it. Fortunately and unfortunately, the dealer showed me then his best gem; a smaller 3 ct with unbelievalbe color and sparkle. It was $3000 and I ended up getting neither since the 4ct one did not compare close to the color and the 3ct was a little too pricey.

I also talked to the guy who features the rough in Ana''s post and he is really nice. Unfortunately, the yield is only around 25% to the most 35% and in order to get a more satuated color, the gem has to be cut a little on the deep side. Therefore, a 4.0 ct rough can only yield ~ 1.0 ct faceted gemstone

. I did a quick estimate: including the cut and the rough, to generate a 1.0 ct gem, the cost is ~ $400/ct. If this is the case, a larger size and more vibrant stone should cost more. I hope I''ll see the gem again; this time, I think I am ready.

I missed the boat on the pink sapphire as I had my eyes on it long before the price sky rocketed in the past couple of years.

However, is that something I should look out for in searching for the mint garnet? Does this gem display a different color under different lights? I don''t want to make another costly mistake; I got enough of these sitting on the shelf.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/1/2005 12:39:05 AM
Author: maxspinel

However, is that something I should look out for in searching for the mint garnet? Does this gem display a different color under different lights?

Well, everything changes color with light... Take a look at the larger tsavorite pieces at AJSgems if not one already.

There are two light green pears there that might fit your description:

3cts an 2 cts... together ad up to $3k.

 

[MJO]

Hi Anna,

Arnold at AJS''s prices are very good on these stones. I think he has had them for sale for awhile on his site. His prices have not changed since he first posted them. If he paid the old price for a stone he will ussually leave it at the lower price until sold.

 

[Swala Gem Traders]

Dear Maxspinel,

A Mint Garnet refers to the Green Grossular Garnets which are found in the Tanzanite mines of Mererani. Once in a while, a bit of rough is found there.

These gems are technically Tsavorite Garnets as they contain Vanadium and Chromium. However, they are less saturated and are generally cleaner and often bigger. They are also very brilliant. And rarer but cheaper.


Regards.

 

[maxspinel]

I went to the Gem show this weekend and found it again. The mint garnet was still there, as dazzling as the last time I saw it. However, like any women, I couldn’t made up my mind and I started surveying the cost of nearly every Tsavorite and mint grossular garnet I could find in the show.

Tsavarite:
Medium dark tone, highly saturated green (3-4 cts, good cut): $1200 to $2500/ct
Medium tone with some yellowish secondary tint (2-3 cts, ok cut): $650 to $1000/ct

Mint Grossular Garnet:
Medium green to bluish green (3-4 cts): $900 to $2200/ct
Light yellowish green (4 – 8 cts): $340 - $500/ct
Light yellowish green to light green (2 cts): $240/ct

Tsavorite is very hot and the mint has gained some popularities as I see a couple more dealers carrying it. More choices confuse one’s mind and I was agonizing between a Tsavorite and mint garnet; not really over beauty but the economic aspect of value. Since “mint” is low saturation of “green”; low saturation combined with a light tone means less value. With the same money, I can get a lighter Tsavorite instead of a deeper “mint” garnet. Finally, I had to clear my mind and remembered the lessons learnt:
1. Trust your first impression and your instinct. If the stone dazzles you, get it.
2. Collect what you like, not what is popular.
3. Seize the opportunity since the same stone seldom appears again and I am so lucky it is still there.



I went back to the original dealer with the “mint” garnet and started bargaining. It was Sunday 3:00 pm and the show closed at ~ 4:00 pm. With great reluctance, the dealer let it go at $700/ct. He gave me a long lecture about how unreasonable I was to expect such a discount on an unusual/spectacular piece. My husband was so embarrassed that he stayed far away until I sealed the bargain.

The stone is gorgeous, at least to my eyes

. It is untreated, almost loupe clean, trillion cut with color similar to the triangular one that Anna posted. I haven''t had any buyer remorse; well, not yet

. I’ll try to take some pictures using my dumb Minolta and post them in the forum

 

[widget]

Maxspinel....CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

As I was reading your post, I started to worry that you''d "strayed" from your original plan.....Whew! I really agree that usually your first impressions/gut reactions are right, and that the moment must be seized!

I can''t wait to see a picture!

Are you going to mount it? how??

widget

PS: Really cute your husband being embarrassed by your bargaining. Congrats on your success, and "unreasonableness"

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/26/2005 11:35:52 PM
Author: widget
Maxspinel....CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

I can''t wait to see a picture!

Are you going to mount it? how??

widget

I was so tempted to get a Tsavorite because one of the dealers was offering a very competitive quote for a medium dark tone and highly saturated 3.7 ct for $1200/ct. I know I can bargain it down to at least $1000/ct. It was a very nice stone even though I never like very saturated color like "red" and "dark emerald green"; I''ve always preferred brighter and lighter colors like "pink" and "mint".

You might have to wait a little on the pictures since my minolta Dimage was such a dog. I could not even post a decent picture of the pink sapphire that I got 3 months ago. As far as the mounting, I think I need somthing more protective since garnet is fairly soft, only 7 to 7.5 on Mohr''s scale. The dealer who sold me the stone was trying to persuade me to mount it as a pendant; he was so concerned that I would set the stone too high and thus damage his precious stone. He saw the way that I set my pink sapphire, it is very high like a solitary with small diamonds surrounding the stone. He told me that he did not like it and it is definitely not the style for the "mint"

. Since it is the 1st trillion that I have, I don''t really have any idea yet; any advice?

 

[belle]

congrats maxspinel! i am soo happy to hear that you purchased your mint!

i really really wish we could see a picture of it

i think the trilliant shape would look stunning as a pendant, and it would be safer than a ring...but it''s yours now...do what you want with it! do you have any ideas?

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/27/2005 12:12:05 AM
Author: maxspinel

As far as the mounting.... The dealer who sold me the stone ...was so concerned that I would set the stone too high and thus damage his precious stone. He saw the way that I set my pink sapphire, it is very high like a solitary with small diamonds surrounding the stone. He told me that he did not like it and it is definitely not the style for the ''mint''...

Just seen your latest posts about the mint garnet and been smilin so wider my collegue accross the room thought I switched desks with the Cheshire Cat! Good for you.

I am writing this, because I share the worry of the gem dealer that his prized finds might end in an overly high & insecure setting. It doesn''t seem that many jewelers would care to consider the safety of the gems against the latest weird fashion their customers might be inspired by. Of course, I do not know either your thoughts about these gems or your jeweler - so this is a generic remark. That sort of policy may follow the line that ''the customer is always right'' but this does not change the sad fate of fine gemstones that end a mile over someone''s finger.
Oh well, do you like bezels at all? The halo settings you mentioned are also safe, if made low (as low as the gem allows or about 6-7mm off the finger, whichever comes less) and if the girdle of the gem is set flush with the halo (a hair above, or inside a bezel) the traditional way. Like THIS party-color ring down here or THIS or THIS. Some settings ignore this because off the rack rings can only match the size of the stones by pure coincidence. The high prongs simply allow stones of different sizes to be set in the same setting and this irronically makes it less safe for the larger and finer gems (because to set a large stone in a small setting, it needs to get set higher - and less safe). Perhaps you may not even get them ''cheap'', but someone did...

With such fine stones it would be a pitty... In a ring, the crown will take in wear anyway, but that is allot less bad than chips off the girdle in a high, exposed setting.
You might imagine your pictures are very, very keenly awaited

 

[valeria101]

How much do you HATE these below?

Someone didn't want these sapphires hurt !


Btw. The large pink trillion is listing J121 HERE

 

[valeria101]

Now, I really do not think that fine, well made, wearable and safe rings are only to be found at over the top addresses. Perhaps these ones care to post online more or there is some other sort of bias involved

(nicer pictures), but in terms of safety and thoughtful design it never hurts to see what sort of treatment the luckiest precious stones get. Well, IMO - as usual.

The picture below tried to collect some classics that are the most wearable, timeless designs I know of. It seems reasonable to me that a jeweler setting a very valuable gemstone would consider its safety very seriously. So... these pieces make good examples, I would think.

If a design seems a long distance from the classic proportions, my first question is - well, is it wearable and safe? Many times the answer is not so. And I do preffer the simple shapes of modern design myself (Stuart Moore's pieces are a good example online). If the ring in cause is glass, than well - why not. One can rish syntetic material on an over the top fashionable thing and that's part of the sim fun. But it seems that your rings will be allot about showing up a precious, rare gemstone - not the wire nderneath.

Hope this does not sound too bad.

 

[MJO]

Date: 9/26/2005 11:17:14 PM
Author: maxspinel

I went to the Gem show this weekend and found it again. The mint garnet was still there, as dazzling as the last time I saw it. However, like any women, I couldn’t made up my mind and I started surveying the cost of nearly every Tsavorite and mint grossular garnet I could find in the show.

Tsavarite:
Medium dark tone, highly saturated green (3-4 cts, good cut): $1200 to $2500/ct
Medium tone with some yellowish secondary tint (2-3 cts, ok cut): $650 to $1000/ct


Mint Grossular Garnet:
Medium green to bluish green (3-4 cts): $900 to $2200/ct
Light yellowish green (4 – 8 cts): $340 - $500/ct
Light yellowish green to light green (2 cts): $240/ct


Tsavorite is very hot and the mint has gained some popularities as I see a couple more dealers carrying it. More choices confuse one’s mind and I was agonizing between a Tsavorite and mint garnet; not really over beauty but the economic aspect of value. Since “mint” is low saturation of “green”; low saturation combined with a light tone means less value. With the same money, I can get a lighter Tsavorite instead of a deeper “mint” garnet. Finally, I had to clear my mind and remembered the lessons learnt:
1. Trust your first impression and your instinct. If the stone dazzles you, get it.
2. Collect what you like, not what is popular.
3. Seize the opportunity since the same stone seldom appears again and I am so lucky it is still there.




I went back to the original dealer with the “mint” garnet and started bargaining. It was Sunday 3:00 pm and the show closed at ~ 4:00 pm. With great reluctance, the dealer let it go at $700/ct. He gave me a long lecture about how unreasonable I was to expect such a discount on an unusual/spectacular piece. My husband was so embarrassed that he stayed far away until I sealed the bargain.

The stone is gorgeous, at least to my eyes

. It is untreated, almost loupe clean, trillion cut with color similar to the triangular one that Anna posted. I haven''t had any buyer remorse; well, not yet

. I’ll try to take some pictures using my dumb Minolta and post them in the forum

Hi Maxspinel,

It''s never unreasonable to ask someone to take less than their asking price. All they can do is say no. You got lucky. The dealer probubly needed the cash or else he wouldn''t have let it go for the price you offered. You got it on the low end of the range. As I said tsavorite in that size is $1,500 - $2000/ct and mint Grosslar is 1/2 to 3/4 of tsavorite. The low range would be $1,500 X 1/2 which is $750/ct. I think you got a deal. Congrats.

 

[maxspinel]

Date: 9/27/2005 11:22:12 AM
Author: valeria101

Ana,
The left one is the style that the dealer recommended and I hated it very badly. The right one I do like; it is almost the same style that I set my yellow diamond except it has two bands on the shank except one.

I tried all night to take a picture but none came out any good.

The whole picture including the stone and even the white paper where the stone sits turn brownish. I am not sure if it is caused by the incandescent lighting. I tried for two hours with no luck. I gave up since they all looked so crappy. I''ll try again. Also, need some hint to upload pictures, especially more than one.

Thanks

 

[maxspinel]

This is what I got after two hours. The whole stone including the paper that it sits on turns brown. Not sure if it is the incandescent lighting. Need some help. No wonder everyone is complaining that it is hard to capture the color. This picture makes the stone looks like a yellowish Tsavorite

. Will try again tomorrow

 

[maxspinel]

I tried again and again and AGAIN

I realized then the camera needs to be adjusted for white balance so the picture won''t show up brownish because of the incandescent light.

The color seems ok now but the stone is not very focused. It is probably due to the hand shaking in low lights for this camera. I also shot the photo with the stone still in the box with the clear plastic on the top. Don''t know any other way to secure the stone.

Will try again with natural light and a tripod. I can''t believe that I am doing all this photo experiment. I am just a point, shoot and go person

.

 

[belle]

wow..look how different the stone looks in those two pictures! i hope you will keep working on it maxspinel. i would love to see more pics of that beauty!

 

[maxspinel]

I got myself a mini tripod and tried it again

. This is the best that i can do for now. i can''t capture the sparkle of the stone. I am not sure how to play with the lighting, contrast with the background and etc, etc.

The color seems to be darker than the actual stone. I''ll try to take some shots during the weekend in natural light and see how it goes.

 

[maxspinel]

The problem about posting the image is you can''t never preview it. The color looks ok on the monitor but the resolution is not good. It looks a lot better on the photosuite. I used very high resolution to take the photo, crop it and resize it.

Not sure what i did wrong this time. Any tips?

 

[maxspinel]

I am so sorry that this has become an experiment of our photo skills. This time I save it as the highest jpeg quality. Don''t know if it''ll make any difference since I can''t preview it.

I wish I know more about this subject so i don''t have to do it by trial and error.