Marriage and other options

[Gypsy]

So I was with my ex for 20 years. Married for 11 of those years. And it wasn't a huge pain getting divorced logistically. It just cost money. He was reasonable, I was reasonable. We have no kids and we divided everything just fine. The relationship ending was the brutal part, not the divorce itself. My current partner is wonderful and I want to spend my life with him, and he with me. He's happy to do either: keep on as we are or get married or something else.

But I never thought I'd get married again. Just because: it seems like a relationship tax. You have to pay a fee to file for one. Pay get out of one. I don't need the government to sanction my relationship commitment. Except I do, because of the rights in confers.

What I want is a small ceremony for us and just our very closest friends, where we can declare our commitment in front of our loved ones. That was the BEST part of my previous wedding day. Just being able to say: "this is us, and we want to celebrate us with you." And I can have that without the paper. But I won't get the medical rights, and decision making rights, etc, because my state (regretably TX right now) doesn't recognize domestic partnership/civil unions, even if I file for one in another state (very irritating there is no sister state reciprocity for that). And the Feds don't recognize it either.

I am trying to figure out a way forward. And it seems within the scope of current laws marriage is the best option to get us the benefits of partnership there.

I am still uneasy about it. I have to figure out what marriage means to me. What does marriage mean to you?
(
I think the issue is that I felt trapped by my marriage. I stayed in it far longer than I should have because I was trying to make the marriage work. Because to me marriage means lifetime commitment and that you make it work every day. But my partner is different and I am different. My life is different. So why am I still so against marriage?

I was to be his spouse. I just don't want to get married. It's not logical. Any thoughts, advice, ideas?

 

[seaurchin]

Well, as you say, getting legally married or not each come with their own benefits and drawbacks.

You don't say how long you've been with the current guy but another option might be to not do anything right now, to just wait a while and see if you do come around to a strong preference one way or the other. Best wishes.

ETA: I think there are also ways to keep your assets and so on separate even if you do get married, which might keep things more simple.

 

[pearlsngems]

You can also make each other your health care proxy, give each other power of attorney etc.

 

[Matata]

Whichever path you choose, make sure that all legal loose ends are tied up. Marriage, imo, is for legal protection and has nothing to do with the romantic part of a relationship.

 

[sweetpea&babycorn]

Ooo I am so glad I came across this because I’ve thought of similar questions around remarrying. Im not in the position to do so right now and heckity heck divorce is SO HARD. You don’t know much of an impact it puts on your life until it happens.
Anyway, do you have thoughts on prenups, postnups, etc?
I don’t want to get married again either, it’s too much, but as you said the legal “perks” is making me think if ever did I would have the most solid and detailed prenup and postnup possible.

 

[dk168]

I believe my ex-husband raised the question about marriage after a life-changing event for him.

We had nothing in place, his house, my flat, no joint accounts as we were both financially independent, and no kids.

However, he had another property, and he looked after his family (parents as well as siblings).

I am guessing getting married would make our relationship legal should anything happened to either of us.

We drifted apart and developed into a relationship that was more like brother and sister rather husband and wife.

When I met my late partner, he provided the fireworks that was missing in my marriage, and I decided to leave my then husband.

I was with my late partner for about 4 years before he died of an accident.

When he was alive, he kept advising peeps the importance of leaving a will etc...

Low and behold, it transpired he did not leave a will, and I was pushed and cut out of everything when his family realised there was no will. The change in their behaviour towards me was so sharp and cutting it still hurts to this day.

Anyway, it is highly unlikely I would meet anyone romantically now as I truly CBA to get involved with the dating scene. Therefore, the chances of me getting married again is practically zilch, zero!

Personally, I am not bothered to get married so as to make everything legal.

If and when I manage to find someone I would like to share my life with, I would arrange to have something that would be legally binding in place, so that whatever is mine will remain as mine if we decide to split up.

I am acutely aware that I am considered as a 'good catch' being a holder of a full British passport and financially independent.

Good job I learnt my lessons to be wary of romance scams early, twice, and had lost only a small amount of money.

As soon as anyone asked me for money, I would clamp shut and walk away. This happened a few times with internet dating. With hindsight, I was probably too honest about being a HCP, financially independent and with no dependents in my profiles.

I thought about trying internet dating again, with a profile that says I am a single mother with 2 kids, and live in rented accommodation, etc. etc...

I decided against it as I am no good at lying! More importantly, I do not have the time to spare or the inclination to spend time looking for that special someone, as I am happily single with a cat and a dog.

I am alone but never lonely. If I have time to spare, I sleep!

Not sure if any of the above helps.

Good luck!

DK

 

[kenny]

... Any thoughts, advice, ideas?

Yeah.
Get the hell out of Texas!

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think you will eventually come to terms with the two sets of realities concerning marriage. I think there are legal steps to protect yourself in both scenarios. In this instance, I understand the desire to marry and on the other hand, the reluctance. This is different than a 20 something couple wanting to spend their lives together and welcoming the commitment. I would do nothing in the short term. This is a decision to be made by the two of you - not by you alone. Just because he says he will do whatever, surely he is leaning one way or another. Just take a deep breath and keep talking to one another. Should you decide to marry, get a prenup that speaks to both of your interests. At least you would find some comfort knowing your assets are protected in case you should find yourself unhappy in the marriage. Just my .02! All the best to you as you explore the options!

 

[LilAlex]

Huge potential federal income tax benefit to MFJ vs. a pair of single-filers. (I know I'm very romantic.)

Impressed that your prior divorce was amicable and relatively trouble-free -- so you should be less remarriage-averse than most yet you are still conflicted. I think that is an important voice to listen to.

I agree with @MissGotRocks -- no rush and get a prenup.

The health-care proxy stuff is not a huge deal, imo. When you show up with him and say you have been his domestic partner for x years and are "basically his wife" (have heard this a thousand times) and there are no kids in the mix (and you are not insane), they will listen to you and respect your wishes on his behalf (and vice-versa).

 

[Matata]

When you show up with him and say you have been his domestic partner for x years and are "basically his wife" (have heard this a thousand times) and there are no kids in the mix (and you are not insane), they will listen to you and respect your wishes on his behalf (and vice-versa).

One thing you left out -- even if there are no kids, there may be family who might stir up trouble. I've had two friends who though they were protected by domestic partnership agreements, wills, etc. and when their partners became ill and then died, family came out of the woodwork and it got ugly and both lost their homes and all assets that were accrued during the relationships. Depends on the state in which one lives I suppose but in my state, unless one is married, it's difficult for a surviving domestic partner to assert rights that are clearly covered in legal docs.

 

[Avondale]

I don't know how helpful this is going to be to you but...

I view marriage and the relationship as two completely different and separate entities.

The marriage is nothing more than a legal deal between two parties with the corresponding legal consequences.

If you desire the legal consequences, if they'll be useful and beneficial to you, then get married. Otherwise, don't. Simple as that.

A marriage certificate or a ring on the finger won't keep someone from leaving. Nor will the relationship die without marriage. It lives its own independent life.

If I were in your place, I'd research the legalities of marriage. What will it mean for you in particular? Is there anything you're missing right now that marriage will be able to give you, legally? Are there any drawbacks to be considered?

If you decide marriage is not suitable for you at this point in life, just remember that you can have a wedding and a ceremony without the legalities being part of it. If you just want the event, the commitment, the sentimentality and the memories, but the marriage itself is a no, there's no one stopping you from having all that without the marriage part.

 

[LilAlex]

One thing you left out -- even if there are no kids, there may be family who might stir up trouble. I've had two friends who though they were protected by domestic partnership agreements, wills, etc. and when their partners became ill and then died, family came out of the woodwork and it got ugly

Yes. I was speaking only to the health-care proxy angle (or whatever your state calls it) when/if there are no kids. You will be listened to. Post-death stuff can be addressed in the Will if it is important to both parties.

 

[Lookinagain]

Well, the need for a health care proxy may vary by state, but it is always wiser to have one, than not. You should also have a durable power of attorney and a will. You should have these things, whether married or not. If you decide to get married and want to keep things separate in case of divorce, get a pre-nup. You can still take care of each other in your wills if the marriage lasts. Having the pre-nup shouldn't affect the will. If you want to avoid probate, put your assets into a Trust and name beneficiaries on your bank and brokerage accounts, IRAs, 401ks etc. Probate can be expensive so the Trust(s) make sense whether you get married or not. You can do separate trusts for each persons assets, or if married, a Marital Trust if your state has those. Most of these things should be part of any good estate plan, no matter marital status. The only thing pertinent to marriage is the pre-nup (and Marital Trust).

 

[nala]

I was 20 when I married my ex by the Catholic Church. I was 29 when we divorced and I knew I would never want to marry again bc the church only allows one marriage. When I met my current husband, I made it clear that no more kids or marriage. He was 31 and I was 30. At this point, all of our friends were getting married. They all are divorced now with exception of one couple. But we attended 5 weddings the year that we decided to do a reception and commitment ceremony. I wanted to celebrate our union and have memories but I did not want the legal implications. Those couples mocked the idea, lol. In truth, many did. But 16 years later, we are still together. We have memories of that day and a lovely wedding album.

Most importantly, we both know that we can leave at any given moment without any legal or financial conflicts. But to this day, we have chosen not to. We are fully committed to each other. I went through a health scare over a year ago, and never doubted that he would be my rock. He can expect the same from me.
We have always kept our finances separate and saved thousands on a prenup, lol. This system has worked for us. We don’t ever fight over money. We advise each other and guide each other but that’s it.

One of my divorced friends who mocked my commitment ceremony just told me that she plans to do what I did, lol. Another friend has told me repeatedly that he wishes he would have followed my advice when it came to finances bc his divorce process has lasted over 2 years and he will lose so much of his money. He says he was deluded to think that he wanted to financially take care of his then wife.

All this to say: There is no right way to build a life together. You will know what to do bc it will feel right, despite what outsiders might say.

 

[ShinyPink]

I really have no stance on marriage, as it's an individual thing. What I do know quite well is what happens with end-of-life issues. I tell friends to let the hospital, police, etc. think you are the spouse. The inheritance and all that can be dealt with later. Why? Because in California decisions and property follow a simple next-of-kin chain: spouse (or registered domestic partner)-children-grandchildren-siblings, etc. You would not be entitled to any decisions regarding healthcare or arrangements - or property. This is where a will is imperative.

I've seen exes be the decision-maker for the child if they're a minor and the NOK, regardless of how nasty the ex was to the deceased; unregistered domestic partners unable to make any final arrangements; siblings who haven't seen the deceased in years inherit estates, leaving the partner out of everything.

A DNR can be overridden by the healthcare proxy, fyi. It happens a lot and is gross. Shoot, my BIL did it to his dad!

You can make anyone the beneficiary of insurance policies. Joint account holders have rights of survivorship.

So get your ducks in a row no matter what. I know you're in Texas, and I'm talking about California where we are a bit more liberal with partnerships.

 

[Gypsy]

Lots of food for thought. And I read your comments and they really helped. So thank you all VERY MUCH!

We did speak about this some more and agreed as follows:

1. We will have a prenup (if, when)
2. We will get wills now and discuss trusts with the estate lawyer and durable power of attorney
3. We will get healthcare proxies now, change our beneficiaries to each other, etc.
4. In an ideally, he prefers the legal protections marriage affords. Especially as the country is increasingly volatile. He's all in either way, though. It's literally my decision. He supports whatever choice I make. And he really is sincere in that.

We've been together for 2.5 years and living together 1 year. We shared the definitions of marriage, what our differing expectations are of our "spouse" versus partner (none on both sides), and that lead to a larger talk. Someone we know was in a LTR for years, then when she and her partner married he changed. Started criticizing how she acted and dressed. And when he was asked he was like "that behavior was fine in a girlfriend, but not for my wife (). Fortunately there were no surprises on either of our parts during the conversation. But as he has not been married before, so we discussed what the differences are in my opinion.

And my answer was: internal to the relationship, nothing changed really. But the way society treats your relationship: the emphasis and deference they put on it. The way they treat "wife" versus "girlfriend" -- that shit can seep in to your psyche. And for me, that resulted in us both putting up with stuff that, without the "marriage" hanging over us, I think both of us would have admitted were a larger problems. Because of the connotations that echo around "marriage" and I kept thinking "things are bad but they aren't DIVORCE bad. All marriages are like this, that's why there are so many jokes and stereotype." But, they were, in fact, bad enough. And putting the relationship on that pedestal was unhealthy. In reality, the relationship wasn't holding us together, the word marriage was trapping us.

So, I am afraid of that happening again. That our relationship will wither and die and the only thing that holds us together is an increasingly meaningless title and designation. And recognizing that, I think I can say that I won't let that happen again. So that helps a bit. It will still take time to work through it.

And you are right nala, there is no 'right way' to have a relationship. And we have to figure out what is right for us. So we are going to do that together. I am still getting my ring though.