"Madame, your child is shrieking." Can this dinner be saved?

[MMtwo]

Hubby and I just ran to a local Italian chain restaurant before his shift began this evening. We sat beside a table with a little one in a highchair and a preschooler.

The family had a nice slow meal with the little one making loud vocalizations the entire time ARRRAGGGGAHHHAHHHHHHHH, ARAGGGAHHHHHHHHHHH...
Hubby and I didn't say anything or complain, but the noise was very unpleasant. The family stayed until the last 10 minutes of our dinner.

Anyhow, I have been thinking of ways to avoid this situation in the future.

Maybe ask not to be seated near small children.
Maybe ask to be moved.

Any ingenious solutions?

 

[Slickk]

Sorry this happened to you because it does put a damper on your meal out. I always scope out the restaurant as we’re being seated.
I have had to ask hosts to seat us away from families with small children. Once it seemed like we were placed strategically in between several small-child families and I kindly would not even sit down. I gently explained to the hostess who quickly agreed and moved us. Questionable seating especially since DH and I are nearly retirement age.

 

[missy]

Sorry you experienced this @MMtwo

We left a restaurant before due to this. In that case it was a Saturday evening at 8pm.

The children were shrieking and running around the restaurant. The parents did nothing.

We were out with friends. We changed plans and went to a different restaurant. One that was nice and quiet.

IMO don’t take little kids to a nice (ie expensive) restaurant at 8pm if your child cannot behave.

Not all children behave like this. But the ones who do ruin it for everyone.

You are not the center of the universe
Your child is not the center of the universe
Be considerate of others

JMO

I’ll add some restaurants near us have now banned children. I fully support this. Because of parents like the above.

 

[PinkAndBlueBling]

I usually try to tune them out, and repeatedly tell myself I'm SO glad my kids are adults!

 

[Redwoods-hiker-girl]

Sorry this happened to you because it does put a damper on your meal out. I always scope out the restaurant as we’re being seated.
I have had to ask hosts to seat us away from families with small children. Once it seemed like we were placed strategically in between several small-child families and I kindly would not even sit down. I gently explained to the hostess who quickly agreed and moved us. Questionable seating especially since DH and I are nearly retirement age.

I do the same!

 

[MMtwo]

Sorry this happened to you because it does put a damper on your meal out. I always scope out the restaurant as we’re being seated.
I have had to ask hosts to seat us away from families with small children. Once it seemed like we were placed strategically in between several small-child families and I kindly would not even sit down. I gently explained to the hostess who quickly agreed and moved us. Questionable seating especially since DH and I are nearly retirement age.

Thank you. Sometimes I like to plan ahead to the next time, so we're ready to avoid an unpleasant situation. You are so wise to avoid in the first place. I think next time we will do the same, even asking to be seated away from young children, or maybe sit in the bar area.

Sorry you experienced this @MMtwo

We left a restaurant before due to this. In that case it was a Saturday evening at 8pm.

The children were shrieking and running around the restaurant. The parents did nothing.

We were out with friends. We changed plans and went to a different restaurant. One that was nice and quiet.

IMO don’t take little kids to a nice (ie expensive) restaurant at 8pm if your child cannot behave.

Not all children behave like this. But the ones who do ruin it for everyone.

You are not the center of the universe
Your child is not the center of the universe
Be considerate of others

JMO

I’ll add some restaurants near us have now banned children. I fully support this. Because of parents like the above.

I also support child free dining in establishments that are meant for adult dining. When my children were small, we did everything we could to find a sitter for the evening. Even when this could not be arranged, a fussy child would mean a trip to the car for one parent while the party enjoyed their food.

I usually try to tune them out, and repeatedly tell myself I'm SO glad my kids are adults!

Amen!
Whew, we made it!

I do the same!

We did and hoped for things to quiet down. I would not say anything to the parents. Next time though, I hope to sidestep the situation altogether. Quietly and not causing any sort of discomfort for anyone.

 

[telephone89]

Honestly most of my dining these days is in lounges where kids aren't allowed. My local pub started allowing children and it basically ruined it for me

 

[seaurchin]

I wouldn't hesitate to ask to be moved if it happens again. I think the fair thing would be for the restaurant manager to handle disruptive diners in their restaurant in the first place, rather than just expect the ones who aren't causing any trouble to suffer. Ignorant people keep doing whatever they please because get away with it imo.

When mine were little, we took it as a given that we might have to take a child out to the car to calm down or ask for to-go boxes and leave at any time. Little ones easily get beyond their coping abilities and older ones only learn how to behave when consequences are enforced for acting up. I bet we'd see a lot less disruptive kids in restaurants if their parents had ever been asked to leave over it.

 

[TooPatient]

I wouldn't hesitate to ask to be moved if it happens again. I think the fair thing would be for the restaurant manager to handle disruptive diners in their restaurant in the first place, rather than just expect the ones who aren't causing any trouble to suffer. Ignorant people keep doing whatever they please because get away with it imo.

When mine were little, we took it as a given that we might have to take a child out to the car to calm down or ask for to-go boxes and leave at any time. Little ones easily get beyond their coping abilities and older ones only learn how to behave when consequences are enforced for acting up. I bet we'd see a lot less disruptive kids in restaurants if their parents had ever been asked to leave over it.

We were having dinner out before COVID. A kid who was old enough to be told to sit still had her feet up in the air kicking the seat of the booth we were in. She ended up kicking me in the head a few times. I turned around and told the man to tell his daughter to sit nicely as I already had issues with headaches and vision problems and did not need her to make it worse by kicking my head again. He stood up and nearly hit me. I was sitting the whole time. The waitresses all headed out way and looked like they expected him to hit me too. Anyway, they left soon after and the waitresses all thanked me. They aren't allowed to say anything no matter how badly behaved a kid is and she had been running around all over including behind the counter. They had several near misses tripping over her before we even got there. Managers and owners who do speak up often find themselves being smeared through social media for not liking kids. No one wants to be the bad guy or risk accusations that bring lawsuits or even just a bad reputation in the community.

 

[yssie]

Hubby and I just ran to a local Italian chain restaurant before his shift began this evening. We sat beside a table with a little one in a highchair and a preschooler.

The family had a nice slow meal with the little one making loud vocalizations the entire time ARRRAGGGGAHHHAHHHHHHHH, ARAGGGAHHHHHHHHHHH...
Hubby and I didn't say anything or complain, but the noise was very unpleasant. The family stayed until the last 10 minutes of our dinner.

Anyhow, I have been thinking of ways to avoid this situation in the future.

Maybe ask not to be seated near small children.
Maybe ask to be moved.

Any ingenious solutions?

This sounds terrible. I’m really sorry.

I’ve reached the point where a meal out is precious time that I have to scrimp and save for, and that I will *not* have ruined by someone else’s poor manners. So these days I’ll say something and I won’t be apologetic.

One time it was a family with a child who was clearly disabled. Child would randomly screech her head off for maybe twenty seconds and then stop abruptly. Silence for a few minutes. Then another screech. Yup, I walked up to the father, informed him none-too-quietly that his child was giving me a headache, and asked him to please make some alternate arrangements that would allow me and other patrons to dine comfortably - because his child’s behaviour was intolerable.

Family looked uncomfortable and hurried out. One couple a few booths down spent the rest of their dinner glaring at me. Probably five other tables - including another family with small kids! - just looked relieved.

 

[dk168]

I avoid busy times and family restaurants if I can help it, fast food outlets aside as I don't stay in those for very long.

I am childless by choice.

I have been reminded that children who behave like this may have medical issues that are not obvious like physical disabilities, and I am mindful of that.

However it does not mean I should sit there and suffer and not enjoy my meal that I am paying for.

Therefore, I would be inclined to leave the restaurant if the situation does not improve after some words with the staff to complain.

DK

 

[yssie]

However it does not mean I should sit there and suffer and not enjoy my meal that I am paying for.

This. I just really don’t care.

Fourteen years ago I had two wedding ceremonies - one Indian and one Jewish. During the Indian celebration coconuts were broken for blessings, and there were extra coconuts in a basket. And #CousinNumberThousand’s kid was playing with them. During my wedding ceremony. Now, Indian weddings are long and they aren’t staid affairs - people are free to walk around, talk to each other… But throwing coconuts is a far cry from acceptable. My mother told me to just let it go, “he’s just a child”, “he doesn’t know better”. Things to not say to the bride, lol.

 

[MMtwo]

Thank you for the replies! I am sure we have all been in a comparable situation before. I do love how you ladies think.

Honestly most of my dining these days is in lounges where kids aren't allowed. My local pub started allowing children and it basically ruined it for me

Yikes, kids scampering around a pub sounds pretty dreadful. Don't people visit pubs to get away and have a beer and a few jokes?

I wouldn't hesitate to ask to be moved if it happens again. I think the fair thing would be for the restaurant manager to handle disruptive diners in their restaurant in the first place, rather than just expect the ones who aren't causing any trouble to suffer. Ignorant people keep doing whatever they please because get away with it imo.

When mine were little, we took it as a given that we might have to take a child out to the car to calm down or ask for to-go boxes and leave at any time. Little ones easily get beyond their coping abilities and older ones only learn how to behave when consequences are enforced for acting up. I bet we'd see a lot less disruptive kids in restaurants if their parents had ever been asked to leave over it.

I did gently drop a hint, when the server came by the table and said, "how is it so far?" "Loud", I replied.

I did not engage partly because I figured they were on their way out. They just "hung out" with their foghorn baby, asking for cups to go, boxes and all sorts of extra accommodations. My husband and I did that whole non-verbal eye conversation. "Kill me now", "There goes date night". Won't they leave already?". Then the dad stood up and said he needed to go "freshen up".
"internal sob".

I do remember my own upbringing, at an age of understanding, you were to sit quietly in a restaurant. It was important not to bother other people.

We were having dinner out before COVID. A kid who was old enough to be told to sit still had her feet up in the air kicking the seat of the booth we were in. She ended up kicking me in the head a few times. I turned around and told the man to tell his daughter to sit nicely as I already had issues with headaches and vision problems and did not need her to make it worse by kicking my head again. He stood up and nearly hit me. I was sitting the whole time. The waitresses all headed out way and looked like they expected him to hit me too. Anyway, they left soon after and the waitresses all thanked me. They aren't allowed to say anything no matter how badly behaved a kid is and she had been running around all over including behind the counter. They had several near misses tripping over her before we even got there. Managers and owners who do speak up often find themselves being smeared through social media for not liking kids. No one wants to be the bad guy or risk accusations that bring lawsuits or even just a bad reputation in the community.

I feel very sorry for wait staff that have to put up with such nonsense in silence. The customer is sometimes right, but in disturbing other diners, they are wrong.

The man's behavior sounds pretty upsetting. Glad he did not touch you.

This sounds terrible. I’m really sorry.

I’ve reached the point where a meal out is precious time that I have to scrimp and save for, and that I will *not* have ruined by someone else’s poor manners. So these days I’ll say something and I won’t be apologetic.

One time it was a family with a child who was clearly disabled. Child would randomly screech her head off for maybe twenty seconds and then stop abruptly. Silence for a few minutes. Then another screech. Yup, I walked up to the father, informed him none-too-quietly that his child was giving me a headache, and asked him to please make some alternate arrangements that would allow me and other patrons to dine comfortably - because his child’s behaviour was intolerable.

Family looked uncomfortable and hurried out. One couple a few booths down spent the rest of their dinner glaring at me. Probably five other tables - including another family with small kids! - just looked relieved.

yssie, good for you. You saved dinner for a few persons that night. While I am not usually the one to confront (my own issue) I have been thankful if someone had spoke up last night.

I avoid busy times and family restaurants if I can help it, fast food outlets aside as I don't stay in those for very long.

I am childless by choice.

I have been reminded that children who behave like this may have medical issues that are not obvious like physical disabilities, and I am mindful of that.

However it does not mean I should sit there and suffer and not enjoy my meal that I am paying for.

Therefore, I would be inclined to leave the restaurant if the situation does not improve after some words with the staff to complain.

DK

Right! no suffering should be tolerated. I can look past a squawk or two from a kid, but endless vocalizations are unfair.

I wonder if restaurants should build a family room and seat families with children under 6 within the space. Win win!

This. I just really don’t care.

Fourteen years ago I had two wedding ceremonies - one Indian and one Jewish. During the Indian celebration coconuts were broken for blessings, and there were extra coconuts in a basket. And #CousinNumberThousand’s kid was playing with them. During my wedding ceremony. Now, Indian weddings are long and they aren’t staid affairs - people are free to walk around, talk to each other… But throwing coconuts is a far cry from acceptable. My mother told me to just let it go, “he’s just a child”, “he doesn’t know better”. Things to not say to the bride, lol.

Mom should have stepped in and checked the coconut fondling. It's a tough day. in my own family, during my wedding a few years ago, my darling niece to be had a full time babysitter hired with the purpose to keep her entertained. I may look back with 20/20 vision and questions some of the decisions I made, but that was worth every penny! I have activity books, crayons, games, all sorts of things to keep the situation distracted and children in the nursery. It worked for 89% of the time. AT one point though, I do remember her running through the reception with cupcake smeared across her face .

Oh well.

 

[hardwear]

I have 2 kids ( really adults in early 20's ) and I remember the pain of going out to eat. And now I cannot stand the loud, kicking, running around, misbehaved kids.
Disabilities I understand and am most forgiving.

A different perspective:
We had 1 experience with our 1st born who was 2 years of age at the time, we got embarrassed asked them to pack up our food and we left. No way to control that age, nothing loud or verbal from her- but she would take small bits of food and throw on the floor-. After that, it was fast food, take out at home or dinner at friends, grandparents for a while.

A little story that still brings tears to my eyes...Fast forward a few years, 2 children now- still young 5 and 3. Been eating out for a while and traveling, now that they knew how to behave. We took a trip to UK and DH had a business meeting in Cheshire for 1 night, we decided to go as a family and stay at this beautiful, country house.
Shrigley Hall near Peak District ( go there- its gorgeous! ). I was excited to stay there, the history, grounds, location....bit of an anglophile here. Stayed there the night, next morning DH had an early meeting, so he ate early and left. The kids and I got ready and went down to this amazing room all set up for breakfast, everything beautifully set and just so charming. I approached praying my kids and I would make it through this breakfast, otherwise room service. We sat down and took our time eating, now they were behaving fine. But kids are kids, they talk, gesture, and are excitable by new things. I kept reminding them to have inside voice. I remember looking up and caught a women staring at us, I thought uh oh..time to leave. Here's this couple probably trying to have a romantic weekend and we are ruining it. We were 1/2 way through and didn't want to rush a delicious breakfast. Meanwhile, I kept sneaking peeks over to this women and husband and sure enough they were staring at us on and off.
Finally we were done, I was relieved and we were leaving. The kids were excited to climb these grand staircase to get back to the main area and were talking to each other. Well of course the couple is leaving at the same time and I thought here it comes...This women and her husband walk towards us and I am nervously trying to move my kids along faster... She approaches me says hello and smiles and proceeds to tell me that I have very well behaved kids and that I did a wonderful job of handling them and praised me for being a good mother. I nearly died, that was not what I was expecting! She made me so happy and feel so confident. I still think about her every so often. She was the first person to ever praise me on my parenting, it took a stranger to say something loving to make me so happy.
Wherever she is today, I truly hope she is happy! One thing I did take away from this is to acknowledge and praise the parents that really do try in public.

Jeez-- that became a little novel! Sorry!

* but - I agree going forward asked to be moved ; )

 

[Avondale]

In law, one of the founding principles is that your rights end where other people's rights begin. In other words, you cannot exercise your rights to an extent that is damaging to others - this is no longer exercising your own rights, this is infringing on other people's rights and causing damage.

And while a small child has no concept of the world and quite literally doesn't know better indeed, the parent does. Even legally, although children themselves bear no responsibility, that doesn't mean responsibility doesn't exist at all. It is instead born by the parent.

Just as it would be very frowned upon if an adult would walk into a restaurant, sit at a table, pull out a pan from their bag and start banging on it with a spoon, it should be equally frowned upon when an adult brings a child into a restaurant and said child causes a similar level of cacophony.

Nothing against the children. Every single bit against the inconsiderate parents who believe themselves entitled to cause all kinds of ruckus and respond with little less other than "it's just a child".

 

[kenny]

...

The children were shrieking and running around the restaurant. The parents did nothing.
...

As I walked out of that restaurant I would have tossed a couple condoms onto their table.

 

[dk168]

When my siblings and I were toddlers, my parents would bring us along to big family events if we behaved ourselves, otherwise we would be taken home by the maid would accompany us to the event in our chauffeur-driven car on standby.

Those were the days when children should be seen but not heard etc...

DK

 

[dk168]

This. I just really don’t care.

Fourteen years ago I had two wedding ceremonies - one Indian and one Jewish. During the Indian celebration coconuts were broken for blessings, and there were extra coconuts in a basket. And #CousinNumberThousand’s kid was playing with them. During my wedding ceremony. Now, Indian weddings are long and they aren’t staid affairs - people are free to walk around, talk to each other… But throwing coconuts is a far cry from acceptable. My mother told me to just let it go, “he’s just a child”, “he doesn’t know better”. Things to not say to the bride, lol.

Not to this bride who knows what she wants and how to get it!

DK

 

[missy]

As I walked out of that restaurant I would have tossed a couple condoms onto their table.

Ha. We don’t need condoms anymore (one good thing about menopause) so I never have any on me. But in any case I find people like that feel they *must* procreate and carry on their genetics. I also find they tend to have more children than the average. Ironic isn’t it

But I like the way you think

 

[springerspaniel]

My husband and I invented the kid-a-pult in our minds to deal with this...

 

[MMtwo]

HAHAHA, my people!

 

[kenny]

... But in any case I find people like that feel they *must* procreate and carry on their genetics. ...

Humans are nothing more important than DNA's way of perpetuating itself.

We are DNA's bitches.

We can't, but DNA can have eternal life ... literally!

 

[missy]

Humans are nothing more important than DNA's way of perpetuating itself.

We are DNA's bitches.

We can't, but DNA can have eternal life ... literally!

I’m glad I didn’t pass on my DNA. Mine is not great. I purposefully didn’t want to continue my DNA

 

[kenny]

I’m glad I didn’t pass on my DNA. Mine is not great. I purposefully didn’t want to continue my DNA

+1

 

[dk168]

I had done this on a number of occasions ...

If a child stared at me, I would stare at him/her back until he/she blinked first and looked away.

DK

 

[dk168]

I’m glad I didn’t pass on my DNA. Mine is not great. I purposefully didn’t want to continue my DNA

Same reason why I am childless by choice - there is enough variations in the gene pool without mine.

DK

 

[Rfisher]

As much as I may agree with a few of the comments here

I’m waiting for the parents of special needs children to chime in.
Is it more acceptable with a special needs child, if the disturbance is the same?
And how does one know if a strangers child is special needs or not? Is all special needs children the same, or is there different levels of acceptability? I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the kids in the incidents related here do or will have an IEP/504 at school.

As much mainstreaming that is done in our local public school - and deemed acceptable / educational / creates awareness and acceptability and empathy for their peers -
I guess I struggle with the thought of inclusivity vs separate but equal.

 

[MMtwo]

I have a special needs child...well, now 30 and an adult, but autistic spectrum.
If he was unlikely or unable to sit quietly, he stayed at a sitter, or we left for the comfort of others.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Parents today aren’t like mine or even what I was as a parent of young children. We didn’t eat out frequently when they were small but they were behaved. No one got up from the table to run around. No one cried or they would have been taken out to sit the rest of the time in the car or until they straightened up. We never felt that the world was their oyster to do in what they wished. My own children with their kids are the same way. Even as infants and toddlers, they were immediately taken out if they were crying. This is how children learn what is acceptable and what is not. Guess there is some truth to parenting the way you were parented.

I can certainly give some latitude to special needs children but still - the parents have to be responsible for them. They know their deficits and need to make their dining choices accordingly. I certainly would have done so.

We have always felt that we had a responsibility to other diners to be quiet and not an issue. Sadly, that line of thinking has not been returned to us! We were out to dinner Saturday evening with my son and his family. A large party of eight was seated close to us. No children but the adults were very loud and boisterous. I will never understand the lack of personal awareness that people should display when dining out in close proximity to others. I have never seen any management personnel ask anyone to alter their noise level! In today’s world, going out to dinner is truly enter at your own risk. It is a real crapshoot as to whether you will be able to dine in peace.

 

[Tonks]

We have kids, and our POV on this was that they had no business in restaurants until they could behave. Which meant that we didn’t dine out with them until they were…oh gosh…maybe 8? Nine? We started taking them to lunch after church. But dinners—those waited. If the two of us wanted to go to an adult dinner we got a sitter.

So I actually have very little patience for kids in restaurants. I cannot stand it when people bring little ones and let them scream. To me, it feels like, dang it, I did my time for the rest of society, now it’s your turn.

But we’re not eating indoors because of Covid anyway, so it doesn’t really matter now.

The other interesting trend in our area is that people do seem to take kids everywhere. We have a ton of breweries. People will go and bring the kids. I just….idk, maybe I’m old fashioned, but that isn’t something that I would really do.

What I have observed is that some of the generation having children now seem to expect to continue the exact same lifestyle they were living before children, only now with children. That’s going to result in some bumps in the road somewhere. Our lifestyle changed dramatically when our children were born.