(lots of) Sapphire e-ring questions

[polyglot]

I'm looking for a sapphire+white-metal engagement ring in the style of this Pt with oval+half-moons one or (less so) this Au with oval+rounds one, plus I've been doing a little looking around local ring manufacturers.

My main question concerns the grading and pricing of sapphires. I'm seeing massive pricing variation, presumably due to source and colour quality, but my problem is that the more expensive ones don't seem to have any certification whatsoever so I've no good way of evaluating them online. vvs1gem on eBay (found them via here) offer AIGS certs to prove no beryllium treating but there seems to be no documentation of inclusions... and their clarity ratings seem highly optimistic going by the photos in their listings.

I had a look at about 6 sapphires ordered in at the better local B&M; two were of poor (grey) colour, two were too pale for my tastes, one was fantastic (but $2350 for 1.35ct) and another was very nearly as good ($1120 for 0.94ct). Pretty similar size of course; the colour was better on the 1.35 but probably only side-by-side. I couldn't see any inclusions, but they're very deep, saturated stones and I don't have a jeweller's eyes, so really I have no idea of its true quality. I'd probably be happy with either of those but of course worry that I'm being gouged...

Are there techniques for evaluating sapphires, e.g. darkfield illumination to look for inclusions and IS/ASET for cut?

I note that the cut on all the ones I've seen so far have a stepped pavilion rather than long facets as seen on a brilliant-cut diamond. Does this mean that they're going to leak or transmit light in a totally different fashion to a diamond and not depend on total internal reflection on the pavilion facets to return light entering the crown out of the crown?

The B&M also showed me a pair of half-moon diamonds. 0.40 ct tw, G, VS1/SI1, uncertified for $1400-1600; they had massive tables - like 90%. Seems pretty pricey to me but then I haven't been able to find a pair of half-moons by searching pricescope, bluenile or the vendors usually recommended here. They said that they were the only pair of half-moons their dealer had in-stock. I'm tempted to buy a pair of pears off bluenile for 60% of the price, 50% more ct, higher gradings all-around and certs! Any opinions on that option and/or the pricing on half-moons I was offered?

Any and all advice gratefully received, more questions coming soon no doubt...

 

[chrono]

You have the right concept that there is pricing variability depending upon the colour quality, followed by other slightly lesser considerations like carat weight, clarity, treatment and etc. When it comes to coloured gemstones, eye clean from the table view is all that matters. No gem lab does any plotting of the type and location of inclusions, thus darkfield illumination is not done. Cut also does not matter as much as long as there are no major cutting issues like off symmetry, lopsided culet, zoning face up, extinction, windowing and etc, which is why no one does IS/ASET. Because colour is what sets the price, coloured gemstones are judged on colour first and foremost, with cut lagging far behind. Coloured gemstones are also cut differently than diamonds in order to maximize the richness and saturation of colour, with a balance of brilliancy and scintillation.

A smaller table on half moons are going to be far more attractive, give off a livelier firey flash, in addition to getting the correct crown/pavilion angle combination to avoid the dreaded light leakage. One would assume that a diamond with a 90% table is going to have light going straight through the stone and never return to the eye!

 

[winternight]

Well I think you could always have the ring appraised, but I do suppose that price could be a cost.

The natural sapphire company may be an option, but I don''t know if you want to purchase with the stone sight unseen. They also make custom rings.

I noticed that bluenile has filling as an acceptable treatment for sapphires, as well as heat treament.

http://au.bluenile.com/gemstone-jewelry/gemstone-enhancements?mod=enhancements

Heated to alter color and clarity. Infused to alter color and clarity.

 

[vinkalmann]

I'm know in the process of buying bands after already having gone through the e-ring process. My first advice is stay away from places like Blue Nile where you aren't selecting the stone yourself. Seriously, hunting down the special stone, while nerve-racking a bit, was A LOT of fun.

I'm looking for the bands at the natural sapphire company since I like what they do. There's mixed feeling about them on the board here, but whatever. I found a few links for you to check out. Mainly I wanted you to see what nicely colored sapphire look like opposed to those dead looking stones on Blue Nile. I don't know what it is exactly, but they give me the creeps.

These are completed rings, you can custom make pretty much anything there these are just for ideas:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Sapphire-Jewelry/Sapphire-Rings/Jewelry=J1363
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Sapphire-Jewelry/Sapphire-Rings/Jewelry=J2074
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Sapphire-Jewelry/Sapphire-Rings/Jewelry=J1435
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Sapphire-Jewelry/Sapphire-Rings/Jewelry=J1517

I love the color of the stone in the last link! Yum!

To some other readers, didn't another poster on this board get a ring very similar to the one he posted? I swear I just saw that somewhere?

PS Like was said, the stones at Blue Nile may be natural (meaning not man made) but it's assured that they've been monkeyed with to the color the have.

 

[velouriaL]

I like the setting, but I think it would look extra nice if Leon (artofplatinum.com) made it. I know his pave is all the rage, but I personally love his classic three stones with those amazing prongs, especially since it''s an engagement ring and is meant to be something really special. I don''t know what your budget is, but I''ve heard that many have been surprised at how competitive his rates can be with B&M prices.

Have you considered spinel? I know they''re not as well known as sapphires, but I think that the gorgeous cobalt ones look a bit nicer... They''re durable enough for an e-ring and, though not inexpensive, are probably a little bit less than a sapphire of comparable quality.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

My ering is from the natural sapphire company. I think their sapphire prices are a little high (if I had been picking it out I probably would have contacted a cutter like Jeff White or Barry Bridgestock) but...Livia was great for my DH to work with and she looked long and hard to give him great options in his somewhat limited budget. PLus he designed the setting (and their setting prices were pretty competetive). I didn''t know bout the ring until after the fact, btu NSC was great to my DH.

 

[polyglot]

thanks for your answers everyone!

I am definitely planning on having the B&M make the ring because I get to choose the stones. I don't like the ones pictured on BN (though the mount style I linked is what started all this sapphire-hunting off) but I suspect that's because they're computer renderings and not photographs: note the unnatural depth of field. I didn't realise they were that cavalier with "enhancements" either...

vinkalmann: I'm not a fan of TNSC's metalwork, it's just not the style I'm after and I'm not really interested in paying a premium for unheated.

velouriaL: you're right, those are awesome claws. Might have to see if I can get something like that made up! Must be sapphire not spinel sorry. Symbolism and all that.

Back to sapphires... any idea what's with the transparent appearance of this one at vvs1gem? It seems sort of like there is only a thin layer of colour in the stone and the rest is water-clear - are stones like that common or is it a matter of a bad photograph? Bad cut?

My current pondering is to choose one of these from vvs1gem: 2.17ct fairly-round, good colour, inclusion, 2.80ct nicely-oval, a bit pale, too large, 1.75 ct round, great colour and size but wrong shape, 2.59 ct, great colour, too large.

I think I like the 1.75 the most except for the fact that it's round. I could put it with two round diamonds of course, or a pair of pears either with points-outwards or arranged so that they look they're rotating around the centre stone. Is that a bit too "out there"?

edit: does anyone have any opinions on the reliability & honesty of israel-diamonds.com?

thanks in advance...

 

[SB621]

Hi there!

I just wanted to let you know that I just made my first purchase from vvs1gems today - i''m crossing my fingers the stone will be as nice in person. Sorry to thread jack! Your choices for sapphires are beautiful. I do like the 1.75 but to me bigger is always better. So your 2.0+ ct one was more attractive for my taste.

 

[Kismet]

Maybe it''s just the bright white background but they all look like they''ve been lit up quite a bit (meaning that they could be a lot darker in person). I''d ask for an outdoor/natural light shot of any stones you''re interested in buying.

The first sapphire you listed, it''s probably color zoning. If the color is in the right spot, it can reflect around the stone and make it look colored everywhere.

 

[vsol]

I would really recommend contacting custom gem cutters before you buy anything, at least for rough quotes. I worked with Dan Stair for the sapphire ering I''ll be giving to my gf saturday (hopefully), gave him the specs I was after, color choices, etc and he came back with what the prices might be (I tested him by not giving him my budget and he was right under it It was very affordable and I knew I''d get a quality cut. With any native cut or commercial cut stone the picture just cannot tell you what you''re going to get (for example, of all those links you sent in your second post, I bet they''re all so dark and opaque you would have a hard time seeing the color in real lighting conditions.. my experience is vendor photos are almost always lighter than real life, check the sticky post in this forum for vendor vs real life photos to get an idea).

Also for TNSC, not only have they admitted to photoshopping some images, I noticed they used the same photo for two different rings (I had been looking at one, it sold, another one posted at $50 cheaper but was the same photo!!)

 

[simple&classic]

"or a pair of pears either with points-outwards or arranged so that they look they''re rotating around the centre stone. Is that a bit too "out there"?"

That is "out there" for an e-ring. A sapphire e-ring will be bold and different enough - a too creative setting is unnecessary.

I agree with velourial - the artofplatinum prongs are amazing. This ring is absolutely stunning: http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=264.