Mara, Diamonbob, and other experts...please help!!!

[AudiOn19s]

I''ve been trying to educate myself on diamonds and every time I think that I''ve got a good grasp on things I read something else that completely skews my views on what I already know. I''ve read the tutorial here and on goodoldgold''s site and think that I''m startint to grasp things but seeing as though I''m very close to a purchase help from anyone here would be greatly appreciated.

Here is what I''m looking for. We''ll start with price. my budget for the stone is $5000 (could probably go a couple hundred higher if It was in my best interest). With that said I''m looking for a round stone, I''m OK with SI1 as long as it''s eye clean as to reach all other criteria I think that VS2 is out of my price range, I''d like to think that I can find a nice stone around 1.1 to 1.2 carat(stretching???). Finally I''d like G but would go to a H colored stone as I''m concerned that even with a great cut that I could have color problems when set in platinum.

If I''m headed towards unobtainable goals...don''t hesitate to set me straight...I think that I''m not too far off from the research here on this board but would really appreciate some help in pointing me towards some really nice stone.

I can''t thank everyone here enough in advance for the help that has been provided and education that I''ve recieved from this board as I move towards a proposal in January!

Andy

 

[oldminer]

There are many diamonds within your budget right on Pricescope's search. There were quite a few even H&A and AGS 0 cuts. All of these were with GIA or AGS documents. You can't go very far wrong with nearly any of these diamonds.

It might be be advisable to go with H VS2 to get the safety of the diamond being EYE CLEAN. Nearly all SI1's are also eye clean, but why take an increased risk. When it it being worn, you will not see the difference in the G or H color of a well cut diamond...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Do you have an Audi with 19's???? Sounds exotic. A8, S6?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Giangi]

I agree. Get an H/VS 2 or SI 1 with the **very best** cut you can afford. Are you looking for a H&A?

 

[Arlington]

I'm not an expert, but I did just recently purchase a diamond and had very, very similar criteria to yours. It's definitely possible for you to meet your goals.

Be prepared to do a little legwork, however! Many of the stones listed on Pricescope do not have crown and pavilion angles readily available, so you'll have to request Sarin reports for those in order to adequately guage their cut.

In the end, I sacrificed a bit of color for a super-ideal cut and purchased a 1.115 ct I SI1 A CUT ABOVE from Whiteflash. I have absolutely no regrets. If you have the stomach for a long message (and the time), you can read about my experience here.

Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

Hi, Andy:




First, a gentle suggestion: it would be much easier to help you if you kept everything in one post. It's a pain to go back and forth researching what has already been offered in other posts.




Second, did you review the stones I suggested in your other post? I listed about 4-5 stones that are WELL within your budget and are ideal cut stones. All appear to be decent candidates for your consideration.






1.20, I, SI-1, GIA, ideal cut for $4766


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-485807.htm




1.14, H, SI-1, GIA, ideal cut for $4732


http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-419733.htm




1.13 ct, H, SI-1, GIA, signature series for $4562


http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail_sb.cfm?did=6861086




1.283 ct, I, SI-1, AGS, signature series for $5630


http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail_sb.cfm?did=6838730

 

[AudiOn19s]

David...thanks for the advise...when I search is there anything in particular to look for that states that a stone is H&A or AGS 0 cut, I realize that if I check the boxes in my search that these should be the returned stones, but many of them don't really come right out and say this. My main concern with G over H was the platinum setting but in reading many posts here on the board if the Cut is very good then this shouldn't be a worry...is this true?

===========================

As for the Car...Audi S4 that I spend way too much money on (19' wheels, coilover suspension, upgraded turbos and intercoolers from an RS4 and the list goes on)...but it's an absolute blast to drive.

============================

Thanks again for the input.
Andy

 

[AudiOn19s]

aljdewey: Those stones are still on my list...I felt like I wasn't 100% ready to buy even though that post was only a few days ago...now that I'm really ready to purchase I just wanted to start fresh. I appreciate your input though...sorry for the "double post".

 

[aljdewey]

Andy, what's more important to you: H&A, or carat weight?




If you want a super-duper-louper H&A, you'll have to drop down to about a 1 ct or just below.




If you want the bigger carat weight, you'll instead look at stones that are just outside the super-duper-louper range.....and those are what I offered previously.




So which will be most important: H&A, or carat weight?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 1:36:52 PM AudiOn19s wrote:





My main concern with G over H was the platinum setting but in reading many posts here on the board if the Cut is very good then this shouldn't be a worry...is this true?
--------------

Yes, that's totally true....it won't be a worry. But don't take my word for it....decide for yourself with these (and these are all well-cut I stones.....which is a grade BELOW H)

.85 ct, I color, SI-1 clarity, Hearts & Arrows Diamond

2.57 ct, I color, SI-2 clarity

1..23 ct, I color, SI-1 clarity

 

[AudiOn19s]

H&A or Carat weight.....this is where my education on stones falls short..is there a "range of H&A stones" or is it just H&A or not H&A...this is where I get a little fuzzy. Carat weight is important to me...but anything should look somewhat large on her 4.75 ring size finger so size could be compromised just a bit. I'm still pretty torn...ego says go big...brains say go for quality.

 

[dimonbob]

Hello Andy,

Your request is not unreasonable, just not easy. But we all like a challenge.

 

[mike04456]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 1:36:52 PM AudiOn19s wrote:





As for the Car...Audi S4 that I spend way too much money on (19' wheels, coilover suspension, upgraded turbos and intercoolers from an RS4 and the list goes on)...but it's an absolute blast to drive.

----------------

If that's the case, I suspect your girlfriend is going to expect one hell of a diamond.

Women just don't understand about guys and cars.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 2:19:46 PM AudiOn19s wrote:
H&A or Carat weight.....this is where my education on stones falls short..is there a 'range of H&A stones' or is it just H&A or not H&A...this is where I get a little fuzzy.

ego says go big...brains say go for quality.
----------------

H&A is tricky.....not all stones billed at H&A are really H&A. True H&A stones exhibit crisp patterns and exceptional symmetry. You'll see others listed as H&A, but upon inspection, you'll see that the hearts vary juuuuust slightly in size, or the spaces between the hearts and the Vs vary slightly.

I'd say this to you: as long as your stone scores well on the HCA and has a great ideal-scope image.....you'll be fine, even if it's called the chicken soup cut! The suggestions made to you so far are spot-on.....you can have BOTH great quality and a decent size stone. Keep in mind that well-cut stones appears visually larger than a less-well cut, heavier stone. A 1.05 H&A might *look* bigger than a 1.15 average cut stone.

Andy, I think the only way to resolve your conflict is to get your behind out there and look at some diamonds! There's only so much you can "educate" yourself on paper....now you have to go out and do the legwork. Go to a few stores that carry ideal stones. Ask to see them side by side.

I can only tell you what I'd do. If it were me, I'd look for the largest stone I could get meeting these criteria: H/I, eye-clean SI-1, scores 2 or less on the HCA. This will give you a quality that FAR surpasses more than 95% of diamonds being worn by the general population.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi Audi!

Keep CUT as your top priorty! Remember that diamonds are color graded cutlet up/table down in the body of the stone. Well CUT diamonds "appear" whiter than their actual rating. As the pics above show, that I color looks great. Look for the best polish, proportions, and symmetry for the best CUTS. Ideal and/or Excellent if you aren't shopping for a true H&A.

ALJD is also right about shopping H&A's. Watch out for dimaonds that have "exhibits Hearts and Arrows patterns" on the Cert. Most well cut diamonds will exhibit the patterns to some extent but they will not be clean and crisp. Plus you won't have that "perfect" internal optical symmetry to refract the most light possible and reduce light leakage. Throwing H&A on diamonds has grown to be a marketing tool.

Size, type, color, and location of the inclusions are the keys to selecting a 100% eye clean SI diamond. Get copies of Cert plots and discuss the inclusions with the vendor. My SI1 diamond has a feather that lies parallel to the facets cut. It is totally invisible to the eye and does not impact performance. Your choice of mounting can also affect whether you can conceal an inclusion. And, like sooooo many folk here are so fond of reminding us all,.... People don't carry around loupes to look at other people's rings/jewelry.

I have personally previewed a .76 ct, H and a .85 ct, J color ACA from White Flash side by side. The J color looked great mock set against white gold and platinum. I wouldn't hesitate considering I and J color true H&A diamonds. I and J colors can get you the size you want in your budget and she'll have a spectacular ring!

 

[Mara]

You've got lots of great advice so far! Definitely check out the stones that AL posted...I would have posted all of those as well.




If you are going for carat size and H&A...drop to H or I color definitely. You will still get a really white stone IMO. The pictures that were posted are all exceptionally lovely! I'm a size girl so I like the larger sizes with the good cuts...and would not hesitate to do an SI1 and H or I if I had to push to get a size I wanted. Knowing what I know now about 'diamond shrinkage'..I still love my G VS but we could have gotten a much bigger I SI if only....so research is always good!




As you surf around, post stones you have found and people will give you opinions ...probably more than you want!

Good luck!

 

[fire&ice]

If you search the "show me the ring" forum, you will see several I stones set in platinum. Another trick is to try to get a stone w/ med/blue fluor - helps the stone face up whiter.

As other have stated, a well cut stone will hide body color & flaws. Personally, how "well cut" is a personal decision.

Good luck.

 

[isthree00]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 3:10:26 PM LawGem wrote:

----------------
On 10/9/2003 1:36:52 PM AudiOn19s wrote:



As for the Car...Audi S4 that I spend way too much money on (19' wheels, coilover suspension, upgraded turbos and intercoolers from an RS4 and the list goes on)...but it's an absolute blast to drive.

----------------

If that's the case, I suspect your girlfriend is going to expect one hell of a diamond.

Women just don't understand about guys and cars.

----------------

I was going to say the same

your mods alone could probably buy her a 2ct+ E/VS1 H&A diamond but don't let her know that

"honey, what's boost? what's an intercooler? what's a turbo timer? what's a headgasket?" etc etc etc. If she doesn't already have an idea, don't let her know you dump money like that into a car but skimp on her e-ring

just my $0.02

ps - i just bought an I/SI2 from Whiteflash and I am extremely pleased. It is 100% eye clean and faces up white as can be.

 

[derekinla]

Audi,

I was REALLY seriously thinking about getting an Audi A4 1.8T a year ago but decided on a 2003 Accord Coupe EX-V6 in Graphite Grey which was several thousand cheaper and a blast to drive! The engine is a silky smooth DOHC VTEC V6 with 240hp (5 speed auto) and the car is loaded with features like steering wheel controls, dual zone climate control, heated leather seats, 6 airbags etc.... I like to think of my Accord as the "H SI1" of the near luxury sport coupe segment in terms of bang for the buck. Good luck with the diamond though......... Time to get some 19 inch rims!!! Any suggestions for rims?

Oh the diamond i got my fiance was a 1.4 Carat eye clean G color SI1 AGS000 unbranded hearts and arrows HCA 0.3!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 5:01:51 PM fire&ice wrote:





If you search the 'show me the ring' forum, you will see several I stones set in platinum. ----------------

Yup.....and that's exactly where I got those pics above......from the forum with pics of the rings people here have bought. All those above are I color and all are set in platinum.

 

[bling]

hahaha...i know what intercoolers, turbo timers..etc are..if my fiance had all those plus all the other toys mentioned above...i think i would have to start comparing....

LOL! some girls doooo know what they are and how much they cost..dangerous!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 5:56:22 PM aljdewey wrote:

----------------
On 10/9/2003 5:01:51 PM fire&ice wrote:



If you search the 'show me the ring' forum, you will see several I stones set in platinum. ----------------

Yup.....and that's exactly where I got those pics above......from the forum with pics of the rings people here have bought. All those above are I color and all are set in platinum.
----------------

Well, I know my pics are crappy - more focused on my knuckle than the diamond - but mine is a large I in platinum w/ f/g sides. The color is quite white. Al, I have no idea how to paste pics.

 

[AudiOn19s]

To the car guys...Please don't make me feel much worse about the money I'm spending on this ring compared to how much I spend on my car....or my motorcycle (GSXR-1000) I did however sell my race bike (GSXR-600) in order to purchase this ring. Cash is a little tight as I recently became a first time home owner and I don't want to use credit for the ring...so are my priorities skued...maybe...but I'm still young and dumb...and this ring and the home are my first real steps towards growing up and moving on. Maybe I can upgrade the ring like I do my vehicles...little steps at a time...hopefully I don't get quite as carried away as I always do with my automotive passions.

Thanks once again to everyone for the comments...they're greatly apprecited I'll narrow this down to a couple of stones and throw them out there for some final evaluations!

Andy

 

[Rhino]

Here's the dilemma and some very straight advice.




A 1.01ct H VS2 is listing for $5900 per carat and an H SI1 for $5300 per carat. Depending upon your connections, services rendered, expenses, amount purchased etc. actual cost to a dealer on the VS2 is going to be around what your budget is on the diamond itself. So unless a dealer wants to make absolutely no profit at all and is in this business strictly for his health then maybe you'll get an (and I'm talking aldje's super duper louper *maybe*) H VS2 for that price. If you are locked into that 5k budget I'd get G or H VS2 out of my mind. The SI1 is closer to your budget and depending upon the services rendered and policies offered can vary from under or around 5k to a little over. An I color puts you in the zone perfectly and IMO, if size is your major concern THAT is where you need to be. Unless you want to compromise in cut (which none of us would generally suggest) this would be my advice.




Rhino

 

[canadiangrrl]

Jonathan's advice is excellent. If I were in your shoes, with your budget & paramaters, I'd go H SI1, or SI2, if it was eyeclean. And if you want to go for size without sacrificing cut, then an I is a definite consideration.

 

[Mara]

Definitely H or I and SI!

F&I...post pix of your stone!! If you email them to me, I will post them. I think you have my email addy?

 

[Rhino]

Just a note on the excellent pics aldj posted. If you're wondering why these 2 pics make the "I" colored diamond appear so differently, one is taken in direct lighting conditions (ie. like that of a flash) and the other under softer diffuse/suffuse light and point out an interesting phenomena observed in diamonds under these lighting conditions which is something we'll be covering on an upcoming tutorial currently in progress (though I've taken pics myself of this phenomena to demonstrate I'll use the ones posted).




The pic taken in direct lighting will make a diamond appear dark yet the flashes within the diamond will be the most intense. This is the SAME way a super ideal cut will appear in direct light conditions. Direct light conditions (ie. sunlight, halogens, etc.) will make a diamond with high internal reflections appear dark but the fire, when compared to other diamonds with more light leakage, more intense (ie. look at the intense relfections of light coming out of the stone. Diamonds with high amounts of leakage will appear "lighter" under direct light conditions often fooling the observer to believe that it may indeed be a more brilliant stone when in fact they are observing the phenomena of leakage of light coming from behind the stone! Typicallly from the jewelry store showcase with light in it shining behind the loose diamond. Direct light conditions emphasize *fire* and *scintillation* and is dependant upon the diamonds ability to reflect back light at the high angles (ie. in your face). Excellent LightScope results and BrillianceScope results will affect the performance in those conditions.

This next pic is taken in the softer light. Softer light emphasizes white light return rather than colored light return. It also emphasizes contrast brilliance and scintillation which is dependant upon the depth of contrast and the amount of contrast that exists within reflective surfaces on the pavilion. You will not observe the intense reflections of light that you will in direct light conditions but in diamonds with high optical symmetry you will observe a beauty that puts it in a class all by itself. This lighting condition also flatters color and makes the stone appear whiter rather than darker. So if you take careful observartion one pic makes the diamond appear lighter/whiter with no intense refelctions within while the other darker with more intense reflections. Excellent Isee2 results reflect how the stone will appear in these light conditions and unlike the BrillianceScope rewards "make" or "craftsmanship" with the appropriate score.

Peace,


Rhino

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 10/9/2003 8:00:40 PM fire&ice wrote:

Al, I have no idea how to paste pics

----------------

You right-click on the pic you want to copy and select "copy"....then you get into your response window here and on your browser menu bar select "edit", and then "paste". Voila!

 

[fire&ice]

That works for pictures too?

 

[aljdewey]

Yup! Isn't it a beautiful thing?!?!?!?!?

 

[AudiOn19s]

AL...took your advise and went to look at some stones last night. The retail establishment called them Super Ideal Cut stones all with GIA reports and this really opened my eyes. You're correct that the better the cut the less I had to worry about color and that they looked suprisingly big. I knew that the prices would be hight so I simply ignored that. I found several H color stones in the 1.1-1.2 range but were all SI2 stones. One looked horrible under the scope and one I had to actually look at the printout from the report to see the imperfections. I was unable to walk away with crown and pavilion angles so I'm unsure how these stones really steack up on the HCA scale but I got the basic Idea.

So now I'm back to my origional dilemma...This is one of Al's origional suggestions which is actually at the top of my list currently. I'm inquiring more on this stone presently.

Stone 1.
Shape: Round
Laboratory: AGS
Cert No.: AGS0004306510
Cert Date: 08/08/03
Carat Weight: 1.283
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Measurements: 6.99x7.03x4.32
Depth: 61.6%
Table: 55%
Polish: ID
Symmetry: ID
Culet: Pointed
Girdle: 1.0-1.7
Fluorescence: None
Culet: Pointed
Crown Angle : 35.1°
Crown %: 15.8
Pavillion Angle : 40.9°
Pavillion %: 43.1

*this stone scored a 2.1 on the HCA.