LOVELY TYPE I/!! Bubble Gum PInk Star - share thoughts

[CPGems]

my equipment reports the following for accuracy sake:
RP/PR(29) 3/4 -Light , Moderately Strong, Red-Purple or Purple-Red Corundum
No Enhancements at all

This beauty is 3.37 carats in weight, and measures 10.12mm x 7.95mm x 4.10mm

I need your help and opinions on this Beauty related to grade, and estimated value dealer to dealer and or retail

All Comments Welcome

 

[The sun is shining]

Can't comment on value, but it sure is pretty!

 

[distracts]

No idea of value, but I love the color!

 

[Edward Bristol]

Sorry, looks synthetic to me.

 

[CPGems]

Spectroscopy, gravity, etc disagrees with you

this is a genuine stone

 

[CPGems]

PLease observe the 2nd photo, where you can see on natural to the right side which was nhot resolved on polishing if that lends you any comfort as to its RARE status

 

[Roger Dery]

CPGems,
If you are a member of the gem or jewelry trade you need to declare it so.

And, as a fyi.... when referring to coloured gemstones, when one states: "Type I" one is referring to a gem's clarity. Corundum is a Type II gem type.

But then, you may be an expert on gems that exhibit asterism and would have a different understanding of what Type one or Type two denotes, yes?

 

[CPGems]

Re: LOVELY TYPE I/II Bubble Gum PInk Star - share thoughts

This is one Magnificent item we have held with other inventories for over 20 years in our safe.

Type II or III describes inclusions and/or occlusions which are visible. I did the type I/II as a tease

There is no "Perfect Natural" yet if there was then a Type II designation would be an insult to it.

the VAST majority of what you see mined, cut and polished qualifies no higher than TYPE III with those noted for their superior quality as being a TYPE II

Asterism is a naturally occuring phenomena which often times is destroyed or degraded as onw would heat a ruby. This particular stone is Unheated.

Although rutile is an extremely common inclusion in sapphire, "Few good, natural, star sapphires are found." One of the major reasons is that the heating which is almost universally done to sapphire rough, dissolves rutile needles, clarifying and sometimes color enhancing the stone, yes, but eliminating potential stars!

We expect stubby or weaker starts in those few natural star sapphires, Yet an even smaller percentage may have more present and prominent stars.

Synthetic star corundum has been produced for many decades in a process whereby a high concentration of very short rutile fibers are added to the crucible as the raw materials are melted, and the resulting crystals are cooled in a very controlled manner. Such "Linde" sytle stars look extremely uniform and bright--->they almost seem painted on the surface rather than to emanate from within the stone. In more recent years, diffusion processes have been developed by which natural gemstones (almost always corundum) can be star enhanced. In contrast to unenhanced, natural star gems these diffused pieces, like the synthetic ones, have stars which are stronger, straighter and appear less mobile, and are more confined to the surface.

a)The rays to natures' advantage on this gemstone are not perfectly parallel and straight
b)The Asterism eminates from within the stone and is completely mobile with the star equally visible in all aspects of the dome.
(such is not possible by any means that i know of, especially from the timeframe of this gemstones' origin)


Sorry to ask in such an arena - but having been closed off to the industry the last 20 years has left me without the active valuation expertise one might expect of me or any other gemologist. Such being the case, being aware, yet not fully adept especially with all that has transpired in the industry - I wont review my inventories alone.

This stone has been through full observation and examination by GIA certified gemologists in the past and deemed as natural prior to cutting.

Seems the world of today demand a pedigree even to share and or discuss - Sad to see what the world has come to in that manner.

I will bring this Very rare, and Very special gem to GIA here in NYC for a full and proper Dossier which is what i probably should have done in the first place.

I was merely hoping to share this magnificent natural with others in a gentler manner.

 

[CPGems]

with the sincerest of apologies for not ending last post in this manner:


Thank you for your presence, the existance of this forum, and the kind comments and concerns regarding this first post.

I honestly and deeply do appreciate the time each of you have taken on this matter, which is most precious to me in this less friendly world I awoke to after my years confined to a bed outside of my profession.

Bless You, and all you seek

 

[Roger Dery]

Re: LOVELY TYPE I/II Bubble Gum PInk Star - share thoughts

This is one Magnificent item we have held with other inventories for over 20 years in our safe.
-so then it is true, you are a vendor of gemstones?

Type II or III describes inclusions and/or occlusions which are visible. I did the type I/II as a tease
-why would you perform a tease? If you were expecting serious answers, you too must be serious.
-and, Type II or III does not describe inclusions. It is designed to create a set of categories for each gem species to be placed in. As in Aquamarine is categorized as a Type I, Corundum is categorized as a Type II, and red Tourmaline is categorized as a Type III gemstone.

There is no "Perfect Natural" yet if there was then a Type II designation would be an insult to it.

the VAST majority of what you see mined, cut and polished qualifies no higher than TYPE III with those noted for their superior quality as being a TYPE II

Asterism is a naturally occuring phenomena which often times is destroyed or degraded as onw would heat a ruby. This particular stone is Unheated.

Although rutile is an extremely common inclusion in sapphire, "Few good, natural, star sapphires are found." One of the major reasons is that the heating which is almost universally done to sapphire rough, dissolves rutile needles, clarifying and sometimes color enhancing the stone, yes, but eliminating potential stars!

We expect stubby or weaker starts in those few natural star sapphires, Yet an even smaller percentage may have more present and prominent stars.

Synthetic star corundum has been produced for many decades in a process whereby a high concentration of very short rutile fibers are added to the crucible as the raw materials are melted, and the resulting crystals are cooled in a very controlled manner. Such "Linde" sytle stars look extremely uniform and bright--->they almost seem painted on the surface rather than to emanate from within the stone. In more recent years, diffusion processes have been developed by which natural gemstones (almost always corundum) can be star enhanced. In contrast to unenhanced, natural star gems these diffused pieces, like the synthetic ones, have stars which are stronger, straighter and appear less mobile, and are more confined to the surface.

a)The rays to natures' advantage on this gemstone are not perfectly parallel and straight
b)The Asterism eminates from within the stone and is completely mobile with the star equally visible in all aspects of the dome.
(such is not possible by any means that i know of, especially from the timeframe of this gemstones' origin)

Sorry to ask in such an arena - but having been closed off to the industry the last 20 years has left me without the active valuation expertise one might expect of me or any other gemologist. Such being the case, being aware, yet not fully adept especially with all that has transpired in the industry - I wont review my inventories alone.
-it is possible this venue is not the correct arena for what you are asking.

This stone has been through full observation and examination by GIA certified gemologists in the past and deemed as natural prior to cutting.
-it is common knowledge that the GIA does not, nor have they ever certified a gemologist. You may be thinking of a different organization?

Seems the world of today demand a pedigree even to share and or discuss - Sad to see what the world has come to in that manner.
-the reason your statement is true is due to sellers misrepresenting what they are offering.

I will bring this Very rare, and Very special gem to GIA here in NYC for a full and proper Dossier which is what i probably should have done in the first place.
-this is correct, and we would all be interested in the result, I am sure.

I was merely hoping to share this magnificent natural with others in a gentler manner.

 

[CPGems]

I was in the business, yes

I am now older and a recovered quadrapedgic thenks to variant stem cells and some nano tech

my mind is less than it was, but my loves and appreciations remain intact

Forgive me for being socially awkward - been a long road

I refereed to type as one would for clarity and inclusing not by familial categorization - I presumed all knew type (category)
type(clarity) is a seperate matter

 

[CPGems]

What Present day VALUE might we be looking at?
(presuming Natural, unheated, non modified) as shown and described

 

[minousbijoux]

There is another forum online that has "gemology" in the title and is geared towards professionals, Roger Dery, being a highly esteemed member of that forum as well. By doing a search of online gemology forums, you should have no problem finding the group that I refer to.

That said, I agree with everything Roger has said...it is not customary, nor are we used to, speaking of the Type I, II and III in terms of the individual stone's level of inclusions, but of the stone type's general clarity level. In this regard, corundum is Type II.

The one other thing many of look for and value in star sapphires is translucency of the stone. The ones of highest value will have both the strong asterism and the clarity for one to almost see through the stone.

Good luck with finding the value.

 

[JaneSmith]

I was in the business, yes

I am now older and a recovered quadrapedgic thenks to variant stem cells and some nano tech

my mind is less than it was, but my loves and appreciations remain intact

Forgive me for being socially awkward - been a long road

I refereed to type as one would for clarity and inclusing not by familial categorization - I presumed all knew type (category)
type(clarity) is a seperate matter

I don't think so.

 

[Euphony]

I have a question regarding the assertion that the GIA does not certify gemologists, because I really thought they did. Most of the gem dealers I know have certs from them. Does it not mean what I think it means?

Link to what I am refering to: http://www.gia.edu/gem-education/program-graduate-graduate-gemologist

Very pretty stone. I can see why people are suspicious of it being synthetic because it looks alarmingly perfect, but nature sometimes produces amazing things.

 

[athenaworth]

I have a question regarding the assertion that the GIA does not certify gemologists, because I really thought they did. Most of the gem dealers I know have certs from them. Does it not mean what I think it means?

Link to what I am refering to: http://www.gia.edu/gem-education/program-graduate-graduate-gemologist

Very pretty stone. I can see why people are suspicious of it being synthetic because it looks alarmingly perfect, but nature sometimes produces amazing things.

They do certify gemologists - I'm smack dab in the middle of trying to get my graduate gemologist degree.

 

[Roger Dery]

I have a question regarding the assertion that the GIA does not certify gemologists, because I really thought they did. Most of the gem dealers I know have certs from them. Does it not mean what I think it means?

Link to what I am refering to: http://www.gia.edu/gem-education/program-graduate-graduate-gemologist

Very pretty stone. I can see why people are suspicious of it being synthetic because it looks alarmingly perfect, but nature sometimes produces amazing things.

Euphony, I am sorry to report that after a scrutinizing review of the GIA website, it is still true - that they do not certify diamonds, gemstones or gemologists. So, nothing has changed.

They do, however, deliver grading reports, laboratory reports, and complete training for graduate gemologists.

You may be thinking of another organization that uses the term "certify".

 

[chrono]

CPGems,
It sounds as though you are planning to sell this sapphire and the garnet for profit, hence you fall into the Trade category on PS which requires that you contact the moderators to change your status. With regards to value, nobody can tell you what it is worth, especially not knowing the exact colouration, which differs from monitor to monitor, changes with lighting, camera, and etc. What I can say though is that it looks opaque, which dings its value compared to a translucent sapphire. The colour, from what I can tell, looks very hot and saturated. As for treatment, how do you know that it is untreated? There are diffusion treated star sapphires which increases the effect of the star.

GIA does not certify anything. I agree with Roger that GIA issues lab reports and offers gemmological training. Perhaps it is a matter of semantics but GIA takes the wording seriously.

 

[Richard M.]

You may be thinking of another organization that uses the term "certify".

That would be the American Gem Society which does confer the title "certified gemologist" http://www.americangemsociety.org/credentials

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Euphony]

Euphony, I am sorry to report that after a scrutinizing review of the GIA website, it is still true - that they do not certify diamonds, gemstones or gemologists. So, nothing has changed.

They do, however, deliver grading reports, laboratory reports, and complete training for graduate gemologists.

You may be thinking of another organization that uses the term "certify".

Oh, don't be sorry! That is why I was asking. There was no snarkiness intended whatsoever, but rather it was a very honest question. I am a bench jeweler, so my knowledge of gemstones does not extend pass what can be steamed and ultrasonic-ed. It is simply that I have seen diplomas from the GIA hanging on walls at many of the vendors I frequent.

I was actually curious, because I am currently thinking of going through the training to become an appraiser and was looking into gemology programs. I had thought the GIA was an option, but if it is not it is better to find out sooner rather than later.

ETA: Wait, I think I just figured out what you are saying... The GIA offers the courses, but the AGS is the organization that certifies. Is that correct? Feeling a little slow on the uptake.

 

[Roger Dery]

Euphony, I am sorry to report that after a scrutinizing review of the GIA website, it is still true - that they do not certify diamonds, gemstones or gemologists. So, nothing has changed.

They do, however, deliver grading reports, laboratory reports, and complete training for graduate gemologists.

You may be thinking of another organization that uses the term "certify".

Oh, don't be sorry! That is why I was asking. There was no snarkiness intended whatsoever, but rather it was a very honest question. I am a bench jeweler, so my knowledge of gemstones does not extend pass what can be steamed and ultrasonic-ed. It is simply that I have seen diplomas from the GIA hanging on walls at many of the vendors I frequent.

I was actually curious, because I am currently thinking of going through the training to become an appraiser and was looking into gemology programs. I had thought the GIA was an option, but if it is not it is better to find out sooner rather than later.

ETA: Wait, I think I just figured out what you are saying... The GIA offers the courses, but the AGS is the organization that certifies. Is that correct? Feeling a little slow on the uptake.

Hi, as for training to become a gemologist, go to GIA. You won't regret it. In addition to the education, the relationships developed along the way will be invaluable in the long term.

Then, once completed, you can then add in the appropriate training in the appraiser field. Learning about values comes from other organizations such as ISA (International Society of Appraisers), ASA (American Society of Appraisers), NAJA (National Association of Jewelry Appraisers, and probably others as well.

American Gem Society (AGS) uses the phrase "Certified Gemologist". But even if you receive a lab report from them, it will state it is their "opinion" based on the data, etc. In general, labs prefer to not use the word "Certify" as it has a specific meaning in commercial trade. And, like most of us, we don't want our feet held to the fire because things can change over time.

Example: I once had a report rendered by AGL back when Cap Beesley was AGL. We were requesting a report on a 10ct+ blue Sapphire. We were asking for ID, Country of Origin, Enhancement Determination, the works. The report cost me just under $1,000. It was determined Natural, untreated, and from Sri Lanka.

Fast forward about 10 years, and I see the stone again. We send back in to AGL, and due to the timeline, and change in computer systems, change in ownership, I was not able to 'tack-on' the job as if it was being re-done for a reduced fee.

In the end, we find out that it had been subjected to a low-temperature heating process that was not detectable 10 years earlier. So, you can understand why the labs adjust their language to protect themselves. As we in the trade must as well.

 

[guilhermeesq]

i think that is worth 100 $ a carat or less.

It is way too opaque

the color is too boring

this is my opinion and i do not mean to disrespect you or the stone