Low LGF%? Need advice on this stone

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:21:03 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
A complete side-note, but all Infinity-rounds have a HCA-score close to 0.5
Live long,

huh? at one time that was true when you were cutting a lot of shallower pavilion stones but I just searched your website and all the ones I looked at would score in the 1 range....

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/18/2007 9:01:18 AM
Author: michaelgem


echelon6

The Diamond Cut Accordance article may be the first formal addressing of your important question.

http://www.acagemlab.com/articles/sweetspot/index.html

Those of you who have read this recent Journal Article are aware that I devote a large section to
establishing why roughly 77% is the heart of the sweet spot of Ideal for this important,
second only to pavilion angle, dimension in round brilliant diamond cutting.



In the section “The importance of the length of the pavilion halves” I conclude by saying:


“This comparison of optical performance
and the previous one in Figure 8 support the
observation that an attractive balance between
the areas occupied by the pavilion mains and halves is
necessary for these two central reasons.


A number of individuals, diamond
manufacturers, and this investigator agree that
the best balance between the area of the main
reflections and the area of the halves is obtained
with a 75% to 80% length of the pavilion halves.


This is the sweet spot range of lower half length
that retains the large flash sparkle and fire and
at the same time provides a greater amount
of scintillation.


The range of possible GIA
''Excellent'' lower girdle facet lengths is 70% to
85%. Both ranges have the same 77.5% as the
centre of the sweet spot of lower half length.


Prior to this conclusion are supporting discussions, photographs and DiamCalc photorealistic simulations.

Ideal regards,

Michael

PS I agree with Paul and others that LGF% is meaningless by itself. The reason it is second in
importance to pavilion angle is that this length indicates the amount of pavilion area occupied
by the halves compared to the area occupied by the mains.

Among my conclusions is the statement:

''Essential to the concept of
‘Ideal’ is the balance of the properties of
reflections from the pavilion main facets and
the pavilion halves (the lower girdle facets.)''

Michael,

Can you please just post the relevant parts of of your articles that pertain to the discussion at hand and without references to pictures not included. I do not wish to leave Pricescope to go look at a long article that may have only a small portion relevant to the discussion.

Also, who are the number of individuals and diamond manufacturers that you quote as agreeing with you, as those of us who may or may not agree with you would like to know. In this instance I concord that the center of the range is 77.5%, but strongly dissagree that 75% is as low as one should go. If you are going to claim that you are in the mainstream then please pay us the courtesy of disclosing who the mainstream is.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:22:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

Storm,

Buddy, yes I sell the Infinity diamonds from Paul because I find them to be first among equals. (Go ahead John and Jonathon, feel free to chime in and disagree with me, we can have our own little "war" here.)

However, I have looked at tens of thousands of diamonds in my lifetime, and I have never seen one AGS Ideal that I thought was ugly. I have seen some that I like more than others, but that again is a taste issue. I don''t think I have ever taken the time to decide what I thought was the worst possible combo and then looked for it, I have way better things to do.

Wink

 

[Maisie]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:22:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

So an AGS0 could also be a yuk? I thought that the AGS0 would always be a great stone to have? The price seems to imply this.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:40:39 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 7/18/2007 1:22:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

So an AGS0 could also be a yuk? I thought that the AGS0 would always be a great stone to have? The price seems to imply this.

Maise,

I reiterate, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE!

I suppose it is theoretically possible, but I have NEVER SEEN ONE!

Dang it Storm, See what you''ve done.

I have seen stones that would be AGS 4''s and 5''s that were still quite attractive, and who knows what the grade might be on some of the Old European cuts that are incredibly beautiful. (Now those I have seen many that were UGLY!, also many that are incredible!)

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN UGLY AGS O. Not saying that it could not happen, just saying that it would be incredibly unlikely. Please, can we PLEASE stop trying to scare people?

Maise, here is my personal pledge, and I imagine that John, Jonathon, James, Allen, and Fill in the blank with all the other trusted Pricescope dealers, will take it also. I pledge to look at all the stones I ever sell, and NOT to send them out if they are that possible one stone in however many kazillions that is AGS 0 and somehow manages to be UGLY. I wont even send it out if it is just unattractive. I wont even send it out unless it is beautiful.

Wink hot and cranky in Boise

Disclaimer, I have not seen every AGS 0 cut grade stone in the known universe, one could be hiding out there that I would think is UGLY, I just don''t expect that there is, but hey, I did not see them all, so there could be. I could win the lottery tomorrow, but since I have never bought a ticket, it is unlikely at about the same odds that there is an UGLY AGS 0 out there.

 

[michaelgem]

Michael,

The concept of a 'sweet spot' being in the center of a lab's top-range is for me contrary to the original article of Bruce Harding, where top-performers are always close to an area where performance suddenly drops.

Is there any proof that Mount Everest is at the center of the Himalaya-range?

Live long,
Paul Slegers

Paul,

Your interpretation of my use of the sweet spot concept is not what is intended. It is not what I have been explaining during the previous series of posts.

This is a good opportunity for clarification for you and others who may have gotten a similar wrong impression. Your thinking is so clever (and I mean that in a good way) that it needs to be addressed in three parts. I will start with the easiest one in this post.

That is the implication in your Everest analogy.

The sweet spot concept emphasizes that there is not one but many combinations of the seven parameters, all within a small range, that result in ideal light performance and beauty. Let me emphasize that both Morse and Tolkowsky had it right with respect to the important pavilion and crown main angles. Both determined best angle combinations that are near the centers of the range of the Ideal or Excellent sweet spots.

The sweet spot is not a point but an area that is graded as though its terrain is flat, because every combination within that area is given the same grade.

For the purists on this forum, (that is most of us), the performance within the respective sweet spots of GIA Excellent and AGS Ideal 0 is not perfectly flat, and neither is it necessarily monotonically increasing to peak at the center point.

We know it to be a somewhat bumpy terrain that does have somewhat of a ridge along what I have referred to as the “Axis of Ideal”. That inverse sloping ridge is important for us purists, as you can tell by Garry’s, my and others writing. However, as long as the cut parameters remain in the sweet spot, by its very definition, the typical observer in most lighting will not likely notice these subtle performance differences.

For the purists, there are trade offs within each systems sweet spot range. For example: Up to Morse’s combination of 41 and 35, I and others have demonstrated that the diamond tends to look brighter as the mains reflect from wider angles further away from head obstruction than does Tolkowsky's 40.75 and 34.5. So folks keying on overall brightness may correctly observe that this Morse combination is a better performer to the typical observer eyes in typical illumination than is the Tolkowsky 40.75, 34.5 or the 41, 34 sweet spot center.

So, the Morse combination or the Tolkowsky combination that for some is the Mt Everest in the analogy is not at the center of the Himalaya-range.

However, it you cut to the center of the sweet spot you are comfortably in the heart of Ideal land. Both the combinations of Morse and Tolkowsky are a little closer to one edge or another, but neither is in eminent danger of any precipitous fall off in terms of light performance.

In the article I note: The sweet spot center
of 41° and 34° is very
close to both the angles of Morse and
Tolkowsky. In proper combination with
the other five parameters, this sweet-spot
centre of 41° and 34° along with the angle
combinations of Morse and Tolkowsky all
have ideal optical performance and beauty.

Ideal regards,

Michael

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 2:08:38 PM
Author: Wink

Date: 7/18/2007 1:22:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

Storm,

Buddy, yes I sell the Infinity diamonds from Paul because I find them to be first among equals. (Go ahead John and Jonathon, feel free to chime in and disagree with me, we can have our own little ''war'' here.)

However, I have looked at tens of thousands of diamonds in my lifetime, and I have never seen one AGS Ideal that I thought was ugly. I have seen some that I like more than others, but that again is a taste issue. I don''t think I have ever taken the time to decide what I thought was the worst possible combo and then looked for it, I have way better things to do.

Wink

hey - if you guys are gonna fight, can it be in the hot tub?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:40:39 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 7/18/2007 1:22:50 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/18/2007 1:13:24 PM
Author: Wink
An AGS 0 will be a beautiful stone, it may come in several flavors, but it will be beautiful.

Wink

That''s real hard claim to prove without having seen em all.
Your seeing some of the best AGS0''s from Paul.
How many of the worst combo(which ever that is) none symmetrical ags0''s have you seen?

So an AGS0 could also be a yuk? I thought that the AGS0 would always be a great stone to have? The price seems to imply this.

Maisie, I bet there are more non-ags0 stones that are beautiful than ags0 stones that aren''t... and I bet some non-ags0 stones are MORE beautiful than some ags0 stones. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and supreme optimum light return isn''t the only factor for beauty.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 3:55:04 PM
Author: Wink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN UGLY AGS O. Not saying that it could not happen, just saying that it would be incredibly unlikely. Please, can we PLEASE stop trying to scare people?

I don''t think anyone is trying to scare anyone else, Wink. I think there is more than one strata of conversation here. I would say there are 3 distinct layers. The true novices, the hobbiests, and the professionals.

I understand discussing the minutia of all of this can make those who don''t know better "afraid" that they''re not getting the best because of this iota or that and I can understanding wanting to keep these people out of those conversations because of this. But there are others like storm and myself that do see these subtle differences for what they are and enjoy gnawing on them with the professionals both for the sake of gnawing itself and for the sake of learning more.

Since this is an open forum, all the levels get to come together and tussle. I don''t think it helps to keep the details out of it in the long run. Sure, you might spend more time educating people that the differences really don''t matter in the sense that one is better than another, but part of what we''re all doing here is educating people on what DOES matter and I think "flavors" matter and I think they matter to you as well. ::::breathe:::: Just keep distinguishing between performance and flavor.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/18/2007 10:38:50 AM
Author: echelon6

Date: 7/18/2007 10:19:43 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 7/17/2007 11:19:49 PM
Author: echelon6

A question for Paul and Garry (and everyone else):

I understand perfectly now (I think) why Paul said LGF% is meaningless by itself. This revelation actually got me curious: what then is the IDEAL LGF ANGLE? Its surprising since Paul states that LGF actually accounts for more surface area (undeniably true), yet consumers and vendors, even the smart ones here on PS, only assess MPF angles, without a mention of LGF angles. If MPF angles are ideally at 40.75, whats the ideal for LGF angles?

Thanks

And I misread the rest of the question.

The reason why the whole industry only mentions MPF''s, while they are a smaller part of the pavilion-surface, is historical. These angles are easier to measure, both with the old hand-tools of the beginning of the 20th century, as with shadow-measurement-tools like Sarin and OGI of the end of the 20th century.

Here is an analogy:

It is the start of the mussel-season in Belgium, I mean mussels from Zealand (Belgians are the world''s biggest consumers of both Zealand-mussels as French champagne). Mussels are sold per kilogram, and this weight is including the shells. Now, this year, because of weather conditions, each shell contains a lot more meat. Now, I have the problem that I cannot eat a full kilogram of mussels anymore, while I am still gaining weight. How can that be?

Live long,

You know sometimes with you and Garry, its harder to understand the analogies than the underlying concept

Oh No - we were there a month to early Paul. Drena willl cry too when she reads this!!!!!!!!!!!

Measuring the LGF (hard) tells you less about the diamond. When Tolkowsky and others did their work the LGF were very small part of what you can see in a diamoond.
For the usual range of LGF lengths the part of the diamond that you actually see inside the table from face up (or any direction) has less area than the Mains and the actuall bright parts that usually mostly catch your attention are the mains.

Ech the LFG is tied to the main angle which in a symmetrical stone has a compass pointing of 360 / 8.The compass pointing may not = exactly 16th''s (painted and dug stones have off azimuths)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/18/2007 11:16:32 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Michael,

On a totally different point.

The concept of a ''sweet spot'' being in the center of a lab''s top-range is for me contrary to the original article of Bruce Harding, where top-performers are always close to an area where performance suddenly drops.

Is there any proof that Mount Everest is at the center of the Himalaya-range?

Live long,

Precisely the question (never answered) that I asked michael here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/41-degree-pavillion-angle.65301/page-4 about 1/3rd of the way down the concurrent 41 degree pavilion thread.

GIA''s research indicates that optimum light return is not in the center of the isobars (what are the height thingy''s on graphs?)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/18/2007 12:11:02 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 3:15:32 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
the wine analogies always interest me John

Actually there is no way to answer which is ''ideal'' if you believe as a few of us do that ideal is a silly concept.

Ideal for who?
The ideal shiraz for me is too fruity and sweet for my best friend who prefers wines grown on cooler limestony soils that make me go uurgh!

Ideal is a bad term for diamonds too, but AGS have married themselves to it by using it for Princess cuts. An ideal princess cut is a poor mans ideal round.

So the ideal LG facet length or depth is an oxymoron for me because i know now for sure that there is a play off between fire and light return. Ideal for my wife is probably not ideal for my daughter.

That was why I inventd the term Firey Ideal Cut (FIC) and Brilliant Ideal Cut (BIC) but I am open to ideas for the better names for those

And I am much more of this thought as well Garry, though I am looking forward to a time when the flavors can be broken down further than just those two and I don''t know *how* but I really do feel that lgf personality times can and should be one type of further definition (as large vs small tables perhaps as well but I''ve digressed...)

I find ''pinacle worship'' to be interesting both in terms of finding the pinacle of pinacles as well as seeing how some people are really drawn to whatever pinacle is highest even if that difference is in the nanos. I am much more a believer in the multiple pinacle theory and those 10k image ASET charts back that up.

ahmen

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/18/2007 1:16:59 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 12:45:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/18/2007 12:23:56 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

I love their analogies! Esp John LOL Only the girls appreciated my big butt analogy!! LOL

I chuckled but kept silent after Wink started talking about going shopping with the guys. While Wink is pants shopping and I''m saying creepy hot tub stuff, Paul is eating mussels & dreaming about Garry... Meanwhile Garry is being the tame one! (?) Who would have guessed it?

this is VERY true LOL omg I could go off in so many directions here... but.... I.... will.... refrain....

do i win some brownie points, or get penalized for poor quality entertainment?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:08:22 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/18/2007 1:16:59 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 12:45:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/18/2007 12:23:56 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

I love their analogies! Esp John LOL Only the girls appreciated my big butt analogy!! LOL

I chuckled but kept silent after Wink started talking about going shopping with the guys. While Wink is pants shopping and I''m saying creepy hot tub stuff, Paul is eating mussels & dreaming about Garry... Meanwhile Garry is being the tame one! (?) Who would have guessed it?

this is VERY true LOL omg I could go off in so many directions here... but.... I.... will.... refrain....

do i win some brownie points, or get penalized for poor quality entertainment?

depends on what you''re wearing in the hot tub I suppose.... ::whistles::

 

[Maisie]

Date: 7/18/2007 4:47:46 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 3:55:04 PM
Author: Wink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN UGLY AGS O. Not saying that it could not happen, just saying that it would be incredibly unlikely. Please, can we PLEASE stop trying to scare people?

I don''t think anyone is trying to scare anyone else, Wink. I think there is more than one strata of conversation here. I would say there are 3 distinct layers. The true novices, the hobbiests, and the professionals.

I understand discussing the minutia of all of this can make those who don''t know better ''afraid'' that they''re not getting the best because of this iota or that and I can understanding wanting to keep these people out of those conversations because of this. But there are others like storm and myself that do see these subtle differences for what they are and enjoy gnawing on them with the professionals both for the sake of gnawing itself and for the sake of learning more.

Since this is an open forum, all the levels get to come together and tussle. I don''t think it helps to keep the details out of it in the long run. Sure, you might spend more time educating people that the differences really don''t matter in the sense that one is better than another, but part of what we''re all doing here is educating people on what DOES matter and I think ''flavors'' matter and I think they matter to you as well. ::::breathe:::: Just keep distinguishing between performance and flavor.

I shall stay out of this then - I think I am one of the ''don''t know better'' crew......

But thats ok - I am still wonderful in so many other ways

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:29:46 PM
Author: Maisie

I shall stay out of this then - I think I am one of the ''don''t know better'' crew......

But thats ok - I am still wonderful in so many other ways

Please don''t believe that for a second. I truly meant what I said, I do not believe that there is an ugly AGS 0 hiding out there. I truly do not people scared into believing something that I do not believe in. Each AGS 0 diamond has to perform in the lab, and they are not giving out 0''s to diamonds that do not perform.

I think you are more likely to get a good clear in focus picture of bigfoot in the wild than you are to find an ugly AGS 0.

That''s my story and I am sticking to it.

Wink

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:26:32 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:08:22 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/18/2007 1:16:59 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 12:45:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

I chuckled but kept silent after Wink started talking about going shopping with the guys. While Wink is pants shopping and I'm saying creepy hot tub stuff, Paul is eating mussels & dreaming about Garry... Meanwhile Garry is being the tame one! (?) Who would have guessed it?

this is VERY true LOL omg I could go off in so many directions here... but.... I.... will.... refrain....

do i win some brownie points, or get penalized for poor quality entertainment?

depends on what you're wearing in the hot tub I suppose.... ::whistles::

Family show Cehra...family show (are speedos still fashionable in Oz?

).


Garry - maybe just leave it be? It makes this thread like an alternate universe.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:29:46 PM
Author: Maisie

Date: 7/18/2007 4:47:46 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 3:55:04 PM
Author: Wink

I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN UGLY AGS O. Not saying that it could not happen, just saying that it would be incredibly unlikely. Please, can we PLEASE stop trying to scare people?

I don''t think anyone is trying to scare anyone else, Wink. I think there is more than one strata of conversation here. I would say there are 3 distinct layers. The true novices, the hobbiests, and the professionals.

I understand discussing the minutia of all of this can make those who don''t know better ''afraid'' that they''re not getting the best because of this iota or that and I can understanding wanting to keep these people out of those conversations because of this. But there are others like storm and myself that do see these subtle differences for what they are and enjoy gnawing on them with the professionals both for the sake of gnawing itself and for the sake of learning more.

Since this is an open forum, all the levels get to come together and tussle. I don''t think it helps to keep the details out of it in the long run. Sure, you might spend more time educating people that the differences really don''t matter in the sense that one is better than another, but part of what we''re all doing here is educating people on what DOES matter and I think ''flavors'' matter and I think they matter to you as well. ::::breathe:::: Just keep distinguishing between performance and flavor.

I shall stay out of this then - I think I am one of the ''don''t know better'' crew......

But thats ok - I am still wonderful in so many other ways

don''t stay out of it silly woman!!! Its kinda like this:

a meatloaf with a 1 1/2 tsp of thyme and 1/2 tsp of oregano will be just as good as a meatloaf with a 1/2 tsp thyme and 1 1/2 tsp oregano. But to the trained palate they will be able to tell the difference between the two and might even argue over which is best (with some saying the sweet spot is 1 tsp of each lol) but both meatloaves are yummy and awesome and some people wouldn''t even tell the difference. And some would start breaking it up into quarter teaspoons or saying no no no its not about the balance between thyme and oregano, it''s about the basil!! And then you have 3 components to the recipe (formula). As long as you''re not putting a pound of herb with 1/2 pound of meat, you should be okay... you know, as long as you have some flavoring to your meat, the actual amounts are debatable. And debate is just what some like to do here. Its just important to know when the debate is over how many teaspoons of flavor you''re adding (and sometimes too much flavor isn''t good!) vs how fresh the meat is or something truly important.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:36:56 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/18/2007 5:26:32 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:08:22 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 7/18/2007 1:16:59 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 12:45:41 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

I chuckled but kept silent after Wink started talking about going shopping with the guys. While Wink is pants shopping and I''m saying creepy hot tub stuff, Paul is eating mussels & dreaming about Garry... Meanwhile Garry is being the tame one! (?) Who would have guessed it?

this is VERY true LOL omg I could go off in so many directions here... but.... I.... will.... refrain....

do i win some brownie points, or get penalized for poor quality entertainment?

depends on what you''re wearing in the hot tub I suppose.... ::whistles::

Family show Cehra...Family show (are speedos still fashionable in Oz?

).


Garry - maybe just leave it be? It makes this thread like an alternate universe.

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:38:17 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

don't stay out of it silly woman!!! Its kinda like this:

a meatloaf with a 1 1/2 tsp of thyme and 1/2 tsp of oregano will be just as good as a meatloaf with a 1/2 tsp thyme and 1 1/2 tsp oregano. But to the trained palate they will be able to tell the difference between the two and might even argue over which is best (with some saying the sweet spot is 1 tsp of each lol) but both meatloaves are yummy and awesome and some people wouldn't even tell the difference. And some would start breaking it up into quarter teaspoons or saying no no no its not about the balance between thyme and oregano, it's about the basil!! And then you have 3 components to the recipe (formula). As long as you're not putting a pound of herb with 1/2 pound of meat, you should be okay... you know, as long as you have some flavoring to your meat, the actual amounts are debatable. And debate is just what some like to do here. Its just important to know when the debate is over how many teaspoons of flavor you're adding (and sometimes too much flavor isn't good!) vs how fresh the meat is or something truly important.

And some people are going to pour catsup all over 'em anyway! Ever seen a grown chef cry?

Masie, stay with us.

Just keep it reeeal.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:42:39 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

And some people are going to pour catsup all over ''em anyway! Ever seen a grown chef cry?

Masie, stay with us.

Just keep it reeeal.

John, I think our shared love of analogies is part of our bond LOL

anyone besides me suddenly hoping for meatloaf for dinner? LOL

 

[belle]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:40:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

lmao....

where is he now? where is the cow?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:46:13 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:40:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

lmao....

where is he now? where is the cow?

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

 

[belle]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:49:01 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:46:13 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:40:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

lmao....

where is he now? where is the cow?

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

*gasp* better than trevor??

 

[Maisie]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:42:39 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/18/2007 5:38:17 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

don't stay out of it silly woman!!! Its kinda like this:

a meatloaf with a 1 1/2 tsp of thyme and 1/2 tsp of oregano will be just as good as a meatloaf with a 1/2 tsp thyme and 1 1/2 tsp oregano. But to the trained palate they will be able to tell the difference between the two and might even argue over which is best (with some saying the sweet spot is 1 tsp of each lol) but both meatloaves are yummy and awesome and some people wouldn't even tell the difference. And some would start breaking it up into quarter teaspoons or saying no no no its not about the balance between thyme and oregano, it's about the basil!! And then you have 3 components to the recipe (formula). As long as you're not putting a pound of herb with 1/2 pound of meat, you should be okay... you know, as long as you have some flavoring to your meat, the actual amounts are debatable. And debate is just what some like to do here. Its just important to know when the debate is over how many teaspoons of flavor you're adding (and sometimes too much flavor isn't good!) vs how fresh the meat is or something truly important.

And some people are going to pour catsup all over 'em anyway! Ever seen a grown chef cry?

Masie, stay with us.

Just keep it reeeal.

No thanks love! I shall just stick with trusting the experts to choose for me. I am not technically minded but thats ok. I don't really mind that I don't understand the in's and out's of a diamond. I'm an expert at wearing one - thats all that matters to me!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:49:01 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

I find disappearing a cow much chunkier than a splintery magical toe (but can't speak for others). The toe looks best in daylight, but chinchillas are nocturnal. Anyway, I think 75 or 80 would look equally good on the bean aisle.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:52:10 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:49:01 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:46:13 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:40:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

lmao....

where is he now? where is the cow?

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

*gasp* better than trevor??

YES! once upon a time....

 

[belle]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:54:41 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:52:10 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:49:01 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/18/2007 5:46:13 PM
Author: belle

Date: 7/18/2007 5:40:39 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

you know what the cow saw in the parallel universe? Lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans, lots of beans.

lmao....

where is he now? where is the cow?

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

*gasp* better than trevor??

YES! once upon a time....

....better than a llama?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/18/2007 5:54:39 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/18/2007 5:49:01 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

that reigned supreme here until we found the mango one in my avatar - omg my kids were just singing that today - not a day goes by without a mango reference LOL Oh, except they DO talk about a magical toe, starting to glow LOL

I find disappearing a cow much chunkier than a splintery magical toe (but can''t speak for others). The toe looks best in daylight, but chinchillas are nocturnal. Anyway, I think 75 or 80 would look equally good on the bean aisle.

but you know me john, on the edge... over in aisle 65

btw the cinchilla reference directly implicates you in a deep perusal of that site... have you seen animator vs animation 2?