Man made diamonds

Toska · Dec 17, 2003

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=
Click Here

Our "mined" diamonds will be worthless once these "natural made" diamonds are mass produced. In a year or two we will complain that we got so ripped off with what we paid for our mined diamonds.

A 1ct D IF solitaire will only be worth around $5 once these diamonds are released by Apollo and Gemesis.

People enjoy your diamonds in the next couple of years because soon they will be worth jack

Garry H (Cut Nut) · Dec 17, 2003

The same thing happened with ruby and sapphire.
In 1892.

The market colapsed and never ever recovered.
Natural Rubies are now quite worthless

Ho hum

Colored Gemstone Nut · Dec 17, 2003

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On 12/18/2003 2:25:38 AM Toska wrote:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=
Click Here

Our 'mined' diamonds will be worthless once these 'natural made' diamonds are mass produced. In a year or two we will complain that we got so ripped off with what we paid for our mined diamonds.

A 1ct D IF solitaire will only be worth around $5 once these diamonds are released by Apollo and Gemesis.

People enjoy your diamonds in the next couple of years because soon they will be worth jack

----------------

Well Toska,

The market has trends and synthetics have their market and so do real gems...

Being that these are lab created diamonds vs. synthetics I think they will have a niche in the market but it will hardly outweigh consumer demand for something that comes out of the ground...

They will have their place in the market just as synthetics do, but as Garry sarcastically points out, diamonds are here to stay "naturals plucked out of the earth" just as natural rubies and other precious gems have their market...

Nothing dramatic will come of this though...

Toska · Dec 17, 2003

Coloured Gemstone Nut, do you really think nothing dramatic will come of this?

If you consider a diamond which someone paid $10,000 for today being worth $5 in a couple of years then I think it is dramatic.

The diamonds being produced are not like cubic zirconia's, they are actually real diamonds. When it comes down to it, people want a real diamond, and they want it to sparkle, people won't get asked if it is "mined" or "created in a lab" when wearing it on their hand.

The only consellation that people with mined diamonds can have, is that their diamonds are millions of years old, compared to months old. Once again, when it comes down to it, people don't care where it came from, as long as it is real. Cubic Zirconia's do not reflect/refract light like a real diamond does. The lab created diamonds are virtually indistinguishable compared to a mined diamond. We shall see how it pans out in the futre. My prediction is that these "cultured diamonds" will make a massive influx into the market and shall soon become the latest craze, as people would love to have a perfect clarity diamond at half the price of a mined diamond.

Toska · Dec 17, 2003

Garry can see where I am coming from.
He won't be the one out of business, his ideal scope will sell millions, once these lab diamonds are produced. People will have a perfect diamond colour/size/clarity and the only factor left to consider is the perfect cut (ideal cut).

Jewellers will not be out of business, they will get more customers after these new diamonds.

The people who will benefit the most are good old Gazza and vendors/jewellers.
The consumer who has previously paid a fortune for a diamond from the earth will be the victim. Garry, are you interested in having a business partner? hehe

chris-uk04 · Dec 17, 2003

I doubt it will be as powerful as you may predict. People have previously thought that discoveries in Canada and Russia would cause the diamond industry to collapse, but it didn't. People who are mining the diamonds in Canada and Russia don't want to flood the market either. They want to cash in on the lucrative diamond market as well.

Another thing that will help them is fashionable demand. I see French connection t-shirts selling for £25. That's $45. Plenty of people buy them and wear them. Why do girls want 1 carat diamond rings? Why don't they want cubic zirconia? Why aren't annealed diamonds (monarch) more popular? Why aren't other treatments more popular?

Many girls won't want a lab created diamond. It's marketing and people's perceptions. Lab created diamonds wont fair as well as you might think. In short: don't loose any sleep over it. Interesting article though. good post.

Manks · Dec 17, 2003

I would guess that you will also have a problem with cultured stones being passed off as mined. If they are "real", how many vendors could tell the difference, let alone customers.

Toska · Dec 17, 2003

DeBeers Gem Defense Program

Click Here

Do you really think this will be enough? Jewellers will not be able to tell the difference between a lab created & mined diamond.

Garry H (Cut Nut) · Dec 18, 2003

Very few jewellers have ever been able to tell the massive variaty of treatments and synthetics.

But that has not stopped there being a very large price difference between natural and synthetic gem materials and imitations.

It is human nature Toska. Do not fret. the diamond market will not collapse because of a few more synthetics.

BTW can you find the name of that cutter who can take a rough man made 2ct diamond and cut a 1ct for less than $5 - i will give him a few thousand carat to cut

Toska · Dec 18, 2003

I would not call this a synthetic, it is a REAL diamond.
Chemical Vapor Deposition, is the one we have to watch out for.

It is virtually impossible to tell the difference between a Chemical Vapor Deposition diamond and a mined diamond. Even with all these fancy DeBeers machines, DiamondSure™ & DiamondView™ the main problem is that these diamonds will be passed off as mined diamonds. The $5 comment was a bit extreme

How will people know if their diamond is 3 months old or 3 million years old?

Garry H (Cut Nut) · Dec 18, 2003

It has all been said before.

When money is at stake, there will be a way.

Synthetic means synthetic

strmrdr · Dec 18, 2003

wake me up when I can actualy buy one in D vvs1 1ct for a couple hundred bucks.
I figure I will have a nice long nap.
When you look deeper into the story its mostly over-hyped press releases on vaporware.

aljdewey · Dec 18, 2003

Hey, Toska.....run a search on this wired thread. It was discussed ad nauseum a few months back, and much of the information in that article proved to be incorrect.

Chrisk327 · Dec 18, 2003

I read the article a month or 3 before I bought...

From what i've read, they're not there yet. they can't mass produce gem quality gems in quantity. CVD i beleive is going to be used "mainly" for the computer chip market and industrial use.

Gemisis is mainly working on colored now. and the discount (I think) is like 30% from naturals.

So basically.... noiselevel noow. Im happy i got my girl the natural diamond ring.... but earrings.... wouldn't mind some synthetics.....

Chris

Jennifer5973 · Dec 18, 2003

This if freaking me out...There was somehting on 20/20 a few months ago about this, with a spotlight on the Florida company.

I think of all the money I've spent on my diamond jewelry and feelliterally be sick thinking about this buzz and the real thing becoming next to worthless. I buy diamonds because I love their beuaty...they are not an investment, but to spend so much money and have them become respectively worthless is almost too much to bear...I will await more weigh-ins from the experts here... let's hopw this is a lot of hype and not so much substance...And to think I have been looking for a Fancy yellow for a planned three stone that might soon be available for $150 vs $15,000

.

DiamondExpert · Dec 18, 2003

Toska... no matter how you fry it, bake it, broil it...it's a synthetic diamond.

strmrdr · Dec 18, 2003

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On 12/18/2003 12:29:09 PM DiamondExpert wrote:

Toska... no matter how you fry it, bake it, broil it...it's a synthetic diamond.----------------

Who cares as long as it can’t be told from the real thing by the average person just casually looking at it and it has the same durability as the mined ones.
Diamonds are bought because it’s what women are taught to expect secondly for looks and durability.
There is no special "magic" in them.
If a synthetic comes along that is very comparable to the real thing in looks and durability I would buy it over the real thing anytime for a 50%-90% discount.
Anything else would be spending money for the sake of spending money.
Some people like to do that… I don’t.
That’s the same reason that when I buy some larger rubies and sapphires they will be synthetic.

Chrisk327 · Dec 18, 2003

Agreed, but for me it would have to be a significant discount. From what I heard it wouldn't be 50%. At least that isn't their goal.

Mara · Dec 18, 2003

Toska where have you been? This article has been sliced and diced about 3 times since it first came out....run some searches!

Also those synethics so far have not been able to come close to a colorless stone. The market for yellow diamonds may be more affected in the short-term.

Bottom line is that I seriously doubt real diamonds will become worthless....though I think it's more likely that more people will run around with the synethics and pass it off as the real thing (or maybe their fiance never tells them).

Would I buy or want a synthetic? Maybe for fun jewelry or 'going out' stuff that we could never afford on our own (e.g. collar of diamonds), but not for anything serious (e.g. wedding or e-ring). In my heart it would be like wearing a fake LV....what's the point? Even if everyone else doesn't know it, I do.

Also I would feel much less cool with lots of synethics on if EVERYONE and their mother had them. Something fun about diamonds, real ones, is that they are more rare when appearing in public.

magna2 · Dec 18, 2003

First of all, regardless of whether it is natural or man-made it cost a whole lot more thatn $5 to produce a 1 ct diamond from a rough. Not to mention the cost to produce the man-made rough. It was reported that Appollo could possibly sell a man-made diamond at about 25% less than its' natural counterpart. Having said that, there will always be a market that will pay a premium for the natural item. At best, there will be minimal impact to the diamond market.

DiamondExpert · Dec 18, 2003

strmrdr:

My point to Toska, who said, "I would not call this a synthetic, it is a REAL diamond.", is that if it's man made, it's synthetic and you had better not be representing it as "real".

I agree with you that, who cares, the advent of synthetics (whenever that happens on a large scale) will develop it's own market, and at the expense of natural diamonds...and the trade will have to live with it an adapt it to their advantage. I doubt, however, it will be a crushing blow in the long run.

I am a little surprised/disappointed to see this development, but I assume it will help keep the prices down...

http://www.professionaljeweler.com/archives/news/2003/121603story.html

strmrdr · Dec 18, 2003

Sorry DiamondExpert,
I read more into your post than you ment.

.............

I think it is going to be interesting watching this play out and the reactions of the b&m crowd.
If they react the same way they are doing to internet sales they might be in trouble. ie: ignore it, then criticize it , then bad talk it, then go out of business as more people get comfortable buying diamonds online and others change their practices to compete and they don’t.
The internet retailers will adapt quickly most likely.

dclenden · Dec 18, 2003

I know this fella down in Sarasota. I live in Tampa. An insiders note: The problem with the diamonds (and largely the reason they have not taken off) is the fact that they cant get the yellow out of them. Therefore, they have not found a way to make clear diamonds. Impurities in the crystallization process have lead him to only produce yellow ones. He has worked for years to get the yellow out and has not succeeded. So dont predict the collpase of the industry quite yet.

winyan · Dec 18, 2003

Hey Gil is that you masquerading as Toska? I know the site that 'must not be named' is very interested in synthetic diamonds, if you note the fact you've had the silly thread at the top of the 'diamonds' forum for almost half a year now. I guess Joseph is expanding his interests, huh?

wim

Garry H (Cut Nut) · Dec 18, 2003

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On 12/18/2003 2:47:25 PM dclenden wrote:

I know this fella down in Sarasota. I live in Tampa. An insiders note: The problem with the diamonds (and largely the reason they have not taken off) is the fact that they cant get the yellow out of them. Therefore, they have not found a way to make clear diamonds. Impurities in the crystallization process have lead him to only produce yellow ones. He has worked for years to get the yellow out and has not succeeded. So dont predict the collpase of the industry quite yet.----------------

It is not that there are impurities, 99% of colorless and yellow diamonds have the similar amounts of nitrogen.
It is that in nature over millions of years of being held at high temperatures natural diamonds enabled the nitrogen to migrate into little clumps of 3's called platelets, there by becoming colorless.
Most near perfectly pure diamonds are brownish.

winyan · Dec 18, 2003

From the IDX (International Diamond Exchange)

"Gemesis to Clearly Identify its Diamonds

(December 16, '03, 12:03 Edahn Golan)

Gemesis, makers of lab grown diamonds, is launching a program to assist retail jewelers, designers and consumers to clearly identify laboratory-created diamonds. It will laser inscribe the girdles of its polished diamonds “Gemesis Created” and add a serial number. /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>