"Love is never a fair proposition."

[TravelingGal]

I read this the other day...states that in a relationship, love is never equal. Someone ALWAYS loves more.

Do you agree with this? And if so...in your relationship (past or present), if you were to really take a hard look, who loves whom more?

 

[Mara]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:16:49 PM
Author:TravelingGal

I read this the other day...states that in a relationship, love is never equal. Someone ALWAYS loves more.

Do you agree with this? And if so...in your relationship (past or present), if you were to really take a hard look, who loves whom more?

I pretty much agree. I think that at any given point in time in a relationship, one person typically loves the other more. It's kind of like push and pull, wax and wane. It's up and down. I think I read something as well to that effect, that it's never equal. Doesn't mean that one person ALWAYS loves the other more, it's more like 'you can't have both loving each other equally as intensely at the same time'. Which is interesting. If I look back through my relationship with Greg...I think I can see the rises and dips.

Though I have had other relationships where it was unequal, obviously and it never changed. My last relationship before Greg, the guy definitely loved me way more. I never really even loved him, though I didn't know it then. Also, in other relationships, I think I was the one who had the luv thang going on whereas the guy might not have been 'as' into it.

But with us now, it's more like we both do it. So maybe that's a good thing! It keeps things fresh.

 

[decodelighted]

Hey TG ... interesting question. I know I''ve read & heard "advice for women" along the lines of "make sure you marry someone who loves you MORE than you love him" ... advice HOTLY debated among feminists & romantics & anyone with an opinion I''m sure!

Personally ... I''d guess than in most long-term successful relationships the degree of love/ balance of love swings back & forth over time like a pendulum.

One quote I heard went something like this "We never fell OUT of love with each other at the SAME time".

 

[KimberlyH]

My mom believes this to be true. She says she loves my dad more than he loves her. I think she believes this because he has always been the decision maker/dominant party in their relationship. I think she also believes this because she has to rely on him more than he does her financially (she hasn''t worked full time since they were married and couldn''t support herself and live comfortably if she had to).

I don''t know if I''d go so far as to say I believe that in my relationship one of us loves the other more, we just love each other differently. I''ve faced some adversities that I wouldn''t wish on my worst enemy and for that reason I believe I am the less dependant of the two of us. But I adore him as much as he does me, we just show it in different ways and have different expectations, at times, of each other based on our life experiences. But both of us are willing to compromise and find middle ground that is comfortable for each of us and I think at the end of the day that is what I love most about us as a couple.

What about you, TG?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:23:39 PM
Author: decodelighted
Hey TG ... interesting question. I know I've read & heard 'advice for women' along the lines of 'make sure you marry someone who loves you MORE than you love him' ... advice HOTLY debated among feminists & romantics & anyone with an opinion I'm sure!

Personally ... I'd guess than in most long-term successful relationships the degree of love/ balance of love swings back & forth over time like a pendulum.

One quote I heard went something like this 'We never fell OUT of love with each other at the SAME time'.

I agree with both of you ladies. I see it as "ebb and flow." You've pretty much said the same thing in a different way.

I am not sure if I love him more, but I think often I SACRIFICE more!

I think he loved me more before, but I think I may eek him out now.

And about the "marry someone who loves you more" debate...err...do we really want to get into that one? Hehehehe...

ETA, just saw your post Kimberly H...I think I answered the question from my perspective. However, I wonder if "loving differently" can equate to more or less? And as far as "adoring" more, I think I adore more....to him personally. But he adores me more...he just doesn't always do it in front of me, if that makes sense. More like his friends can see how happy he is.

 

[Mara]

This reminds me of that song...

"Are you gonna stay with the one who loves you....or are you going back to the one you love?"

Of course the ideal scenario is you both love each other. I always thought I'd rather be with someone who adored me, than be with someone who I loved who didn't adore me...but I found that wasn't the case. I didn't want to settle.

 

[Girlrocks]

I can speak from my personal experience that yes, I agree that your love for someone goes up and down. There have been times in my 8 year marriage that I've thought, God, it can't get any better than this, and then a few months later, I WANT TO KILL HIM, literally!

I love the quote that some one else mentioned...it was a famous person, married for a long time, when asked what the secret to a long marriage was, the response was "we never fell out of love with one another at the same time". My parents are going to celebrate their 50th anniversary next September (they got married at 17 & 1 and I'm sure that there were times during their marriage when either of them was ready to throw in the towel, luckily, just not both at the same time. I think it's good that your love goes up and down...I think the person that is "up" at the time can carry the load while their partner is "down", and vice versa (does that make any sense??).

I think it's hard to measure love...who loves who more. It's all subjective, don't you think? Depends on how affectionate, expressive, etc. that each partner is.

Plus, love changes. My hubby and I have been through health issues with me, our children, months when we were living paycheck to paycheck. Our love is stronger now than at the beginning. We have a deeper, spiritual connection from having gone through serious problems and come out on the other side together. When our daughter's were born and we almost lost one of them, he was the only person in the world who knew exactly how I felt at that critical time. No one else. I love him more now for having gone through those things with him.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:35:55 PM
Author: Mara
This reminds me of that song...

''Are you gonna stay with the one who loves you....or are you going back to the one you love?''

Of course the ideal scenario is you both love each other. I always thought I''d rather be with someone who adored me, than be with someone who I loved who didn''t adore me...but I found that wasn''t the case. I didn''t want to settle.

Yeah...if you are with someone who adores you that you don''t adore, it feels smothering and annoying. I agree that we are all taking about good, healthy relationships where both love one another. It''s just that "little bit more" concept that I am interested in. And if you are the one who loves more...do you ever feel vulnerable? (although I think it would take loving someone a LOT more to feel that way)...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:39:16 PM
Author: Girlrocks
I can speak from my personal experience that yes, I agree that your love for someone goes up and down. There have been times in my 8 year marriage that I've thought, God, it can't get any better than this, and then a few months later, I WANT TO KILL HIM, literally!

I love the quote that some one else mentioned...it was a famous person, married for a long time, when asked what the secret to a long marriage was, the response was 'we never fell out of love with one another at the same time'. My parents are going to celebrate their 50th anniversary next September (they got married at 17 & 1 and I'm sure that there were times during their marriage when either of them was ready to throw in the towel, luckily, just not both at the same time. I think it's good that your love goes up and down...I think the person that is 'up' at the time can carry the load while their partner is 'down', and vice versa (does that make any sense??).

Congrats to your parents!!!

I like that quote too. But I think it applies to *feelings*. There are times where I am so "in love" with him, and other times I am not so much. What what about that deep, core love? I know it's hard to separate that from feeling in love, but I wonder at the root, if someone can actually love someone more....period...and if that is a healthy thing.

ETA edited to make it a exclamation mark on the end of "parents" instead of the question mark I originally typed. Lol...

 

[KimberlyH]

You absolutely answered my question, TG. Love is difficult to measure. He and I fulfill different needs for one another, which makes it hard to determine who loves who more, again it''s just different. I have a lot of qualities that are stereotypically attributed to males and he is my antithesis in that regard, it makes for a very interesting relationship. But I definitely would agree that there is an ebb and flow to it. My mom would state otherwise, she believes she always loves my dad more (which is really interesting because they have a fantastic relationship).

 

[Girlrocks]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:42:45 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 1/2/2007 4:39:16 PM
Author: Girlrocks
I can speak from my personal experience that yes, I agree that your love for someone goes up and down. There have been times in my 8 year marriage that I've thought, God, it can't get any better than this, and then a few months later, I WANT TO KILL HIM, literally!

I love the quote that some one else mentioned...it was a famous person, married for a long time, when asked what the secret to a long marriage was, the response was 'we never fell out of love with one another at the same time'. My parents are going to celebrate their 50th anniversary next September (they got married at 17 & 1 and I'm sure that there were times during their marriage when either of them was ready to throw in the towel, luckily, just not both at the same time. I think it's good that your love goes up and down...I think the person that is 'up' at the time can carry the load while their partner is 'down', and vice versa (does that make any sense??).

Congrats to your parents!!!

I like that quote too. But I think it applies to *feelings*. There are times where I am so 'in love' with him, and other times I am not so much. What what about that deep, core love? I know it's hard to separate that from feeling in love, but I wonder at the root, if someone can actually love someone more....period...and if that is a healthy thing.

ETA edited to make it a exclamation mark on the end of 'parents' instead of the question mark I originally typed. Lol...

haha...I think you should have left the question mark (you must know my parents, by the way!!)

 

[rainbowtrout]

The ebb and flow is totally true, I think, as a few people have said. I''m completely sympathetic to the "it can''t get any better" followed by the "I WANT TO KILL HIM" months.

On the other hand, what keeps you going through the rough patches is I think partly that deep knowledge that you do love them, even if you are annoyed with them. But it''s also just flat out grit your teeth *work* and committment...

One thing I always try to keep in mind that I read somewhere (probably a woman''s magazine?) was "try to give to where you feel like you are sacrificing/giving about 60 percent, and you''ll be hitting about even" So if both people try to give a little more than they think is equal, it should all be fine.

I don''t think I could deal with either scenario, honestly. It makes me nervous and unhappy when I think I love more, and restless/uncomfortable when they love me more. If I had to choose, though, I think I might rather be with someone who loved me more than I loved them?

 

[onedrop]

Wow I think this is a great question TG. I was really interested in reading all of the responses. As for me, I have definitely been in relationships where I loved more...or maybe I gave more. I am not sure if giving more equates to loving more. I certainly felt like those men that I gave so much with, that did not return the effort made me feel like they didn''t love me as much as I loved them. And yes TG to answer your question you DO feel vulnerable (at least I did).

That said, I do believe that at different points in relationships, one person will love more than the other. And in my current relationship, I think right now we are on pretty much the same level with the love, but the BF is more able to show it. I am so curious to see how things will changed after we are married.

 

[Miranda]

Well, I''m not sure if it "love" more necessarily, or "tolerate" more, or what it is, but, I do agree that someone usually gives more. Fortunately, in our relationship, it has gone back and forth. Meaning someone gets fed up and the other one holds it together. I''ve never felt like I have always loved him more and he feels the same. My mom does insist that she loves my dad more than he loves her, though. Interesting thread, TG!

 

[Hopes]

This is most definitely true. In my case I know I loved him way more than he loved me when I was really young, still in high school, and he was in college. He broke it off "for my own good" (his words at the time), and I spent two years heartbroken and always missing him and wanting him. I had other relationships during that time, but I always made it clear to them that the one I loved was this other guy (not very good for the relationships), plus various people I would talk to constantly about him. I was stalking him, trying to figure out the girls he was seeing, always trying to talk to him, but he never returned calls, e-mails or messages except a few times. It was a full on obsession, and not a too healthy one at that. It wasn't until -- and here's the ironic kicker part -- I started to get over him, that he started coming back to me.

I was pretty damned surprised, since I always figured that it was a lost case, that what we had was all an illusion, and that I should just move on. So right as I was moving on with a new guy, he started talking to me again, paying attention to me, going so far as to talk to me just about every night. I mean full on re-pursuit that caught me way off-guard. He told me all the stuff that sounded right, like how he missed me the entire time, too, but stayed away for my benefit (and maybe it was true, but we'll never know eh?). But I was still hurt, and so going back into the swing of things he had to do a lot more pampering, begging, listening to my complaints and trying to sooth the built-up pains from two years.

So shortly after that we got together officially, moved in together after about a year, in my freshman year in college. During the early course of our relationship I just wasn't all that into him. I felt like I always loved him way too much, and it wasn't good for me to keep loving him at that maximum level. At that point he was the one who wanted to marry me, but I was the one who wasn't ready, and wasn't even all that sure that he was the one. In fact at times I was looking for ways to get out of the relationship, so I'd say he loved me way more than I loved him during that time.

After knowing each other 8 years and living together for 5, things fell apart several times then got patched again. In this past year though, I came to several revelations, and so did he. We both wanted to be with each other for the rest of our lives. We both had to make certain sacrifices, but his were more difficult since his habits were rather damaging (alcohol particularly). Right now I think it is something like 40% on my part and 60% on his part. He tells me things like he doesn't feel like he's good enough for me (I used to feel that way when I was a schoolgirl!). But really I think he does make more of an effort than I do.

Thinking it over, I'm now scared that someday he'll love me less than I love him... maybe that's why every now and then I'll ask him if he still loves me, and accuse him of not loving me anymore, to which he always replies with "I love you more than anything in the world!" Yipes, don't let me become cynical about love again! ^^;;

 

[MINE!!]

I have to agree on this. Unfortunately, I am always loved more. I am always trusted, loved, revered and in the end I am always the one that hurts someone. I am such a horrible person

Not really, well kinda. I have only been in 1 relationship when I have loved more... and that ended up an abusive horrible relationship. Otherwise, men have always loved me and women who know me always ''like" me better than I do them. I think it is in all relationships, romatic or friendships.

I love rarely, cautiously, but openly. So people assume that I am a wonderful person and that I truely care deeply. Most of the time, I don''t. But those are my issues.

But when I do love, really love, I love completely and not just casually.

The only real time or relationship that I can say that I love more than the other person is with my children, they ave no clue what it really feels like to love something more than themselves, until they have children themselves.

Strange things, realtionships are.

 

[TravelingGal]

Hehehe, Girlrocks, that made me laugh. Don''t know your parents, but something tells me they have interesting stories to tell...

Date: 1/2/2007 5:12:21 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
One thing I always try to keep in mind that I read somewhere (probably a woman''s magazine?) was ''try to give to where you feel like you are sacrificing/giving about 60 percent, and you''ll be hitting about even'' So if both people try to give a little more than they think is equal, it should all be fine.

That''s interesting that you read something like that in a magazine article. When TGuy and I first became serious, he kept saying that relationships should be 50/50...equal and even. That concept kind of bothered me, and I told me it should be 100/100. That way on days you can''t give 100 percent, you would still be "overlapping" because if you are only targeting 50%, if both people have a crap day and you only give 30% each, you''re not even meeting halfway in the middle. While it may be idealistic, this concept has worked for us. Some days he only gives me 40%, but my 70% gets us to "meet".

I have loved more, and I definitely felt vulnerable, as well as frustrated. In the end, it did not work out because in a long distance relationship both people have to make an effort (and he did not). I think women need to know they are loved...a lot. Most men need to know that a bit less...but they need to feel respected a bit more than a woman does....men wig out when they feel disrespected.

Oooh...did I open up a can of worms with that one?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:16:49 PM
Author:TravelingGal

I read this the other day...states that in a relationship, love is never equal. Someone ALWAYS loves more.

Do you agree with this? And if so...in your relationship (past or present), if you were to really take a hard look, who loves whom more?

I think my husband loves me more... but I can only say that if I''m really frank because I want to believe I love him more. We love each other in different ways... we''ve known each other since we were 5 and 3 and we satisfy different things in each other. I think he works harder to make/keep me happy and I am grateful for that, but he''s not very intuitive. He''s a very hard worker, very down to earth - but not a lot of spark. I think I have enough spark for several people and I know that''s part of what he loves about me... I wish he had a bit more. He has the most when we''re alone or with the kids - he is like another person. Others, especially coworkers, are often surprised at how different he is. He''s one of the most compartmentalized people I know. He makes NO effort to form or keep friendships - I''m his best friend and all he believes he needs, besides the kids and his family. I on the other hand end up with the task of staying in touch with everyone... which is good in that I get to choose our friends, but I haven''t had as much time or inclination to work on that since we''ve had 3 kids and I''ve been at home... I wish he''d take some of it on himself but it isn''t really him... anyway I say that he loves me more because he''s created his life in such a way that I am his only friend, his best friend, his lover, his everything. (he wishes I was his housecleaner too but he can''t have it *all* right? haha) but in other ways I''m more dependent on him, and I do love him dearly and passionately and adoringly... but there are a lot of things I get from (or share with) others that he only gets from me.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 1/2/2007 4:40:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Yeah...if you are with someone who adores you that you don''t adore, it feels smothering and annoying. I agree that we are all taking about good, healthy relationships where both love one another. It''s just that ''little bit more'' concept that I am interested in. And if you are the one who loves more...do you ever feel vulnerable? (although I think it would take loving someone a LOT more to feel that way)...

I think my dh does feel vulnerable more than I do. He isn''t jealous - it isn''t anything like that... it''s just that he has so much riding on just me that if I were to die or something his whole world would collapse.... where as if he died my heart would collapse but I''d be able to love again. Ugh, I hate even thinking about this... hey he just got home so I''m gonna stop talking about this lol!

 

[strmrdr]

wifey2b and I fight about who loves who more all the time so we have something to make up about :}

 

[Eva17]

TG one of my favorite answers to the question, "what is the secret, how did your marriage make it all these years?"

The woman answers, "we never fell out of love with each other at the same time!"


This was a 90 year old women who had been married for a very long time. (on some news show)

 

[divergrrl]

Interesting! I would like to think that DH and I love each other equally, and I sure feel that way, but I am inclined to think that Mara''s statement about waxing/waning, push and pull makes a lot of sense over the long haul.

I''ve been with hubby almost 8 years and have never wanted to be without him. Pretty sure he feels the same about me.

Mara''s explanation had a yin/yang balance feel for me, and can see how the it would be ever changing over time.

Jeannine

 

[Hopes]

Date: 1/2/2007 8:27:44 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 1/2/2007 4:16:49 PM
Author:TravelingGal

I read this the other day...states that in a relationship, love is never equal. Someone ALWAYS loves more.

Do you agree with this? And if so...in your relationship (past or present), if you were to really take a hard look, who loves whom more?

I think my husband loves me more... but I can only say that if I'm really frank because I want to believe I love him more. We love each other in different ways... we've known each other since we were 5 and 3 and we satisfy different things in each other. I think he works harder to make/keep me happy and I am grateful for that, but he's not very intuitive. He's a very hard worker, very down to earth - but not a lot of spark. I think I have enough spark for several people and I know that's part of what he loves about me... I wish he had a bit more. He has the most when we're alone or with the kids - he is like another person. Others, especially coworkers, are often surprised at how different he is. He's one of the most compartmentalized people I know. He makes NO effort to form or keep friendships - I'm his best friend and all he believes he needs, besides the kids and his family. I on the other hand end up with the task of staying in touch with everyone... which is good in that I get to choose our friends, but I haven't had as much time or inclination to work on that since we've had 3 kids and I've been at home... I wish he'd take some of it on himself but it isn't really him... anyway I say that he loves me more because he's created his life in such a way that I am his only friend, his best friend, his lover, his everything. (he wishes I was his housecleaner too but he can't have it *all* right? haha) but in other ways I'm more dependent on him, and I do love him dearly and passionately and adoringly... but there are a lot of things I get from (or share with) others that he only gets from me.

Weird, that's how my guy and I are to each other. We are really the only people we really trust in each other's immediate lives. Our parents can't be counted on (his dad passed away when he was young, my dad divorced my mom long ago and we have no contact), no other relatives that are close, no true siblings, no best friends aside from each other.

I suppose I can see it as being rather unhealthy since I don't even have female friends that are close enough I can call on them to be bridesmaids at my wedding. We do pretty much everything together, and we have the same hobbies/beliefs, even work near each other so we go to work, eat lunch and come home together almost daily. That kind of co-dependency can really break down if something totally tragic happens to one of us, but I try not to think about that.

I think I've grown past the point where I'd be totally at a loss as to what to do if I was completely alone again, but I don't think I'd find someone else who gives me all of himself, quite like my guy does... guess I'm extremely spoiled in that way! I also don't think I could really give myself wholly to anyone else either, because I wouldn't find them deserving of that. Definitely agree with TravelingGal on this point: "I think women need to know they are loved...a lot."

 

[AmberWaves]

Well, when we first dated 10 years ago, he absolutely without a doubt loved me more. Then, we broke up. It took me years to find him after I realized what a great person he was, under all that suffocating he did.

So, after all that, 7 years later, I started loving HIM more. I think it''s evened out, sometimes he just makes me want to scream, but it''s different now, the fight/flight response is gone. Now it''s all about working on it and yeah, maybe just being mad for a second- if I feel like it. He understands me and the need to one up in love is gone.

I envy all of you with long married parents, my parents split up a couple of years ago, although they were never married to begin with. I remember distinctly one occasion they fought massively. Actual hand to hand fighting, and I was just so distraught, about 10 years old and asked my mom why she does this to me. What did she say? "I''m not the one who stopped loving." Nice. It really screwed with my head, and has affected the way I fight now. I''m still trying to realize when I''m being cruel, since I know nothing else.

 

[Hopes]

Oh, found a poem, that I think is interesting to read in light of this thread's theme. I used to think about the highlighted parts all the time when I was younger and so desperately in love with my now fiance. Funny how the tables have turned.

---

The More Loving One
W.H. Auden

Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell,
But on earth indifference is the least
We have to dread from man or beast.

How should we like it were stars to burn
With a passion for us we could not return?
If equal affection cannot be,
Let the more loving one be me.

Admirer as I think I am
Of stars that do not give a damn,
I cannot, now I see them, say
I missed one terribly all day.

Were all stars to disappear or die,
I should learn to look at an empty sky
And feel its total dark sublime,
Though this might take me a little time.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 1/3/2007 9:44:23 AM
Author: Hopes
Weird, that''s how my guy and I are to each other. We are really the only people we really trust in each other''s immediate lives. Our parents can''t be counted on (his dad passed away when he was young, my dad divorced my mom long ago and we have no contact), no other relatives that are close, no true siblings, no best friends aside from each other.

I suppose I can see it as being rather unhealthy since I don''t even have female friends that are close enough I can call on them to be bridesmaids at my wedding. We do pretty much everything together, and we have the same hobbies/beliefs, even work near each other so we go to work, eat lunch and come home together almost daily. That kind of co-dependency can really break down if something totally tragic happens to one of us, but I try not to think about that.

I think I''ve grown past the point where I''d be totally at a loss as to what to do if I was completely alone again, but I don''t think I''d find someone else who gives me all of himself, quite like my guy does... guess I''m extremely spoiled in that way! I also don''t think I could really give myself wholly to anyone else either, because I wouldn''t find them deserving of that. Definitely agree with TravelingGal on this point: ''I think women need to know they are loved...a lot.''

With us, I have friend and he has family. My mom died 7 years ago and so all I have are my dad and brother who is 14 and step mother - but while we''re on good terms, we don''t talk frequently... it''s like aunts and cousins or something... anyway I do have two best girlfriends - of course one lives 1000 miles away and the other 3000 miles away ::sob:: but we email and talk every day - TG for free long distance!! And I have several buddies here that we all consider each other ''friends'' but they can''t touch the 2 ''real'' friends I have. DH''s family - he has 2 sisters, a brother, his parents married for 38 years, 11 grandkids including our 3 and they''re all strangely close - fiercely loyal and spend their time together (we don''t, we live 20 hour drive away) but they don''t share a lot with each other - its weird... they all share with me ''cause people just tend to do that wtih me in person... but... well anyway, we have his family and my friends. I''m sure if anything happened to me he would run to them. His sister and I went to kindergarten together and have been friends for years - sometimes she introductes me as her friend and then introduces her brother as my husband LOL! I have a hard time imagining giving myself right now while I''m in love with my husband... but given the right situation I could see myself finding another man deserving.

In my dad''s marriage I don''t know if I''ve seen the love wax and wane but I have definitely seen the power wax and wane. IE who is in control more than the other.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

This is great. It makes me think of the very first "self help" book I ever laid eyes on, at the ripe old age of 13, in 1985. My mom had this book, and it was drawn with little cartoon characters to go along with the text, and the basic gist of it is that every relationship in your life is a dance, and that in a successful relationship people take turns being the "seeker" and the "sought." It, according to the book, is the only way to keep the balance being desired, desireable, and desiring...that it is no fun to be someone chronically chasing someone else, and it is no fun to be chronically chased. But if someone has grown used to being the sought after person in a relationship and then suddenly they sense that no one is chasing after them, it is scary, then intriguing....hmmm....maybe that person that they couldn''t shake is worth chasing after too?

Does this make sense? It has always resonated with me, adn has certainly rung true in my own 18 year long realtionship with my high school sweetheart DH.

I haven''t seen the cover since then, but I see that it is still in print here on Amazon! I''m not recommending the book, I''m just saying that it gave me a perspective on this issue that I have never ever forgotten, and that I have believed to be true since then.