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Matching loose diamond to HOF Setting

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MattyB83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
11
Hi, I wouldn't consider myself clueless when it comes to diamonds, but I feel like I'm over my head on this decision...

My girlfriend has hinted that she has always loved HOF settings. She also said that she prefers quality over size. I've identified the setting: Hearts on Fire Beloved Setting which will accomidate a .70 to .80 Carat Center.

HOF sells the complete ring in a variety of sizes. The .70 center is available for $9k (though my local jeweler). HOF quotes that ring with a center diamond of "between VS - SI clarity and G-H Color". I believe I can find a better diamond for less $$. Therefore, I'm leaning towards buying the setting and then sourcing my own stone.

My budget for a loose diamond is around $3 to $4k. I feel like I want a colorless stone (preferably F or E), but am totally stumped on whether to pay the extra money for a VVS2/VVS1 or stick with a VS1. I know the diamond is nestled in with several other diamonds, so that increases my confusion even more.

Any advice given the above? THANKS!

Here is a pic of the setting:

http://www.heartsonfire.com/images/Collection/488x488/BelovedR_3.png
 
VS2 is more the enough.

Your budget makes colorless VVS difficult, anyway.
 
With that setting, you won't see the pavilion of the diamond. At that carat weight, I think you'd easily be safe going to F or G or possibly even a high H color without worrying about it not looking white. Don't compromise much on cut, but even a G in a superideal will be quite white. In SI1 clarity, you can get a .8ct G (I think.)
 
deleted post
 
Michael C Fina sells HOF settings without the diamond, many local jewelers will do so as well, so if you think you can acquire the setting, that sounds right.

At .8ish, you can go to H VS2 (and possibly SI1). I have a .818 H SI1, it's white and eyeclean.

So, that Beloved setting is just a plain-shank halo with larger melee (approx 5-pointers, it looks like). Virtually anyone can create that for you, probably for much less than HOF, and you'll have more flexibility re: center stone size. We can recommend vendors for you if you'd rather go that route. Personally, I'd scale down the halo melee to no more than 3-pointers, to better emphasize the center stone.
 
Also, I don't know what your budget is for the setting, but you should be able get the same look in a setting with H&A melee for about $1,800-2,000 in white gold. That might allow you to get a larger center stone.
 
Thanks for the advice thus far!

To answer some questions:

I have had two jewelers offer to sell me the setting and add my own diamond. Apparently, they just need the diameter measurements of the center stone to send to HOF.

I like the fact that the surrounding stones are large. In person, the ring looks very unique. I find that a lot of halo type settings look too busy for my taste. As far as the pointers, since they share prongs, it really is not obvious at all.

I've definitely got some food for thought. I have some wiggle room in the budget, and if I end up with a VS stone, I may move closer to '.90 or even 1 carat center. The only problem is that the setting for that size is nearly 100% more...
 
One other thing. I have to admit, I like the HOF branding and am willing to pay for it, but am I being silly to pay nearly the same amount for the diamond as the setting?
 
Yes, IMO it's ridiculous to pay for the setting what you're paying for the diamond. It's a plain-shank "Lady Di" style halo with 5-point melee. Virtually any jeweler can recreate that for you with H&A melee for half the price of the HOF, or even less. I would certainly not pay double the price to upgrade the setting from .7ish to 1ct-ish. What's your total budget, and would you do white gold for the setting? I really think the setting should not exceed $2k, +/- $200. So send a pic of the HOF setting to Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, ERD, even Good Old Gold, and see what their quotes are to custom re-create that setting for about a 1 ct center. Let them know it's 5-point melee, and you want their best-quality melee.
 
First of all - kudos to you for finding out what she wants and striving to get it! We want to make her happy! :) That's great that she understands cut and quality make the ring!

Second of all, I'm usually the one advocating to make the missus happy with exactly what she chose BUT those prices are RIDICULOUS. No wonder people call them Wallets on Fire! (Waiting to get flamed on that by a HOF lover...where's the eating popcorn smiley?) Definitely research hearts & arrows diamonds to see that they are the same.

Ok....I see the setting on the HOF website. A .7 includes a total carat weight of 1.15. Looking at the 10 halo diamonds, that leaves us with 4 1/2 pointers in the halo. Most PS jewelers don't have a stock setting with that size, but can easily customize it for you. The profile of the ring is fairly plain and simple, fitting a flush wedding ring. The price you quoted tells me you're looking at 18k gold. Easy peasy!
http://www.heartsonfire.com/shop-jewelry/rings/engagement-rings/belovedopengalleryengagementring.aspx

Just as an example of ONE vendor - and there are many.

Let's say you go with Whiteflash and they make a custom ring based on this one:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/amphora-diamond-engagement-ring-1038.htm

You want a plain shank, and the under gallery to be the same as the HOF ring. Even with significant upcharge (and I have NO Idea how much they charge for custom - someone else here weigh in) - let's say $3-4k, that still leaves you with $5-6 for a diamond. A .71 A Cut Above will only run you about $3900. http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728100.htm
.81 is $4500-ish http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2763635.htm

Even James Allen can customize a setting - like this - by adding larger melee:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/-18k-White-Gold-Pave-Set-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-17155w14.html
Plus a .9 Hearts and Arrows AGS000 for $6300 : http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1527073.asp
(just an example - there are many stones on there PSers can recommend for you).

A .91 H at Good Old Gold, Superior Hearts & Arrows cut is $6100-ish:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9659/

Don't believe us? Order that .91 with GOG's great return policy and put it next to the HOF in their store. :)
 
Thank you for the comprehensive and detailed reply.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. The HOF .70 center on the website is $9K for the setting AND diamond. My local jewler can get me the setting alone for $3k. The setting which accommodates a 1ct is $5500.

My total budget is between $7 and $9k depending on how much I'd like to finance... I'll be paying the majority in cash, but if I'm convinced that the extra money buys me that little extra, I'm willing to do it.
 
I agree with Milton to just ask for excellent quality melee instead of buying a true HOF setting. Spend more on the center diamond.
 
Hmm. That Gabriel and Co setting is intriguing.

Regarding the comment "spend more on the center stone", I am a bit puzzled. Keeping the law of diminishing returns in my mind, I wonder just how much I should spend on that diamond?

My gf is a petite (5'4" 100 lbs) girl who works with gloves on quite a bit (Nurse Practicioner). A haloed 1 carat or bigger ring, I fear, may look ridiculous on her hand.

With that in mind, I am considering the two schools of thought that seem prevalent on this board: 1. "Don't waste your money on a D/IF ring when a VS/ G stone looks the same to the naked eye." or 2. "Buy the best/largest diamond you can afford".

I certainly appreciate the input, and the research that you all have done on my behalf! I'm still not sure what I'm going to do.

On one hand, due to the fact that she knows HOF, I'd like to be able to say that I got that brand, and on the other, I wonder if I could get a colorless diamond with near perfect clarity with a non-name brand setting. Hmmmmmmm.
 
Ok, in regards to the size of her stone, it really depends. It will look larger on a smaller finger (lucky girl) but is she uncomfortable with that? I know a lot of ladies here care about the finger coverage. And with a smaller finger she would have a lot if finger coverage. And I agree a size 4 ring with a 5 ct round looks a little bit ridiculous ( in the best way!) but a 1 ct isnt going to look like she cant lift her finger.

here is a link to smaller finger size, if you look for halo'd 1 ct, that would give you a good judge

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-3-5-4-5-size-finger-with-diamond-ring.108097/page-2?hilit=size%204']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-me-3-5-4-5-size-finger-with-diamond-ring.108097/page-2?hilit=size%204[/URL]

As for the diamond. IMHO I would rather as large a stone possible that is colorless and eye clean and fits in my budget. So, if the stone is an H vs2 to achieve that, Im going to buy that stone verses an D/IF. My theory is that Im not wearing the GIA cert on my finger, you know? And if I can tell a size difference but cant tell really a clarity or color difference, then Im putting my money where I can see it (size) instead of where I cant (clarity/ ct) . Of course something thats like o/i2 isnt what Im talking about but an h/vs2 1 ct verses an d/if .5 ct, Id pick the H.


And as for the setting, does she care about brands? I am not a brand girl, and I would want the best ring for the money. Like if my SO bought a Tiffany solitaire I would be sad to know he spent more than he had to to get the same look we could have gotten elsewhere. And is she very informed about setting brands? because she may just love that HOF because she has actually seen it. But if she are about brand, which some do and thats perfectly ok, then go for the HOF. But I mean would you want to pay 3k when you can have something comparable for less? Especially if you know that money could have been put toward the stone?


This is cutey TTs stone, a 1.14 ct center stone, same size = 4.5, looks appropriate on her smaller finger, not cartoonish or anything

rel_169.jpg
 
Hmm, I'm trying to keep it a secret that I'm shopping, but we've chatted casually about ring preferences/ brands/ size. She told me that she doesnt even NEED a ring to get engaged, so I know she'll be happy with whatever I do, but I also want to blow her expectations out of the water.

She has hinted at the following: Quality over size/ don't spend too much/ likes the HOF settings.. and her ring size is a 5.

"I'm not wearing the GIA cert" is funny, and poignent. It's so true. As a guy, I'm so into the "specs" of the thing rather than the day to day visual impact of it. Ok, time to do some more thinking.
 
If she says she likes that HOF setting, doesnt even need a ring, but doesnt want you to spend too much. Sounds to me like she would be happy with the style, regardless if if it was the brand or not. But you know better than I, its just how it sounds.

Youre very sweet to want to blow her out of the water with what you get her. Always makes me happy to hear people who try so hard to make the perfect ring :)
 
Thanks for your help!
 
Matty,
It is totally OK if you want to get a smaller stone. I also prefer a smaller stone. But, I wouldn't spend one cent on the HOF setting. It's nice that your GF knows the brand, but it's not really a signed piece. If she wanted a Tiffany, I would suggest to get her that. But HOF setting? I don't know. To me, it would be a waste of your healthy budget.

Gabriel has nice settings, but the melee is nothing like what you could get at WF or Brian Gavin. I suggest you get the stone size you're comfortable with (.70-.80) and have WF or BG custom make the setting for you. You will probably end up under budget and if you want, you can use that money towards the wedding band or get her some nice earrings.
 
i dont know if a custom design is the best idea. I had gone to WG for a custom design and even in 14k WG a setting with only about 2 pointers in the halo and it was 2.5 k
http://www.whiteflash.com/gallery/solitaire-engagement-rings/custom-pear-halo-solitaire-engagement-ring-28902.htm
so if he wanted them to duplicate the HOF it would be about a wash.
and im fairly certain BGD would be more expensive


heres a link of someone with a Gabriel setting, ignore the first bit about how he didnt like the ring at first because he didnt really like how big the stones were, which you WANT in your setting (plus in the end he ended up loving it )

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ring-is-ready-only-problem-im-not-crazy-about-it.180953/page-4']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ring-is-ready-only-problem-im-not-crazy-about-it.180953/page-4[/URL]

598929_10151204776119449_440508752_0.jpg
 
If you're looking at an HOF setting, and want to duplicate the melee quality (and they'll be big melee), I would NOT do Gabriel & Co. I think they're a fine budget option, but doubt the melee is up to HOF quality. WF and BGD, yes, and ERD and GoG if you tell them what you want.

Trust me on the quote for custom. I got a quote for a plain-shank halo recently for sub-$2,000. No way will doing a Lady Di style with larger melee double the price. I doubt it would even be $3k. I bought a halo pendant with 5-point signature-quality H&A melee for a 1/2 ct. center not too long ago, the entire setting with chain and melee was sub-$1,500, I'd be really surprised if plunking it onto a plain-shank ring would add more than $1,000. Seriously, I think about $2k-2,500.

Yes, custom often costs more, but this is very basic custom and all CAD/cast, no pave work or anything intricate that would drive up the price. This is not a challenging design in any way, it's an iteration of a very classic design that any competent bench can execute. Please at least get a price quote from the vendors I mentioned.

And please get the largest center stone you can afford that is white and eyeclean (H VS2 or SI1 that's been evaluated by your vendor). Trust me on this. She's conscious of your budget, doesn't want to ask for too much, has small hands, whatever. You're investing a lot into the ring, here, and it's going to be a loss if someday down the road your financial circumstances change and suddenly she's got the smallest ring of your social circle. The closer you get to 1 ct, the more likely you are to have a "forever stone," and even if her tastes change regarding the setting, she'll have something substantial to put in a new setting down the road.
 
if you can get a custom made setting for less from WG or BGD then that is a very good idea. But I would get some quotes. Because i was searching for a very similar one for my pear and I didnt fine one that cheap from those sites. But again if they are that cheap, do it up,
but I think that Gabriel setting is a good idea to because it matches her setting and will give matty the ability to maximize his budget for the stone, which i do think really should be as close to a ct as possible with an eye clean h
 
nielseel|1352396438|3301227 said:
if you can get a custom made setting for less from WG or BGD then that is a very good idea. But I would get some quotes. Because i was searching for a very similar one for my pear and I didnt fine one that cheap from those sites. But again if they are that cheap, do it up,
but I think that Gabriel setting is a good idea to because it matches her setting and will give matty the ability to maximize his budget for the stone, which i do think really should be as close to a ct as possible with an eye clean h
Click to expand...

Maybe the issue was round vs. pear center stone? I don't want to post the vendor's quotes, but I have them in the price range I'm discussing.
 
Also check with ID Jewelry. Tell them you're looking for Pricescope-quality melee, approximately 5-pointers, in a Lady Di-style halo with a plain shank, 18k white gold. They are competitively priced.
 
milton333|1352397475|3301247 said:
nielseel|1352396438|3301227 said:
if you can get a custom made setting for less from WG or BGD then that is a very good idea. But I would get some quotes. Because i was searching for a very similar one for my pear and I didnt fine one that cheap from those sites. But again if they are that cheap, do it up,
but I think that Gabriel setting is a good idea to because it matches her setting and will give matty the ability to maximize his budget for the stone, which i do think really should be as close to a ct as possible with an eye clean h
Click to expand...

Maybe the issue was round vs. pear center stone? I don't want to post the vendor's quotes, but I have them in the price range I'm discussing.
Click to expand...


Quite possible, pear probably causes more work, maybe? they probably have round settings they've already made to go back to. Dont get me wrong youre totally right milton high quality melee is the best route if the prise is competitive. but if they arent I really dont think that Gabriel is a bad setting.
 
milton333|1352395294|3301210 said:
If you're looking at an HOF setting, and want to duplicate the melee quality (and they'll be big melee), I would NOT do Gabriel & Co. I think they're a fine budget option, but doubt the melee is up to HOF quality. WF and BGD, yes, and ERD and GoG if you tell them what you want.

Trust me on the quote for custom. I got a quote for a plain-shank halo recently for sub-$2,000. No way will doing a Lady Di style with larger melee double the price. I doubt it would even be $3k. I bought a halo pendant with 5-point signature-quality H&A melee for a 1/2 ct. center not too long ago, the entire setting with chain and melee was sub-$1,500, I'd be really surprised if plunking it onto a plain-shank ring would add more than $1,000. Seriously, I think about $2k-2,500.

Yes, custom often costs more, but this is very basic custom and all CAD/cast, no pave work or anything intricate that would drive up the price. This is not a challenging design in any way, it's an iteration of a very classic design that any competent bench can execute. Please at least get a price quote from the vendors I mentioned.

And please get the largest center stone you can afford that is white and eyeclean (H VS2 or SI1 that's been evaluated by your vendor). Trust me on this. She's conscious of your budget, doesn't want to ask for too much, has small hands, whatever. You're investing a lot into the ring, here, and it's going to be a loss if someday down the road your financial circumstances change and suddenly she's got the smallest ring of your social circle. The closer you get to 1 ct, the more likely you are to have a "forever stone," and even if her tastes change regarding the setting, she'll have something substantial to put in a new setting down the road.
Click to expand...

This post hits on a number of heavy points... I'm starting to see things your way.

I do live in an area of the country where many of my friends have 1.5-3 ct solitares/ drive BMW's, live ridiculous lifestyles, etc. but I'm really trying to avoid the Jones's syndrome. I make a decent living, as does my gf but I can't wrap my head around paying $10-$20k on a peice of jewelry in my 20's.

One thing I've decided since starting this thread, is that I am going to get some additional quotes. I've seen the HOF setting in person, and IMO, it was head and shoulders above settings that I saw at Tiffany (yes, we have a local Tiffany retailer) or other "high end" shops. I started this thinking that getting the setting for around $3k was a good deal... :confused:
 
MattyB83|1352402879|3301309 said:
I started this thinking that getting the setting for around $3k was a good deal... :confused:
Click to expand...

$3k is not a bad deal for a HOF setting, the problem is that it limits you to a sub 3/4 ct stone, and you may be able to budget closer to 1 ct. There is a noticeable size difference as well as a "mind clean" issue of being closer to 1 ct than to 1/2 ct.

I can tell you that HOF melee are just hearts & arrows melee. WF and BGD use H&A melee for their settings, and the rest I mentioned can do so for you if you make sure you're requesting the best quality melee. HOF is not your only option for that quality of melee (indeed, many have compared much larger HOF diamonds to other "signature" H&A stones and seen no difference).

The deal is, you're either fixated on the best possible stone, and want some sort of setting to put it in, or you're fixated on the setting and the center stone is less important. Lots of people have strong feelings on that, but it sounds like setting is the most important issue to you. So get some price quotes to figure out what a replica of the HOF setting will cost you, and you can determine what you have left for the stone, and that will tell you how much stone you could put into a replica.

Until you know what the setting is going to cost and what your overall budget it, it's hard to point you to good stones. From about $5,200, you should be able to get ideal-cut G-H SI1 in .9+, from around $6k, you can get G-H VS2 and hearts & arrows in .9+. You're going to need $7k+ to get over 1 ct with G-H SI1.

Yes, there's a huge price jump and very minimal size jump from .9ish to 1ct, so that's another thing to think about, especially with a halo, is it worth spending that extra money to get to 1ct? Similarly, would the savings on the replica setting actually result in a larger stone? If it were me and the pricing were the same between a .9 in HOF and 1 ct in a replica, I'd choose the HOF. But it sounds like the math is way more skewed toward the replica in actuality here.

I'm just advocating making an informed decision. Don't be scared to ask for a price quote. Then you'll know where the variables are. But I'm also not going to lie, I'd never recommend that you limit yourself to .7 ct if you have the budget to do a bigger stone, so I think you need to investigate HOF alternatives because that setting's pricing precludes an affordable upgrade in the size of the center stone.

The thing about diamonds is that I've only ever seen them go up in price. A diamond with the exact same specs as one I bought not even 5 years ago is now retailing for 45% more than I paid for mine. When I bought my sub-1ct, it was a price increase of about 50% to go up to 1 ct, which seemed ridiculous at the time. Now, the leap is from a $4,300 .8 to a $7,500 1 ct with same specs (not double, but getting there). If I were to upgrade with the stone I have, I have to pay 2.5 times what I paid for the .8 to get to 1 ct. So it's almost always smartest to buy the biggest stone you can afford now, because upgrading down the road is likely to be far more expensive than going bigger now. And while .7 seems large in your 20s, it might seem small in your 40s. Every little bit helps, and it's going to be easier to do now (both in terms of rising diamond prices and other life commitments like college funds and retirement).
 
I'm also going to add some insight on why I'm suggesting that you consider the biggest center stone you can get with your budget and replicating the HOF setting - about 5 years ago, I was staring at my 1/2 ct diamond from when I got engaged at 19 and thinking how small it was. One of the leading contends for making it look bigger was a HOF setting in a kind of snowflake halo. Alternating sized melee, very similar to the setting your GF has picked out, but having a sort of snowflake-like pattern of larger and smaller melee. I was in LOVE with that setting, I stalked it online, I visited it at the jewelers. At the time, an entirely new diamond at .8 was the same cost as the HOF setting, and I just couldn't justify the math. But thought I'd put the new diamond in the HOF setting some day.

It's only 5 years later, and that HOF setting is not at all my taste anymore. I remember being crazy about it, but I can't for the life of me figure out why I'd want my e-ring to look like that.

It's entirely possible that your GF's tastes will change. If that happens, it's far better to have options to reset a good-sized center stone. I think it would be a mistake to believe that a non-solitaire setting is one that will suit her tastes and lifestyle for life. That is a very specific style, and it may not be her style for life. I would balance the costs to favor the center stone over the setting for that reason.
 
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