Memoire Brand online

[AgentRHE]

Hi all:

Long time no see.

So, it''s wedding band time, and my fiancé is interested in a band designed by Memoire, which she saw in some bridal magazine of some kind. Basically, it''s got evenly spaced rectangular stones around it, as in Stone-Space-Stone-Space.

Looks pretty cool... but we haven''t been able to find anything that looks like it anywhere else, nor any evidence of it online. Anybody know any good sites that sell this designer? Or, any places that sell this style of ring? (Not that my lackluster description helps much)

Thanks!

 

[set2374]

Memoire was recently acquired by and merged into Hearts on Fire. You may want to try contacting HOF for a listing of dealers near you and also for a listing of authorized Memoire dealers. Good luck!

 

[mrssalvo]

try solomonbrothers

and billbarnes

 

[MissAva]

Oh and DeNatale carries their line as well I think that is where BlueDawg got her set!

 

[AgentRHE]

Ah ha! Thanks! Here''s the ring! I was WAAAY off on that rectangular diamond thing... but she confirmed that this is the one.

Anybody know any guys online who sell something like this (without the mark-up of a big name) or could replicate it?

 

[mrssalvo]

I had Whiteflash make my eterntiy band. i''m sure they could make something similar and for far less the memoire mark up..

 

[AgentRHE]

OK. I shot Whiteflash an email... so we'll see what they say. She's got REALLY small hands (size 3.5) and likes a really thin band... so I imagine that might keep the cost down.

Thanks everybody!

 

[mrssalvo]

hehe, i wear a 3.5, don''t get your hopes up

you also might try calling them and letting them know to look for your email. they get tons of it a day and I always find calling them first is the best way to get a quick response.

 

[Lynn B]

Wow, what a beautiful band. I love it! And I''m sure WF can take care of you.

>> (to be read like a high school cheer!

)

Keep us posted!

Lynn

 

[mepearl53]

Folks are we talking about copying someone else''s designs? Although not all of Memoire''s designs are copyrighted this one could be and a direct copy is a infringement of Memoire''s work. Being a dealer of theirs this is a bit disturbing that another dealer would be willing to copy directly their design. I just finished reading a article in a trade magazine where a dealer in the south directly copied a Whitney Boin design and a suit has been filed for $150,000.00 in damages plus fees. Having as many designers as I do I am a bit sensitive to others knocking off others designs. I know what goes into their work to put these lines together and what we do to present these pieces to our clients.

 

[MissAva]

What if you dont like part of the design...ie the head/basket? and you want it a little bigger? Is that a no no? I dont want to get anyone in trouble and I was thinking of doing that...

 

[Lynn B]

Bill,

Good point, and one that is easy to lose sight of sometimes. Thank you for your post.

Although in all honesty, whenever I think of a "custom job" I always think of a "new creation". Maybe a photo was the original inspiration, but I guess I''ve always assumed that the client and/or the vendor will individualize and personalize the piece to some degree or another, creating a truly one-of-a-kind item.

Lynn

 

[mrssalvo]

Bill,
Is there any way to find out if it's copyrighted or not? Also, It was my understanding that a direct copy would be unethical and illegal but doing something similar, making a few modifications to better fit your needs was ok?
I would never recommend copying a designer's work "exactly." but I thought my suggestion of doing some similar was alright, like changing the width or thinkness of the band, the spaces between the diamonds, the size of the diamonds used etc...
Can you clarify this better?
.

 

[mepearl53]

Hi Lynn and mrssalvo. There is a fine line between a new creation and a existing piece. There was a big discussion about this last fall and everybody seems to have a different view on this topic. I believe my point then and it still exists today is if a person, directly knowing, that they are copying or make slight alterations to a existing piece is preforming a unethical act. Lets face it if a customer goes to a jeweler and shows them a picture of what they want and that jeweler says I can make it for you for less, they are IMHO preforming a unethical act. The ethical response would be, "I can''t ethically duplicate THIS designers work" Maybe they could find another design the customer would like but I would have to question one jeweler knocking off another''s work. Many will turn a blind eye to this issue and many customers will be happy getting a knock off. But I have been around a long time in the design industry and from what I''ve seen, and many of you can conquer, the knock off just are not as nice as the real designers work. I would treat this just as if my kids were taking a test in school and looked over and saw what another student put down for a answer and put that answer on their test. If I found out I would be pretty upset and their lesson would be on cheating! This is not how I would want my kids to be raised.

This is a wonderful forum and is open to many opinions and I respect that. But, it is difficult for me to know that others would resort to knowingly take part in others intellectual property. When we decided to put the large photographs up on our site one of the hesitations from the design world was, "won''t others down load your photos of my work and have them duplicated?" I told them some would probably do this and there was nothing we could do about it. I think the consumer has to demand more here of the jewelers. If the prices are to much ask the store for a break. If they won''t do it find someone else who can. The net people are about the most resourceful people I meet. There are people on this forum from all over the country and world for that. They must certainly have a relationship with a dealer of the products that can find a original of the jewelry that the customer can afford without resorting to knock offs. Let''s see if their jeweler can help the person find what they are looking for.

What would people think if the diamond grading reports were misrepresented? Trust is a big thing here and I think the sharing of knowledge will make topics more transparent for both the consumer, B&M and pure play dot-com to learn from one another. I have read this over and over on the value of the 4 C''s and I think it should also apply to what the 4 C''s go into.

 

[Lynn B]

I understand your position and see your point. Thank you for the post, Bill.

Lynn

 

[valeria101]

Weddingband.com used to list ''Memoire'' the brand...

And there are these:

at Christian Bauer

If the look is close, why not do one with squares

It wouldn''t be copycat after all.


Also, your description might fit a ''bar set'' wedding band... sort of remotely.

This one is by Facets. The bars between the stones can get wider too, I just couldn''t remember of an example.

I mentioned this because some sites show a ''Memoire'' band like that among others.
http://www.memoirejewelry.com/ does not work for me.

 

[CA2OH2005]

Hi there! Have a similar band which I posted on this thread

My wedding band from IMG Jewelers, Ohio

I never saw the Memoire band until recently and was happy that my husband picked my band for me.

Great minds think alike!

 

[AgentRHE]

Wow... look at the ethics debate! I'm back for a day and I cause all sorts of trouble.

We obviously aren't talking about completely copying something... but just doing something similiar to this. I think if I was looking to have an exact copy made and have a designer name stamped upon it... we'd have some problems.

But... it's not like the ring is particularly complex or anything... it's just ring-rock-ring-rock-ring-rock. I imagine if it was a sweeping and elaborate design, there would be some serious issues... but this thing seems pretty basic. It's probably impossible to patent "ring-rock-ring-rock-ring-rock."

 

[mepearl53]

Agent, you did cause anything. In the first part of you post you said you were looking for a ring by Memoire that your Fiancee was interested in. I forgot the second part of the question

Maybe some of the women could also help me with this. Being a male I will never understand how the woman processes design. What takes their heart and breath away. Having worked in a world of mostly woman''s fashion I do know they have a eye for "the look" "the ring" I see many young men find what their love is looking for and some who mistake that look as just any look that can be produced by just any one. This is not, in my experience, true. I have heard countless stories of dissatisfaction concerning the pieces the men bring home. I understand that the woman would like us on our own to go out and pick out the "perfect" piece and some men do. Most have trouble with this and feel like fish out of water when they go into the stores looking at jewelry. I would imagine that the net and forums like this are god sends for the male. You can ask questions and not feel like you have no clue what we are talking about or understanding the "why" of this. I have never worn a engagement ring, aquamarine earrings or a diamond necklace. I think I would feel quite silly or be misjudged severely. But, I have watched and listened to the reaction of a woman wearing or trying on such pieces. I don''t think there is a woman who loves jewelry that given the opportunity to get what she loves would turn it down all other concerns removed. In other words try, if you can to give her what she wants. Thank god my wife can''t find "shoes" forums

 

[browser]

Although the actions of having a ring created that is clearly inspired by a name-brand design may not be "ethical" depending on who you ask, it certainly can be quite legal. Most pieces are jewelry are protected by design patents--patents which protect an aesthetic end-product. However, design patents are very, very easy to get around (and extremely tough enforce most of the time). One only has to change the design very little...the thinking goes as little as 10%. If you have another jeweler create an exact replicate, yes that would violate their design patent and their copyright (many designers seek multiple protection forms). However, if you have another jeweler create a ring that is merely inspired and varied from the original design enough--and it isn''t that much--you can avoid their design patent AND their copyright. One doesn''t have to look far to see this principle in any number of things shoes, clothes (although the fashion industry works differently), furniture, glassware, dinnerware, watches. For instance, take Louis Vuitton bags...you''ll see similarly patterned bags in any number of stores (Nine West for instance)...white background with colored logo with light tan leather--all the women know what I''m talking about. Those are fine. However, the knock-offs one finds on Canal Street in NY that are actually take LV''s logo and "material" are not. The same with all those watches that clearly are meant to look like a Cartier tank watches and which are made from very reputable lower-end watch companies versus knock-offs you might find on Canal Street. It''s the difference between between "stealing" the inspiration and stealing the actual design.

 

[MissAva]

I know Tiffany&Co must not be too fond of all the knock of settings that are made to look as much like theirs as possible.

 

[mepearl53]

Browser, You''re correct. What if you had taken the time to come up with an idea or re-interpreted design of the past and you had spent lots of money to market your brand and your brand became recognized as YOUR reinterpretation of the brand: Would that not be "intellectual property"? Also, though I am a store in Michigan and Canal Street is not a place frequented by me, I have seen the knock offs on Canal Street in New York. Why is it that when the police come by on Canal Street that all the shops shutter their stores? I have seen the knock offs of many designer brands mostly in accessories and watches by these merchants. Most women will understand that they are seeing a knock off. For the most important symbol of love, I would assume that most women would not want other women to look over and understand that what they are wearing is a designer knock off. For travel, it might be fun for a woman to be able to have the look of a designer bag without the worry of value. Those who know will quickly assess what the bag truly is, as will they assess the jewelry. I would no more embarrass my wife by having someone judge her of wearing a cheap knock off and I would never recommend that to my clients.

 

[AgentRHE]

Before this spirals out of hand... nobody is talking about a making a "knock-off" We''re talking about producing in ring in a similar style to another, very simple ring. There''s nothing about this ring to make it particularly original, but the Memoire one happened to be the first she saw. I imagine, with leg work, we could find six other rings that look just like this, without having to pay the Memoire mark up.

That''s what''s going on here: legwork.

My fiance doesn''t care that the original ring was made by Memoire. She has no desire to have a ring that will pass as being designed by Memoire. She just likes the rock-plat-rock-plat look. Any ring that we get (should we decide that this style is the way to go) will not be branded "Remoire" or "Memoir" or any other similiar sort of thing.

It''s a simple ring, it''s a simple style, and asking around if anybody makes or can make anything similiar is hardly the same thing as producing carbon copy Lucindas, branding them "Tiffani" and selling them at a downtown kiosk.

 

[Maxine]

Did you look on Facets - Signed Pieces???? They have some that might be something like that....

 

[browser]

Bill, I don''t think any woman would want a knock-off ring in the Canal Street tradition--an inspired ring yes (have one myself), a knock-off labelled Tiffani (as Agent suggested) no. However, as I noted in my intial post I was speaking only to the legality of it all NOT the ethics of it all. That''s my nature as a lawyer to be (pesky Bar next week). The ethics of it all, as you suggested earlier, are a personal decision and I certainly appreciate your viewpoint as a businessman. My reason for chiming in was only because I didn''t want to leave people scared about taking designs to jeweler and saying, "I want something like this." That is legally fine. It''s just when they take it in and say, "I want THIS" and the jeweler obliges that it becomes a problem...just as in the lawsuit you referenced. (I don''t think anyone in this thread was suggesting AgentRHE do the later!)

And yes, most of what you described would fall under intellectual property as that expression covers anything that can be patented, trademarked, copyrighted, etc. (I say can because even if a company hasn''t registered all their designs with the government that upon their creation the creator holds the intellectual copyright to them! So, even if a design isn''t officially copyrighted, it would still be a no no to go copy it exactly!) However, US IP law is such that the rights and protections given by it at times are severely limited--which can be a blessing or a curse, just depends on who you ask!

PS I don''t know if I made it clear in my original posts but the knock-offs sold on Canal Street that are exact replicas (except in the quality department!) are definitely, 100% illegal. I was using them as a counterexample to the legal inspired pieces you see in Nine West or Payless Shoes or Target and other reputable chain stores. But I''m not sure if I muddled all that.

 

[mepearl53]

Browser, Thank you for telling it like it is. Most designers do not have the capabilities of taking the legal steps to defend their IP. The suit I referred to will cost the designer $45,000.00 and at best they may recover their legal costs. The knock off artist''s know this and continue to steal their creations.

I was introduced to the Canal St experience a few years ago. Wow! They, the merchants, had a system in place to alert the whole area when the police we in the area. They could lock down a stall in 15 seconds or less and if the police had a warrant move the counterfeit goods through the back door to the next stall.