Mahenge Garnets. Opinions?

[Tsavomn]

Ha, I knew something was up with the garnet listing. Nothing gets passed me lol.

Here is the current listing:




Here is a screenshot of this listing for the same stone that I took in late 2021. I've been on a long term hunt for a purple garnet so I save everything I see. If anyone is seriously interested in this stone, definitely negotiate down! Of course, I am not 'mad' at the seller or trying to bring them down - they could ask for a million dollars since after all it is their stone. Maybe they will argue their new price is justified because they could not get another like it. I have no issue with that.
I am however prioritizing the interests of a potential buyer who might come across this and find the information useful.




The lower price in the screenshot is backed up by the internet archive.

Mozambique Electric Purple Garnet 4.70 cts

Hey Loungers, By now I am convinced that you have heard of our immense love for the garnet family. We've been featuring quite a few purple grape garnets in these pages over the last two to three years and, few times have we been as wowed as we have been with this particular gem! The vibrant...

web.archive.org

Wow! $3700 more. That's great to know. Been unsold for almost 4 yrs.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Just because a stone has a much higher price on these sites mentioned above does not make them better stones that a person could find for much cheaper on IG, FB, even ESTY and e bay. But people do think that the higher the price the better the stone sometimes. Fact is, these people are paying for the seller's name, not the stone.

There is often a perception that a higher price means it's a better product. My wife has for 20 years been telling me to charge more, and I would sell more. Maybe she has been right all along.

 

[ShinyPink]

I have a ridiculous number of garnets. My favorite Mahenge ones have come from Gene and Jeff. When I've set Gene's, the vendors commented on how exceptional the cutting and color were. I also have a lovely one from CvB.

Here are two of Gene's:





And the CvB:

 

[fredflintstone]

There is often a perception that a higher price means it's a better product. My wife has for 20 years been telling me to charge more, and I would sell more. Maybe she has been right all along.

Well, Gene, sometimes with some people that is very true.

 

[toomuchB]

There is often a perception that a higher price means it's a better product. My wife has for 20 years been telling me to charge more, and I would sell more. Maybe she has been right all along.

So I'm not a business expert, just rambling.
I think this perception generally exists. But I think it's not simply a case of increasing pricing but part a overall vibe/marketing/mindset strategy as well.
A dealer like Yavorskyy has many really exceptional stones, but they seem to never/rarely sell, but this perception of exceptionality trickles down to all his material. Having a crazy 20ct Tsavorite listed makes the 2cts appear like they belong in same caliber, especially when similar wording is used to describe them.

Or Asialounges, they keep those sold gorgeous 10+k purple garnets listed so the 2-5cts get that 'contagious' value/desirability.

Isn't there a salesperson tactic to first show the buyer something you know they can't afford, then something that is just in their budget/slightly above?
Similar idea.
Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Rfisher]

We just need an unbiased person to buy one ‘overpriced name brand’ large mahenge garnet and one with similar color and size and cutting that’s ‘reasonably priced’ from Etsy or IG and compare them.
simple!
See if the color saturation, hue, retention, performance, whatever it is that makes a gem, gemmy or trade ideal or top of the line rare - worth the asking price, over the cheaper ones that may not be. Can’t tell via pictures.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

We just need an unbiased person to buy one ‘overpriced name brand’ large mahenge garnet and one with similar color and size and cutting that’s ‘reasonably priced’ from Etsy or IG and compare them.
simple!

Haha not buying this one but look at the price

The "Sun Shard" Mandarin Garnet 6.51 cts

Hey Loungers, Fourth and last entry of this Mandarin garnet collection, this gem is possibly our favorite. Albeit clear clarity issues, the velvety appearance and rich orange hue turned this gemstone into a one of a kind! Contact us to see her "burning" under the sun light and understand why...

www.asialounges.com

Mine is 8+ carats and I paid less than 1/6th of that price. However I am the queen of settling and who knows, maybe the $9000 garnet is the most epic garnet ever!

 

[toomuchB]

We just need an unbiased person to buy one ‘overpriced name brand’ large mahenge garnet and one with similar color and size and cutting that’s ‘reasonably priced’ from Etsy or IG and compare them.
simple!
See if the color saturation, hue, retention, performance, whatever it is that makes a gem, gemmy or trade ideal or top of the line rare - worth the asking price, over the cheaper ones that may not be. Can’t tell via pictures.

Hm, if we do this I will start my own business claiming even BETTER material, better than the current best, watch out

 

[Tsavomn]

Question for you guys and gals. Why when i post a video from Imgur. The video says Share? It doesn't say that until i post it? I don't want it to be shared. I didn't see that in other videos from Imgur here.

 

[Avondale]

who knows, maybe the $9000 garnet is the most epic garnet ever!

The most epic disappointment, more likely.

 

[toomuchB]

Question for you guys and gals. Why when i post a video from Imgur. The video says Share? It doesn't say that until i post it? I don't want it to be shared. I didn't see that in other videos from Imgur here.

Hi, sorry but not sure what you mean exactly because I've never had this problem.

What I do is I drag and drop the images or videos into the imgur website, then a new page opens with the images/videos. By default this media is not publically visible. For others to see it they need the url/link. It's possible to also set it to public.

So, with your post that is by default hidden, try copy-pasting the URL (the link) where you want people to see it, like here. Ignore any share button.

Try another browser if the problem persists.
Also you don't need an account to do the above - if you are using one maybe that is why the extra options.

 

[tarung81]

I'm actually not surprised by the price increases, as most material costs have risen due to supply shocks and the surge in demand following COVID — especially with all the stimulus checks issued by Western governments.

Rubies, sapphires, and emeralds that I used to purchase for just $500 to $1,000 per carat are now being offered at $3,000 to over $20,000 per carat — and people are still willing to pay these new prices.

Like all commodities, it comes down to the basic dynamics of supply and demand.

That said, I do agree that for this particular garnet — which leans toward a darker, almost amethyst-like purple — the price does seem a bit on the higher side.

 

[toomuchB]

I'm actually not surprised by the price increases, as most material costs have risen due to supply shocks and the surge in demand following COVID — especially with all the stimulus checks issued by Western governments.

Rubies, sapphires, and emeralds that I used to purchase for just $500 to $1,000 per carat are now being offered at $3,000 to over $20,000 per carat — and people are still willing to pay these new prices.

Like all commodities, it comes down to the basic dynamics of supply and demand.

That said, I do agree that for this particular garnet — which leans toward a darker, almost amethyst-like purple — the price does seem a bit on the higher side.

I feel like Ive been hearing of prices going up and up for years before COVID. It is like the status operandi in the gem world to claim this. There is a clear marketing incentive to claim so, which raises my eyebrow and so I do not take this for face value.

I am not saying you are wrong/challenging your assertions for today's market, just that I have heard similar things over and over, and they often feel exaggerated. Goods at more expected prices are available. At least, for the types of goods we tend buy here - mostly not top end material. I would like to see an example of a 500-1000/ct emerald that is now 3-20k/ct (You are a vendor, so unfortunately you cannot share), that is justifiably priced, cannot be negotiated down to something much more reasonable, and a lower priced example cannot be found with a little effort.

But, I am not in the trade with first hand access. Your input is appreciated, I am worried I came off as combative when that is not my intention at all. My perspective - I see price increases in some materials and in certain qualities (e,g very good to top quality Burmese rubies and spinels, or pink diamonds) but I question whether its the default across the board. Maybe because there is still plenty of stock dealers have from before prices went up. Just rambling thoughts

 

[Tsavomn]

Hi, sorry but not sure what you mean exactly because I've never had this problem.

What I do is I drag and drop the images or videos into the imgur website, then a new page opens with the images/videos. By default this media is not publically visible. For others to see it they need the url/link. It's possible to also set it to public.

So, with your post that is by default hidden, try copy-pasting the URL (the link) where you want people to see it, like here. Ignore any share button.

Try another browser if the problem persists.
Also you don't need an account to do the above - if you are using one maybe that is why the extra options.

Thanks for your reply and help. I am new to Imgur too. That doesn't help any. I did what you said. With different browsers too. With and without my account. What's strange to me. Is when i bring the video to Imgur website. It loads ok an all. There is no "share" anywhere on the video, or on the website. I copy it and past the link here. And when i open the link here to test it. The video plays fine. And it has the share button. On top right hand corner of the video? And the share button does allow you to share the video.

Anyway. Like you said too. Ignore the share button. I'll do that. Thanks again.

 

[toomuchB]

Thanks for your reply and help. I am new to Imgur too. That doesn't help any. I did what you said. With different browsers too. With and without my account. What's strange to me. Is when i bring the video to Imgur website. It loads ok an all. There is no "share" anywhere on the video, or on the website. I copy it and past the link here. And when i open the link here to test it. The video plays fine. And it has the share button. On top right hand corner of the video? And the share button does allow you to share the video.

Anyway. Like you said too. Ignore the share button. I'll do that. Thanks again.

Hmm I'm sure we will get it to work! I'm looking at my video imgur posts.
Do you mean this? This is the top right for me where I see share options. If this is the case, then I ignore it, and just post the URL. If it is something else, not sure it is on my interface or that I understand your concern.

OK rereading what you read above - just click the green 'copy' button and then paste that link. That link is what you want to copy here. For example below this image I will click the 'copy button' and paste it.



The link after I clicked 'copy' and pasted it - seems to work. Let me know if you run into issues:

https://imgur.com/a/OPVe42Y

 

[Saphir]

I cant believe that the prices are real in US$. R u sure guys that are no other $ are mean with?

 

[Saphir]

The Dollar sign could be from Singapur after i google it, looks like the same. But prices would be high too imo.

 

[toomuchB]

The Dollar sign could be from Singapur after i google it, looks like the same. But prices would be high too imo.

They are based in Thailand. So chances are its USD as that is standard currency for gem dealers there.
Per their IG description:
Silom soi 19, Prasaphong building, floor 6, room 6B, Bangkok, Thailand 10500

But who knows, maybe it is SGD.

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[fredflintstone]

I'm actually not surprised by the price increases, as most material costs have risen due to supply shocks and the surge in demand following COVID — especially with all the stimulus checks issued by Western governments.

Rubies, sapphires, and emeralds that I used to purchase for just $500 to $1,000 per carat are now being offered at $3,000 to over $20,000 per carat — and people are still willing to pay these new prices.

Like all commodities, it comes down to the basic dynamics of supply and demand.

That said, I do agree that for this particular garnet — which leans toward a darker, almost amethyst-like purple — the price does seem a bit on the higher side.

Price on many stones always go up until they hit that plateau which is rarely climbed.

Spinel is a case in point. I used to be able to buy high quality 3 carat plus Red Spinel for $250 to $400 a carat. The Mahenge find came in 2004 or 2005, if I remember correctly and what seemed like overnight, they were asking 1000% increase. Then the rest of Spinel followed suit. You couldn't give a gray Spinel away 10 years ago or more, now I've seen them ask $600 a carat.

Now, Tourmaline is experiencing the same thing. Especially Afghanistan "Lagoon" colored Tourmaline.

In the 90's with the Nigerian Rubellite find I was paying $40 to 60 a carat for top untreated stones.

I was paying $100 to $200 a carat for top Mandarin Garnet over 5 carats in the 90's.

I could go on...

 

[fredflintstone]

I feel like Ive been hearing of prices going up and up for years before COVID. It is like the status operandi in the gem world to claim this. There is a clear marketing incentive to claim so, which raises my eyebrow and so I do not take this for face value.

I am not saying you are wrong/challenging your assertions for today's market, just that I have heard similar things over and over, and they often feel exaggerated. Goods at more expected prices are available. At least, for the types of goods we tend buy here - mostly not top end material. I would like to see an example of a 500-1000/ct emerald that is now 3-20k/ct (You are a vendor, so unfortunately you cannot share), that is justifiably priced, cannot be negotiated down to something much more reasonable, and a lower priced example cannot be found with a little effort.

But, I am not in the trade with first hand access. Your input is appreciated, I am worried I came off as combative when that is not my intention at all. My perspective - I see price increases in some materials and in certain qualities (e,g very good to top quality Burmese rubies and spinels, or pink diamonds) but I question whether its the default across the board. Maybe because there is still plenty of stock dealers have from before prices went up. Just rambling thoughts

Stones are a lot more accessible now. There are many times the buyers and sellers for colored gemstones now than say up to the mid 90's. Why? Gemstone and jewelry TV and the biggest reason, the internet.

The world is a smaller place now that everyone is connected by the internet. More people, more demand, higher prices. Also, these source dealers can now see the prices western dealers were selling their stones for, they want the pie too, and they are building in numbers, every day someone new pops up.

It is a whole new world of selling and buying gemstones for the last three decades and the whole world is participating.

But with the above said, I can see gemstone prices falling in the near future, just too many sellers out there trying to divide the pie. Overkill.

 

[PrecisionGem]

I'm actually not surprised by the price increases, as most material costs have risen due to supply shocks and the surge in demand following COVID — especially with all the stimulus checks issued by Western governments.

Rubies, sapphires, and emeralds that I used to purchase for just $500 to $1,000 per carat are now being offered at $3,000 to over $20,000 per carat — and people are still willing to pay these new prices.

Like all commodities, it comes down to the basic dynamics of supply and demand.

That said, I do agree that for this particular garnet — which leans toward a darker, almost amethyst-like purple — the price does seem a bit on the higher side.

I think these price increases are over stated. I have an old copy of the most popular gem price guide from 2011, and if I look at the price for Emerald in Extra Fine quality 2 to 2.99 ct and compare to todays listing I see this:

2011 - price per ct $6400 to $8000
2025 - price per ct $6350 to $8750

Ruby heated same size as above and quality

2011 - price per ct $9000 to $13500
2025 - price per ct $10750 to $13200

The one stone I see the most dramatic price increase is Montana Sapphire. But this I due to the young generation buying them in place of diamonds for engagement rings, thinking they are avoid conflict and ethically sourced, and environmental green etc.

As far as rough goes, there have been price increases over the past 25 years I have been cutting but for the most part nothing like an order of magnitude. For many stones the rough prices are very similar to what I was paying 15 or 20 years ago, some due to popularity have gone up more. I'm thinking about things like Tsavorite Garnet and Spinel.

The cutters labor rates of course had to go up over that span just like anyone else. I'm sure you are making more per hour now than you did in the year 2000.