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Maximising US$11K for a Diamond - Help!!

I

infinitedusk87

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
9
Hi, Pricescope ..

I've been on the hunt for a rock for several months now to no avail, I think it's partly analysis paralysis - I'd love a brains-trust to bounce my options off of if you'd be so willing :)

Basically, I have US$11K to spend on a rock (setting will be on top of that). I'm based in Australia, and am working with local jewellers, as well as trawling James Allen, WF, Adiamor, and BlueNile. My "ideal" rock is round, 1.35 ct+, H&A (super ideal proportions) - but I'm having a really hard time of it.

There's a few things in the way -

a) Discomfort with a 'H' stone - I'm setting in platinum (solitaire), and fear it'd be too yellow .. it's cutting out a lot of options though, so would love your take on how H typically shows up in platinum (I'm currently looking at F/G).

b) Discomfort not being able to gauge clarity properly on WF (the glittery video doesn't let me get up close and personal with inclusions) - I'm a trusting guy, but not being able to see how inclusions show up on their VS1/VS2 stones makes me nervous ..

c) Not knowing the best place to compromise for my budget .. I'm adamant that cut is most important, I'd like to stick within my carat range, but after that point I'm swung majorly by trying to find a "mind-clean" stone that looks good on a certificate .. how important is clarity if your stone is super ideal? Are there specific inclusions that are more detrimental to overall appearance?

Thanks, all .. I've been reading through countless threads these last few days (I wish I found this community months ago), would love your thoughts on the above + any recommendations based on what I'm after ...
 
OK, so your budget is essentially 10K USD right? (since you need to account for the 10% import duties to Australia). With that in mind, here are two very nice choices for you to consider that are both G/VS:

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamo...ce=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2017

For both of these, the angles are complementary and the videos look nice. You would need to ask for IdealScope images of both to confirm light performance.

Regarding the color, that is highly personal. You need to check with the intended recipient regarding their color preferences. Some can see color in an H, especially from the side. Some can see the color and are not bothered by it. This really depends on the person.

Have you and the intended recipient gone diamond shopping together? This might be a good way to determine the color preference. Go into a reputable store selling at least GIA XXX or AGS diamonds (no IGI or EGL certs, as the color in these can be way off) and look at a range of colors from D to H. Have them lined up in from of you and see if you can tell the difference. It may also be good to take an H diamond out of the jewelry store lights (where all diamonds look white) and out into the real world to see how the color would affect you.
 
I’ll comment on the colour - H will not look yellow. I have a EGL H OEC (so likely lower colour than that) in platinum and it’s colourless. Not just face up but looking from the side. I have to look super hard and second guess myself a little to see tint. Now I’m not someone who scores perfectly on the colour acuity tests but I do score well. Unless your girl is super picky about a completely colourless diamond, you’ll be fine with an H. You may well see the difference between a D, F and H (and I’d hope you would) if they’re next to each other.. but a diamond on its own? You’re unlikely to have any issues.
Clarity - go to James Allen, find some VS1/2s. Spot the inclusions in the zoomed in view. Then zoom right out to actual size and see what you can spot. Unless you or your girl have eagle eyes, VS is a great clarity to be looking at. You can also use the light return images on WF’s site to work out if any of the inclusions affect the light return - you can see them in those images as well as the super zoomed ones. If you’re really after mind clean, look for inclusions that are around the outside of the diamond and not directly under the table. Often those get lost in the sparkle and play of light really easily.
TL;DR H VS is a lot of people’s sweet spot when it comes to balancing colour and clarity against size and cut.
 
OP
Good luck with your hunt, this WF stone is a little out of your budget, but if you could find a G/SI1, you might be OK
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965466.htm?source=pricescope

You might want to get in touch with Lesley at BGD and tell your parameters.
Recent negative feedback at JA

Edit: agree with above poster, and H would not look yellow if cut properly, here is an example and will save you a few $$.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965453.htm?source=pricescope
 
Last edited:
I absolutely agree with the recommendation to have the intended view diamonds of various colors in person to determine their color preference. But to answer your question, H color I personally find very white facing.

Here is another slightly smaller choice: https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/1.212-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104099574041 and right now the vendor is running an up to 8% off discount on colorless stones.
 
Thanks for the initial responses! ..

I've been flicked over another rock from my jeweller, would love your take - https://pck2.azureedge.net/stone-mu...a.htm?stoneId=4827160174&showMediaType=Video# .. it's going for ~US$10.5K (excl taxes). H&A symmetry has me a little nervous, as does the inclusions on the cert ..

@TreeScientist, well called on the import duties - I'm actually excluding those (so, in effect, the budget's US$12.1K w/duties). Understood on the colour preference. What's your take on how these two rocks face up from a cut perspective? I don't know if I've just been influenced by the James Allen True Hearts images a little too much, but I've become accustomed to looking out for defined, black arrows when looking at a diamond face-up (i.e., link) .. is that all just marketing? How much emphasis should I place on the face-up photos on these websites vs. the idealscope imagery do you think (when hunting for H&A) .. ?

@foxinsox, thanks a lot for the POV on colour - I'm getting a lot more comfortable with the idea of H, assuming the cut is super ideal. To your point, I'm rarely able to spot inclusions when zoomed out .. I think it's mostly mental to be honest (I know it's there), knowing the table is marked just irks me given the investment. I've actually just asked WF for non-sparkly videos and they're working on that for me as we speak, which will hopefully help .. ! Noted on VS being a pretty reliable bet either way though .. would you consider an AGS VS2 equivalent to a GIA VS2?

@WillyDiamond, that's a beautiful looking rock - super clean. A little out of my budget though, you're right. In saying that, I want to be realistic - if that's what it costs to get a cut like that, then I need to work out what I'm willing to pay. WF are preparing an alternate video of the second stone you've sent me there, thanks for that - will take a look close up ..

@SimoneDi, thanks for the referral - I haven't come across BGD before! Keen to nudge the weight up a little more, will have a look through their catalogue. Appreciate your inputs on colour too.
 
The stone you just posted from your jeweler looks nice, but at 10.5k before taxes, I would say it is over-priced. I would much rather have one of the ones that I posted for 9.3K.

Speaking of that, I see that the one that I posted from FourMine just sold. Did you place it on reserve?

I really like the 1.29 from Yadav jewelry.
http://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamonds/videos/2913645

I saw it listed on B2C jewels for 9.9K, so the price they have it listed for is extremely reasonable. Regarding the arrow question, a lot of that comes down to the quality of the video. James Allen does have excellent videos, which is why the diamonds look much different in their videos than other websites.

The Yadav diamond is well-cut, so I would expect the arrows to be sharp IRL. This is why you need an IdealScope for it though. You can usually tell how "black" the arrows will be in person by looking at the contrast of the arrows in the IdealScope image.

B2C does pricematch, and I think they are a slightly better dealer to work with than Yadav (never heard of them), as B2C will provide you with IdealScope, ASET, etc. images for their diamonds. Here's the listing on B2C:
https://www.b2cjewels.com/diamond-search/dd/11636780/Round-Diamond-G-Color-VS1-Clarity

I would ask them for the IdealScope/ASET images for this diamond, and also ask them for the price match of the Yadav price.
 
Here's you a steal.....BGD Blue G SI1 @ $9,700 minus 8% = $8,924

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.203-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041006

The stone will be eye clean, and you can have Brian or Lesley confirm. But do some research and you will learn BGD is known for their superior cut and high quality stones.

What I really like about this is your concern with color. It's a G so gets you above the H hurdle. But it also has medium fluorescence, which helps whiten the stone a little more. Another factor you have going is it's a super ideal H&A stone, and that too gives a visual effect of being whiter. In short, this stone will face up icy white!

The weight is a little less than your target of 1.35ct; however, the dimensions of the stone you last posted were just a smidge over 7mm x 7mm. This stone is 6.83mm x 6.85mm. This is just barely detectable with the human eye, and it's very, very minor. The weight sounds more significant, but remember weight is a volume calculation that involves the horizontal (L & W) planes multiplied by the vertical (D or depth) plane. In essence, part of the carat weight you pay more money for is in vertical depth that you will never ever see.

FYI, call Lesley ASAP and place on hold while you consider. Also, ask them to load up all the remaining videos and images. Normally they have a sparkle view, eye clean view, ASET and arrows image. On the Blue series they don't post hearts images, but they are available upon request (I bought a BGD Blue myself ;)2).

Last, but not least, read up on the fluorescence as I'm sure you will have questions. Watch the video where Brian explains it, and also watch the unveiling of the beautiful BGD Blue stone that a customer ordered from them.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/
 
Oh yeah, to see how various stones size to one another, check out this site. You can simply enter the carat weight and it APPROXIMATES the dimensions.

However, I would encourage you to use ACTUAL dimensions so you get more accurate results. Also, you can put in ring size, and a few other factors to mimick what you are actually buying.

https://www.diamdb.com/
 
Recently bought a diamond with very similar criteria/reservations that you had. From research early on, I decided cut was most important to me and eventually migrated away from well cut stones on JA/BN to super-ideal vendors like WF and BGD. To me, buying from one of them was worth the premium to know you are getting excellent quality. They are also far, far easier to deal with from a customer service standpoint.

I was trying to maximize size, so similar to you I wanted to compromise where able. Was looking mainly at G/H originally and thought that seemed to be the sweet spot for color. Going H would certainly open up your options a whole lot. I would recommend taking your SO to see colors in person, as others have mentioned. Very helpful. I ended up going 1 grade above her "minimum" because things can change with time- never hurts to have a buffer. I also got a med fluorescent stone, which will help out the color even more in certain lighting. Highly recommend some fluorescence- drops the price and can improve performance.

For clarity, I certainly fell for the 'mind clean' idea. During my search, it seemed like color impacted price far more than clarity, so I saw little reason to drop below VS2 to make sure I got a great stone. I can't speak to the impact of different types/locations of inclusions, but I tried to avoid central ones. VS stones are certainly on a spectrum- I saw some reports that scared me and others that looked more like a VVS grade.

With your criteria, I think you should have no problem getting a great super-ideal stone within your budget. I'd recommend looking at several vendors to get an idea of pricing. When I looked not too long ago, Whiteflash and Brian Gavin were the most competitively priced for what I was looking for. The BG Blue line is an awesome option, but they have very limited stock so it's very hit or miss.
 
Echoing what other people said, H is not too yellow. I would personally be comfortable with a J even in platinum, so two grades lower, although some people are more color sensitive than I am.

Also, the vast majority of VS stones are eye clean. But you can have Whiteflash or James Allen check for you. Remember the videos on these sites are 10x or more magnification. My personal rule of thumb is if you can't see the inclusion in a photo that's 4x the size of your actual diamond (so 7mm x 4 = 28mm) it's highly unlikely you'll be able to see it in real life.
 
32516271-2C8B-42F2-BBE6-956C279EEEEE.jpeg If you get a super ideal an H will look amazing. I have an untrained eye, but to me my J from WF is as white as I could want it. This is a shot from last night at dusk so low light.
 
Thankyou so much guys - this is all hugely helpful. Really appreciate the inputs on colour here.

WF have shot across a handful of videos with less fire, still can't clearly see clarity in them though (non-HD) - but it sounds as though the experience with this dealer on here has been quite positive. I'm following up on the below - nudging a slightly higher budget ..

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3965453,3965468,3986357,3788899

I'm refreshing every public platform known to man, haha (B2C was a new one for me - that has proven to be really helpful) - I came across the below rock thismorning, I'm struggling to interpret the ASET image though - what are our thoughts on the value here, it looks super clean for the price ..

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamon...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rarecarat

Cheaper on B2C - https://www.b2cjewels.com/diamond-search/dd/11618435/Round-Diamond-G-Color-VVS2-Clarity

@sledge, I'll chase down BG today - thanks for the reco.
 
RTFM, I've done some reading and see the green tones in that ASET image aren't ideal ...
 
If you're looking at stones that are listed on multiple websites and probably come from RapNet, Yekeutiel from IDJ and Martin Sheffield from USA Certed will generally sell those to you for the lowest markup. Martin's hard to get in touch with but people who've worked with him have good things to say.
 
The 1.424 H from WF is just awesome. That would be my best pick.
 
WillyDiamond said:
Next time you post a picture of your ring please give us notice to put on sunglasses first!
Click to expand...

Ha, thank you!! I was actually worried putting the picture up that people would be saying "no that looks totally J you silly girl!"
 
Okay team, I'm pretty close .. now actively engaged with WF, I've been told the two stones below are eye-clean at 5-6" -

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984592.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965453.htm

Question - why would a larger, H VS1 ACA (super clean on clarity) be less expensive than a smaller, H VS2 ACA .. ? I don't know if I'm being super pedantic here, but the H&A looks a little less symmetrical - could it be cut related .. ? Seeing a tiny kink at the bottom of the hearts has traditionally been enough to put me off committing, but I'm keen to hear just how much of a difference those slight abnormalities will have in reality ..

Apparently the two below are not eye-clean at 6" -

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986357.htm (the 1.424 ...)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986351.htm
 
The proportions look better to me on the more expensive one. 62% depth is quite high for a super ideal. Although it is a larger stone the diameter is actually less due to the higher depth %. If it were me I would choose the 61.2% depth.
 
infinitedusk87 said:
Okay team, I'm pretty close .. now actively engaged with WF, I've been told the two stones below are eye-clean at 5-6" -

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984592.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965453.htm

Question - why would a larger, H VS1 ACA (super clean on clarity) be less expensive than a smaller, H VS2 ACA .. ? I don't know if I'm being super pedantic here, but the H&A looks a little less symmetrical - could it be cut related .. ? Seeing a tiny kink at the bottom of the hearts has traditionally been enough to put me off committing, but I'm keen to hear just how much of a difference those slight abnormalities will have in reality ..
Click to expand...

Of the two you posted, I'd pick https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3984592.htm

Pricing between diamond is far more complex than the simple 4Cs we consider. Maybe they got a good price on the rough, they are dropping the price on some stones to generate interest or move items (maybe the have more in this range coming in from the suppliers), or one million other options. I'd take the discount and run with it!
 
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