Marketing is dead...

[pricescope]

or is it?

I''m moving here the post that were hijacking "Open challenge to GIA and AGS about cut grading" thread.

 

[pricescope]

It is interesting how the thing is unwinding. Storm emailed me about this post when I was just finishing the draft of my slide show. One of the subject I''m going to talk about is direct and open discussions between markets (customers and companies).

Customers are not consumers anymore. We want to be treated with respect as human beings, not a targets for advertisement. We want to ask question and recieve honest answers from companies and the whole industries.

Internet creates a possibility for direct interaction between companies and customers. Companies that realise that will create a new level of trust and confidence. Both customers and companies will win.

Companies should stop talking to their markets via PR''s and ads campaigns.

Storm post is a great illustration of this trend. Companies who don''t get it are missing the opportunity of a life time. In the Internet era markets are in charge of creating and destroying of the brands.

I emailed both GIA and AGS inviting them to participate in discussion. I think it is a great opportunity for them to show their human side. And I think it is worth a stickie

 

[pricescope]

This is what internet does.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

All goes around in round abouts I am sure Leonid.

 

[pricescope]

You're missing the train, David.... If you need higher authority Go read Economist Mar 31st 2005. The entire issue is dedicated to new realm in advertising and Internet.

I discourage potential and existing advertisers to have banners on Pricescope if I see there is nothing there for community and a vendor. I'm afraid you have some sort of prejudice based on the old type of thinking and missing bigger picture.

Pricescope or any other banners are nothing without participation in the community and offering a value. Corporations still wasting money on big campaigns but less and less people are listening.

Ford is spending 20% of the advertising budget on Internet presence now.

"The days of mass marketing are over.” - Larry Light, chief marketing officer McDonald

>>The Internet has become another means of delivering their message.

In the internet we ignore ads. The only advertisement that people really use is Yellow Pages.

Why do you think AOL - Time Warner "merger of the century" was a fiasco?

 

[pricescope]

>>Where and how do you think Google generates 98% of it's revenue?

I know. That's the trick, David.

Did you ever tried to run an AdWords campaign? How many sales did it bring you? Was it worth the money you spent?

You can spend a lot on Google AdWords and won't get any decent conversion rate. Yet companies are using it because they want there sites to be found. It doesn't mean that it is an effective way of advertising.

If it is good for Google doesn't mean it is good for advertisers.

Those who will come up with more meaningful way of marketing will be next "Google".

Btw, did you ever seen Google advertisement? Or Napster (when it was free and cool) or Winamp?

 

[pricescope]

Date: 5/26/2005 11:59:16 AM
Author: crankydave

Date: 5/26/2005 11:33:16 AM
Author: Pricescope

Btw, did you ever seen Google advertisement?

It's called AdSense, and they pay for it too.

Dave

No, I meant, did you see Google's advertisement? Did you see Google to place paid ads anywhere?

Adwords and AdSense are two different programs. 1st for advertisers, 2nd for publishers.

I'm afraid we hijacked the topic. So I'm not discussing these (very interesting for me) issues here anymore. Just a couple of quick notes.

1. Traditional advertising won't disappear of course. What changing is the markets' position and perception of these messages: "CNN - the most trusted name in news".
2. Visionaries and big companies are talking about "social computing". An example of such thing: www.insiderpages.com

 

[Mara]

Marketing and advertising will never be dead.

It will still be there even if the means of deliver are more SUBTLE...

Positive word of mouth is marketing and advertising. Branded items are marketing and advertising. More subtle than an in-your-face mag ad or billboard, but people will always talk about and tout products...what we do here when we recommend a vendor or talk about a good experience is marketing and advertising in the consumer sense...sharing of information.

 

[pricescope]

The point is that we do not trust companies (or at least their marketing messages). We'd rather would rely on our friends' opinion/recommendation than an "expert" or marketing pitch.

How many time when studying the Internet we find out that a sales person doesn't know much about the product they are selling? I'm not talking about diamonds here. Anything from cars to electronics, from cosmetics to real estate.

On MSN Auto or CNet reviews there are two sections: expert and users' reviews. I found user reviews the most useful. Companies' websites are the lest useful.

For myself, I'm trying to follow these rules of Hugh MacLeod:

5. Ruthlessly avoid working for companies that “don't get it.” Yeah, you may have to turn down a few gigs, and that can really hurt when the rent is
due. Still, anything that's easy to get isn't worth having.

6. Ruthlessly avoid working for companies that think they know better than you. Luckily, if you get the whole “smarter conversations” thing, their “Yes, buts” will just seem rather empty, making them easier to “toss out like old furniture.”

For those who are in marketing, might be interesting to check out http://changethis.com/11.TheHughtrain

 

[bopitaddict]

Date: 5/26/2005 12:53:46 PM
Author: Pricescope
The point is that we do not trust companies (or at least their marketing messages). We''d rather would rely on our friends'' opinion/recommendation than an ''expert'' or marketing pitch.

How many time when studying the Internet we find out that a sales person doesn''t know much about the product they are selling? I''m not talking about diamonds here. Anything from cars to electronics, from cosmetics to real estate.

On MSN Auto or CNet reviews there are two sections: expert and users'' reviews. I found user reviews the most useful. Companies'' websites are the less useful.

i just think that it''s hard to differentiate between ''experts'' with agendas versus experts who truly are giving unbiased opinions... users seem to be on the same boat as me, so that''s why i value their opinions a bit more...

even though there are some users that are ''experts'' planted to act as users. but that''s a whole other issue.

 

[Kaleigh]

What is a stickie??

 

[pricescope]

by "experts" I meant people who say thing like "I was in this business for 20 years - I know better than you".

Re: planted experts/consumers. I''m sure this category does exist. It takes some skills to hear a false note in the song. Companies that hire people to do this kind of thing can use money more efficiently.

Business is just a word for buying and selling things. In one way or another, we all rely on this commerce, both to get the things we want or need, and to afford them. There is nothing inherently wrong with this setup. Except when it becomes all of life.

"Marketing is dead" apply to traditional, one way, bombing of the consumers with marketing messages. How many of you went to Burger King or bought Nescafe because of the Apprentice? Yet they probably spent millions just to appear in the show. Their marketing companies will tell all their clients how they succeed with product placement.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 5/26/2005 1:11:35 PM
Author: kaleigh
What is a stickie??

sticky, pinned - fixed at the top of the forum

 

[Michael_E]

Traditional advertising, i.e. marketing, as it has evolved over the last couple of centuries HAS been a one way operation because their was no other viable way to reach large numbers of people with a message as a compny grew. It has also been losing it''s cost effectiveness for a long time for any but those who are able to come up with the huge resources needed to make it work. I can guarantee you that even the Yellow Pages is a total waste of money and time for most small to mid sized business. I think that this "one way" marketing is here to stay however, since it is the only way that a large corporate entity can affect their market share in an economic fashion, (although they will undoubtedly have large Internet presences''s).
I think that this Internet has changed the marketing world dramatically for small and medium sized business however. This ''net is the next step up in "word of mouth" advertising, even if you''re not advertising. It has allowed people with very different backgrounds and a common interest to share information and sources for things that they might never have had access to previously. This includes information as well as goods and services. These forums are actually the epitome of the use of the ''net to create a new marketing venue, in that they have taken advantage of a way to not only bring goods to market, but to support human interaction and communication regarding those goods. (It''s kind of like a huge outdoor market, with everyone chattering and stuff flying all over the place). This will, and has, caused all sorts of consternation among the people who are used to a different way of getting their goods to market, (at different price levels), but it will not cause them to disappear. I doubt if any major manufacturer of say, cars or razor blades or beer, will quit advertising on the Super Bowl, for instance. But for many businesses the use of the ''net to form at least a quasi-personal relationship with their clients is, or will be, a huge change that will define everything about their business from that point forward. I guess that my view is that the ''net changes marketing dramatically, but it certainly doesn''t destroy it. People will always want stuff, they will always want to feel smart, important and happy. They will always want to put those desires together and the net is now the key to doing that for many people.

 

[Michael_E]

This is just an afterthought, but I doubt if the GIA or AGS will actually assign someone who''s "in the know" to come to this forum and discuss their directions and intentions. This is mostly because they do not see the end consumer as their client. They see the intermediary people and businesses, i.e. wholesalers and retailers who use and buy their sevices, as their clients. They do not want to have the sort of intimate dialog that is being discussed here with anyone that they see as being "outside" of their circle, since they are limited in time resources and therefore have to limit their interactions to those people that affect them directly,(financially). I don''t know this for a fact, but it seems reasonable. Who knows, maybe one of them will pop in here one day and surprise the heck out of me.

 

[pricescope]

>>How many times studying the internet do you find misinformation? How about flat out wrong information?

You have to know the places you can trust, communities, review sites when people can share their experience. Then you read what is important/makes sense for you. You can sense the genuine voice using your own common sense.

>>Taking information from only one source as gospel is being uninformed.

Exactly. that''s why Internet is giving the possibility to get the information from different sourses. It wasn''t possible befere when all the information was from one source: the company.

>>Many folks are just the opposite and prefer the experts'' opinion over the others.

Expert opinion can be useful but often I need to know what happens with this car or DVD player after a year or two. No expert can tell you that unles they have the car and drive it.

My wife gets better information about cosmetics from members of http://www.makeupalley.com/ that she''ll never get from cosmetic companies, nevermind sales people in the stores..

>>Would you market your product on only ''The Best Search Engine'' blocking the spiders from all the other SE''s?

Do you ever seen me marketing PS as "the best somethimg"?

Quoting Hugh again: “Advertising is Dead.” Yep, bastards like me are no longer going to try to sell you anything. You heard it here first.

 

[pricescope]

Good points, Michael. Interesting enough that big companies like Yahoo, Google, Microsoft and even Ford and General Motors consider it important to speak to communities.

Change before you have to. - Jack Welch

 

[pricescope]

>>Would you market your product on only "The Best Search Engine" blocking the spiders from all the other SE''s?

Sorry I''m too slow. how is this relevant?

 

[pricescope]

Keyword targeted advertisement is not the same as mass market advertisement. It is rather similar to Yellow Pages concept where customer is actually looking for specific information, product, or service.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/26/2005 1:20:37 PM
Author: Pricescope

'Marketing is dead' apply to traditional, one way, bombing of the consumers with marketing messages.

The two slides can rightfully say "everything has changed" because the comunication avenue has a glaringly obvious new component.

It does not feel self evident that the change in medium also changes the message: that the expansion of the virtual marketplace kills mass marketing. The subject of this "conversation" has not changed, neither have the parties' interests and bargaining power. What did ? Perhaps the virtual market is just not large enough to allow mass marketing yet.

In the new order of things... who is telling buyers to start looking ?

 

[lostdog]

I don't think you can take the internet and set it outside of the entire media/advertising universe.

Internet has to be understood as another medium, one with different characteristics than traditional "heritage" media. People use it in a different way, information flows and is recorded in a different way.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/26/2005 8:06:49 PM
Author: crankydave

Perhaps the virtual market is just not large enough to allow mass marketing yet.

In the new order of things... who is telling buyers to start looking ?

Most interesting thoughts Ana. Will peer pressure become the new elixer?

Peer pressure, oh well... I am not sure what that might mean here. Several versions come to mind.


1. I am pretty sure that creating peer pressure groups could be justified as a promotion exercise. If it does work, the pattern of communication involved may limit scale. That "peer" quality is achieved by a fellow human being through frequent interaction - and that limits the numbers of agents to only few fellow humans for most people. It may be that the net is all about proximity, but not that much proximity after all.

So... oh well, I need further persuation to belive that peer preassure may one day turn the net into some costless mass marketing environment.


2. Peer peassure is object of promotion itself. It might not come from the same "peers" for all people but everyone feals it from someone, so adds tout someone else's expectations not the buyer's (the fiancees' expectations about an engagement ring, say).


Surely there are other ways to think about it. I have zero marketing background, but happen to have an interest in second order beliefs (game theory applications). And that's where the strange ideas come from. It's nice to chat though

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/27/2005 3:12:08 PM
Author: crankydave

As far a mass marketing on the Internet, Ebay does it now.

The method looks familiar, but I kind of wander about the "mass" - online sales have definitely not taken over the world just yet.

Oh well....

I certainly agree that virtual peer groups are a different. For once, they are opt-in groups and easily escapable - not exactly "high pressure" in a confined environemnt (think of someone choosing to listen to Pricescope's endorsements, as opposed to choosing to go againt the grain of his social group).


Really, this stuff is way over my head - not much of these things are modeled theoretically, and I have nothing to do with marketing practice.


Where's Mara, Leonid and Garry ?

 

[pricescope]

Drinking, Val

It''s Fri-night here

 

[valeria101]

Date: 5/27/2005 6:18:43 PM
Author: Pricescope
Drinking, Val

It''s Fri-night here

... don''t remind me

(paper due tomorrow, saturday afternoon)