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Michael Jackson's doctor doesn't stand a chance

kenny

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Witnesses have testified that while administering CPR Dr. Murray TOOK A BREAK to order one of Jackson's bodyguards to bag up all the profonol bottles, in three layers of bags, BEFORE telling anyone to call 911.

When the paramedics arrived, and saw the IV stand and an IV in Jackson's leg they asked what drugs were administered.
Murray responded, a mild sedative, he never mentioned profonol.

When paramedics asked how long Jackson had "been down" Murray said about a minute before the 911 call though all the paramedics say the state of the body indicates he was dead much earlier.

During attempts to revive Jackson Murray claimed to feel a pulse in Jackson's groin.
The parametics stopped CPR(which can indicate a false pulse since it pumps blood) and felt the groin and did not feel a pulse.
Murray is trying to conceal that Jackson was long-dead.

Paramedics testified MJ may be alive today if Murray called 911 immediately and told them that profonol was in Jackson's body.
 

Maisie

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I've been watching the trial. You are right, its not looking good for the doctor.
 

tyty333

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Yep, I saw that part today where the EMT was testifying and said Dr. Murray didnt mention the profonol. Also when Dr. Murray asked
one of the body guards to collect up a bunch of stuff and put it in a plastic bag. The guy thought he was doing it so it could be sent
with MJ to the hospital so they could see what he was on...appearantly the bag of stuff (profonol bottles etc.) was disposed of by
Dr. Murray. Cover up, cover up, cover up...I'm assuming Dr. Murray didnt mean to kill him but he used so horrendously bad care
and then tried to cover it up. :nono:

MJ should not be dead.

Edit - Kenny or anyone else...do you think Dr. Murray will take the stand? I'm thinking he might. :???:
 

kenny

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tyty333|1317422888|3030074 said:
- Kenny or anyone else...do you think Dr. Murray will take the stand? I'm thinking he might. :???:
I have no idea but I hope so.
I'm very curious what he'd say.
 

Imdanny

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I'm glad this case has been brought to justice. It could have been a situation where the perpetrator was able to cover it up but as horrible as this is at least it's seeing the light of day.
 

kenny

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I think MJ was addicted to drugs and people with that kind of money will always surround themselves with people who will get them what they want.
If Dr. Murray said no to MJ he knew there were a zillion other "doctors" happy to take this plum job.

I'm certainly not defending him, but I think this was a lose lose arrangement for the doctor.
A wiser doctor would have walked away.
 

Amys Bling

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kenny|1317450791|3030416 said:
I think MJ was addicted to drugs and people with that kind of money will always surround themselves with people who will get them what they want.
If Dr. Murray said no to MJ he knew there were a zillion other "doctors" happy to take this plum job.

I'm certainly not defending him, but I think this was a lose lose arrangement for the doctor.
A wiser doctor would have walked away.

Totally agree. Maybe dr. Murray thought he could safely manage the drug abuse/use.
 

Imdanny

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I'd like to point out that as a doctor he would have had protocols to follow regarding drug abuse. Clearly, he didn't follow them.

So I'm thinking that his motivation was greed, and I'd like to know the details of what happened.

He could have called 911. They didn't even have a chance to save him. :angryfire: :nono:
 

rosetta

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He was out of order. He never should have administered propofol at home. It's an anaesthetic and should only be given in a setting with access to resus equipment. His greed and desire to keep his client happy has been his undoing.

He is guilty of gross professional misconduct, if not out and out manslaughter. But I understand it is manslaughter charges that he is facing now. If he is acquitted, then he should still face charges of misconduct.
 

JewelFreak

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I think they under-charged this crime. Maybe a PS lawyer could comment?

They did involuntary manslaughter because there was no intent to kill. There was reckless indifference to life....doesn't that qualify as 2nd-degree murder? (It does on Law & Order. :geek: )

He gave propofol & then left the room -- I don't believe MJ dosed himself & the dr's responsibility is the same either way. Where did this joker go to med school...or did he? Didn't even know how to do CPR. I think MJ was dead for a little while before the dr. returned & found him -- in other words, he leaves MJ hooked up to propofol & goes off for a nice break, leaving him alone. From what the security guy said, it was only a few minutes before he called 911 so MJ hadn't just died when the EMTs arrived, as they noted.

This was bound to happen one time or another, sadly enough. Some hanger-on will always help someone destroy himself if there's money involved (think Anna Nicole Smith). In this slob's case, $150K a month. For that the "doctor" sold his soul.

--- Laurie
 

zoebartlett

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I haven't been following the trial too closely, but I think it's ridiculous that a doctor would agree to administer Propofol to someone in his home. Clearly, MJ was used to getting his own way, and the whole thing is just so weird, tragic, sad, etc. Didn't Murray ever stop to think about what his actions were doing and what could happen? I guess not. :rolleyes:
 

kenny

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rosetta|1317467534|3030469 said:
He was out of order. He never should have administered propofol at home. It's an anaesthetic and should only be given in a setting with access to resus equipment. His greed and desire to keep his client happy has been his undoing.

He is guilty of gross professional misconduct, if not out and out manslaughter. But I understand it is manslaughter charges that he is facing now. If he is acquitted, then he should still face charges of misconduct.
Can that happen, face other charges if acquitted?
Would that not be double jeopardy?
Is there a lawyer in the house?
 

JewelFreak

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Double jeopardy, yeah, Kenny. Can't think how they could charge him again for the same crime. It happens if somebody's acquitted of, say, murder, in State court & the Feds then charge 'em with a human rights violation by depriving the victim of his life. That to me is still double jeopardy & makes me grind my teeth. Don't see how it would apply in this case.

--- Laurie
 

kenny

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OJ was found not guilty of murder, but they they tried him again and he was found "liable".
 

y2kitty

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JewelFreak|1317480031|3030567 said:
I think they under-charged this crime. Maybe a PS lawyer could comment?
Nah. Think about all the notable crimes where people have been overcharged and walked away because of it - Casey Anthony, Jason Williams, etc etc.
 

jstarfireb

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rosetta|1317467534|3030469 said:
He was out of order. He never should have administered propofol at home. It's an anaesthetic and should only be given in a setting with access to resus equipment. His greed and desire to keep his client happy has been his undoing.

He is guilty of gross professional misconduct, if not out and out manslaughter. But I understand it is manslaughter charges that he is facing now. If he is acquitted, then he should still face charges of misconduct.
This. As an anesthesia provider, I'm horrified to see such misuse of anesthetic drugs. Anesthetics belong in a hospital (or surgical center, ER, etc.), not at home.

I'd like to point out one thing, though...there's no "antidote" for propofol, so it's not at all clear that he would be alive had Murray told the truth to the medics. I think that was a bit of sensationalism. The treatment would still have been the same (CPR including drugs like epinephrine to raise the blood pressure and hope for the best).
 

JewelFreak

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kenny|1317502783|3030748 said:
OJ was found not guilty of murder, but they they tried him again and he was found "liable".
Different. He was acquitted in criminal court, tried by the gov't for a crime. The Browns sued him in civil court, where he was found liable for her death. A civil trial isn't brought by the gov't but by a citizen & the respondant cannot be sentenced to criminal punishment.

The standards of proof are different too: beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal court; by a preponderance of evidence in civil cases. Lower requirements to find against a respondant (they're not called defendants in civil court) when someone sues.
 

vsc

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JewelFreak|1317480031|3030567 said:
He gave propofol & then left the room -- I don't believe MJ dosed himself & the dr's responsibility is the same either way. Where did this joker go to med school...or did he? Didn't even know how to do CPR. I think MJ was dead for a little while before the dr. returned & found him -- in other words, he leaves MJ hooked up to propofol & goes off for a nice break, leaving him alone. From what the security guy said, it was only a few minutes before he called 911 so MJ hadn't just died when the EMTs arrived, as they noted.
So, medical folks, could you explain something? Do these anesthesia drugs have addictive potential? Is it similar to opioid (morphine) addiction? Is it really that addictive, given its dangers, than a celeb would choose it over other drugs (assuming $$ is not a factor here)? Or would there be other reasons he chooses it?

If I'm correct, it should be pretty obvious that medical supervision would be necessary when administering such a drug - I can picture a celeb thinking they don't need a hospital, because they have staff on hand/equipment/whatever. Why would there not be at least a nurse watching/monitoring him? To me it almost sounds like a case of assisted suicide. Probably wouldn't change the outcome of the trial, but I'm curious if that would be a possible explanation. I'm not familiar with the speculation about MJ's mental health at the time of his death, so I might be completely off.
 

luv2sparkle

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I think MJ bears a lot of responsibility for his own death. I think he was used to getting what he wanted and was addicted to a number of
drugs-he just had to pay the right Dr. to get what he wanted. The good Dr. was interested in getting the paycheck most of all, and not saying no to Michael. But MJ's celebrity wielded a lot of power so he clearly could and would have got anything he wanted.

The Dr.should be held responsible for his actions. The Jackson family have been using Michael for years and it feels like they are still
using his death for their own selfish reasons. One just wrote a book that just happened to come out as the trial was about to start.
 

MissGotRocks

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I would love to know who came up with this idea. Stars have been awakened for years with uppers and put back to sleep with downers. We've all read about those folks so who came up with the idea to administer this drug? My understanding of being placed under anesthesia is that it does not provide the same type of restful sleep that normal slumber provides. I guess he must have had high drug tolerances after years of abuse and maybe this was the only way he could get immediate sleep. I just would love to know who came up this idea.

It's clear to me that Dr. Murray clearly violated his role as a physician. I'm sure the lure of big dough was hard to turn down but you have to know that there would be risks and at the very least if this came out in the open, you'd lose your license to practice medicine. A good cardiologist has the ability to make lots of money in the good old fashioned way - one patient at a time. Greed has been the downfall of many and it's a shame. I've heard some of his patients speak about what an excellent doctor they thought he was but at least one testified that he felt abandoned as a patient after he took over Michael's care.

Michael was a gifted entertainer but had his own issues and demons to deal with. I'm sure if not Dr. Murray there would have been someone to take the job. Too bad that Dr. Murray didn't walk away from this one. I would have no redeeming services to offer someone of Jackson's ilk but even if I did, you'd have to at least have the sense that you would be walking into no man's land with someone of his magnitude. He certainly had the money to pay to have it his way and common sense would tell you that if he was paying you that kind of money, he's be asking you to cross the line somewhere.
 
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