Looking to upgrade and need opinions, please!

[lalala]

Hello! This is my first post and looking for advice. I currently have a .70 carat G SI1 triple excellent diamond from James Allen. We have been engaged for 3 years and are FINALLY getting married in March. We've been wedding ring shopping and I'm thinking about going with a simpler diamond wedding band and upgrading the center diamond of the engagement ring. Original purchase price was $2880 for the center. We would like to spend under $4000 (so the new diamond value needs to be between $5760.00-$6880.00).

I would like to get the largest diamond I can for that price that is still really good quality. I'm not sure where I should give a little.. color? fluorescence? clarity? My current diamond does not have any fluorescence and I really like the color of it. I have not (knowingly) seen a diamond with fluorescence in person so I'm not sure how that affects it. I do know my ring sparkles more than most that I've seen in person even though it is smaller, not sure if that's due to the cut or color.. or both?

Any thoughts on the following diamonds?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3139061

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3270566

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288646

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3161160

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288619

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3160068

Thanks!

 

[lalala]

I guess new members don't get replies?!

 

[rockysalamander]

I guess new members don't get replies?!

Take a breath, my computer says you posted at 7 pm and now its 8:46. Things really get busy after 9 pm EST.

 

[Matthews1127]

I guess new members don't get replies?!

Don't fret. You're on the right track. There's nothing wrong with SI clarity, if it's EYE CLEAN.
Do you mind if I take a look to see if I can find any examples for comparison with what you've already found?
I'm far from an expert, but I've learned a lot, and I just helped a young man choose an EC diamond for his FF, and I've contributed some real beauties for others, in recent months....

 

[Matthews1127]

This is at your max budget...but, you can clearly see the difference in clarity. H color with some Fluorescence helps the diamond face up whiter. The XXX Cut makes her a performer, and the VVS clarity gives clean sparkle, and maximum performance.
She will appear larger than 1.11...and stay inside your budget parameters...

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3267802

 

[rockysalamander]

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3139061
Dark inclusions in the center of the table make this not my favorite one. I like the G. Pavillion angle too steep. {Depth 61/Table 57/Crown 33.5/Pavillion 43)

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3270566
Additional clouds noted on the GIA. You'll have to ask if the clouds impact the stone, although I don't see anything on the video. {D 62.2, T 57, C 34 Pav 40.. Look good if the clouds are not an issue.HCA 1.2.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288646
Clouds also noted. Can be fine or not. Inclusion at 4'oclock may not be fully covered with a prong. You'll have to ask. (D 62.1, T 56, C 35, P 40.6). HCA 0.90.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3161160
The dark inclusions on the table here are tiny and I don't think will impact the look of the stone. (D 62.3, T 56, C 35, P 40.. HCA 1.6.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...e-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3288619
Giant black inclusion makes this a problem for me. Too visible. I'd eliminate (although I love the pairing high color with SI stones).

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3160068
Giant black inclusion makes this a problem for me. You have better choices without a dark inclusion. I'd eliminate.

I'd keep #2, 3 and #4 in the running, I prefer #2 and 4 myself.

I also like:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3125171
{D 61.6, C 56, C 35, P 40.6, smaller than all the other choices, but the cutting is more precision with good near H&A, only pinpoint are unmapped meaning there should not be surprises}

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3152348
{I like the small table paired with the other angles; D 61.9, T 55, C 35.5, P 40.6; HCA 1.6, need to inquire about the clouds}

Once you narrow down your selections, you should request an Ideal-scope image. JA will only allow you 3, so wait to gather other's input before narrowing your choices.

 

[rockysalamander]

Added: I have no idea why, but it made my .8 into blue faces. I must have added some code. Ignore blue faces, they are .8s!

 

[Matthews1127]

My* above stone scores poorly on the HCA scale...
This scores much better....and is G in color...
It's also more reasonably priced, and will face up white & large...

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1980637

 

[rockysalamander]

@lalala:
1) do you have your GIA number handy? That would let us look at the angles of your stone and know what kind of stone you like (since size aside, you like this one).
2) Have you seen GIA H and I stones in person and you are sure you won't mind the drop from G to H?
3) How will you set the stone?

 

[rockysalamander]

My* above stone scores poorly on the HCA scale...
This scores much better....and is G in color...
It's also more reasonably priced, and will face up white & large...

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1980637

I saw that one also, but the medium flour + clouds not shown gave me pause. The video looks hazy to me, but maybe that is just a photographing?

 

[Matthews1127]

I saw that one also, but the medium flour + clouds not shown gave me pause. The video looks hazy to me, but maybe that is just a photographing?

Not to be negative, but I hate white backgrounds in videos. Too much, I believe, is missed, or confused. JA's vids drive me nuts!!! Finding eye clean, 1+ Ct stones in this budget wasn't easy for me, but that may have been because I wanted to demonstrate the clean table in comparison with those with inclusions against the table, or directly under the table...

 

[Matthews1127]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...e-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3312211

 

[rockysalamander]

Not to be negative, but I hate white backgrounds in videos. Too much, I believe, is missed, or confused. JA's vids drive me nuts!!! Finding eye clean, 1+ Ct stones in this budget wasn't easy for me, but that may have been because I wanted to demonstrate the clean table in comparison with those with inclusions against the table, or directly under the table...

I hear you sister! I'd just as soon have a tray of diamonds in front of me to just use my eyes. For 60/60 stones especially, I agree with others that numbers just don't work...you miss an essential something.

 

[Matthews1127]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3419289

 

[lalala]

Don't fret. You're on the right track. There's nothing wrong with SI clarity, if it's EYE CLEAN.
Do you mind if I take a look to see if I can find any examples for comparison with what you've already found?
I'm far from an expert, but I've learned a lot, and I just helped a young man choose an EC diamond for his FF, and I've contributed some real beauties for others, in recent months....

Please do! I'm trying to learn!

 

[lalala]

@lalala:
1) do you have your GIA number handy? That would let us look at the angles of your stone and know what kind of stone you like (since size aside, you like this one).
2) Have you seen GIA H and I stones in person and you are sure you won't mind the drop from G to H?
3) How will you set the stone?

1) sure, it's not perfect by any means 1177172908

2) I have not seen them in person so I don't know...

3) my current engagement ring needs to be resized so I was going to send it back to JA to have it resized and upgraded at the same time. It's a solitaire with a pave band, 4 prongs.

 

[Matthews1127]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3391762

 

[lalala]

Not to be negative, but I hate white backgrounds in videos. Too much, I believe, is missed, or confused. JA's vids drive me nuts!!! Finding eye clean, 1+ Ct stones in this budget wasn't easy for me, but that may have been because I wanted to demonstrate the clean table in comparison with those with inclusions against the table, or directly under the table...

How do I know if they are "eye clean"?

 

[Matthews1127]

How do I know if they are "eye clean"?

"Eye Clean" means "no visible inclusions" can be seen with the naked eye. Inclusions come in varied forms, shapes & sizes, and they determine the grade of clarity a stone receives during certification. The number and size of inclusions in a diamond weigh heavily in its clarity grade. The more clear the diamond is, the higher the clarity. Basically, you want a diamond with few obstructive inclusions as possible for max light performance and scintillation.
The diamonds I'm posting would be considered "eye clean"...
You still must consider requesting ASETS & IS's for the diamond you are considering purchasing to ensure it's a top performer, and meets your expectations...

 

[lalala]

"Eye Clean" means "no visible inclusions" can be seen with the naked eye. Inclusions come in varied forms, shapes & sizes, and they determine the grade of clarity a stone receives during certification. The number and size of inclusions in a diamond weigh heavily in its clarity grade. The more clear the diamond is, the higher the clarity. Basically, you want a diamond with few obstructive inclusions as possible for max light performance and scintillation.
The diamonds I'm posting would be considered "eye clean"...
You still must consider requesting ASETS & IS's for the diamond you are considering purchasing to ensure it's a top performer, and meets your expectations...

I guess I have a lot to learn. I thought they were all eye clean (not zoomed in)

 

[lalala]

Is it better to have higher clarity with a lower color grade or vice versa?

 

[Matthews1127]

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/l...d-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3078090

 

[Matthews1127]

Is it better to have higher clarity with a lower color grade or vice versa?

That is all personal preference. Clarity is relative; location of your inclusions, and nature of your inclusions are what will matter most. As I said before, SI clarity isn't bad, depending on the location, and nature of the inclusions. Color is a matter of preference. Some are color sensitive, and only want colorless diamonds. Some, like myself, don't mind warmer tones...

 

[rockysalamander]

Link to YOUR existing stone on GIA. https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1177172908
Depth 61.4, Table 56, Crown Angle 34, Pavilion Angle 41.2 {HCA 2.9}.

Based on your stone, G SI1 and a good performer a safe choice. The SI1 has to be carefully selected as the larger the stone, the more you tend to see the flaws.

Color. I would recommend that you go to a higher-end store (no mall and not Tiffany's) and actually look and GIA graded H, I and J colored stones. They will all face-up white (at least the one's we recommend), but you will see tint from the side. You need to see what does and does not work for you. Some see vast difference between G and H, others don't.

Setting. If JA still sells that setting, it should tell you what size stone it can accommodate. They will replace the head but some limitation may apply to how much they can increase the head within a specific setting. Also, you will see more of the side of a stone in a 4-prong than a 6. So, many of us would be the new stone in a 6-prong head to help make is harder to see the color from the side if possible. See pic below, I circled where to look for the size. If your setting is not still sold, you can talk with them via chat about this.

Balances. I personally like pairing a high color when you have lower clarity. I also personally avoid black inclusions as once I see them, I can't unsee them. But, budget is important also. So, you have a set budget and are already comfortable with an SI1 (and the 'right' SI2), so the only C left to turn is color and cut. We are selecting stones that are cut within narrow parameters that are roughly equal to an Ideal cut stone. Some will also use the HCA tool to check if the angles are complimentary. I also look at the AGS proportion chart and look at the videos...a lot. Everyone has their own method to determine what they feel comfortable recommending on cut. Color (see above).

Florescence. Can be a really good thing in a H, I or J (even K) diamond as it can visually lift the color so they look whiter. It can also cause milkiness or haziness, so we'll always recommend you have the JA gemologist look at the stone (once you've narrowed your choices). I love it and would probably put a UV light above my desk if I had a stone with florescence.

 

[rockysalamander]

"zoomed all the way out" will depend on your monitor settings and quality. So, I can see much much more on my DH gaming monitor that is HD super high def and every other "high"/fancy thing you want for gaming. Its very different on my computer monitors. So, PSers will note when we think you should ask the JA gemologist (not sales associate) once you narrow your choices.

 

[lalala]

Link to YOUR existing stone on GIA. https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=1177172908
Depth 61.4, Table 56, Crown Angle 34, Pavilion Angle 41.2 {HCA 2.9}.

Based on your stone, G SI1 and a good performer a safe choice. The SI1 has to be carefully selected as the larger the stone, the more you tend to see the flaws.

Color. I would recommend that you go to a higher-end store (no mall and not Tiffany's) and actually look and GIA graded H, I and J colored stones. They will all face-up white (at least the one's we recommend), but you will see tint from the side. You need to see what does and does not work for you. Some see vast difference between G and H, others don't.

Setting. If JA still sells that setting, it should tell you what size stone it can accommodate. They will replace the head but some limitation may apply to how much they can increase the head within a specific setting. Also, you will see more of the side of a stone in a 4-prong than a 6. So, many of us would be the new stone in a 6-prong head to help make is harder to see the color from the side if possible. See pic below, I circled where to look for the size. If your setting is not still sold, you can talk with them via chat about this.

Balances. I personally like pairing a high color when you have lower clarity. I also personally avoid black inclusions as once I see them, I can't unsee them. But, budget is important also. So, you have a set budget and are already comfortable with an SI1 (and the 'right' SI2), so the only C left to turn is color and cut. We are selecting stones that are cut within narrow parameters that are roughly equal to an Ideal cut stone. Some will also use the HCA tool to check if the angles are complimentary. I also look at the AGS proportion chart and look at the videos...a lot. Everyone has their own method to determine what they feel comfortable recommending on cut. Color (see above).

Florescence. Can be a really good thing in a H, I or J (even K) diamond as it can visually lift the color so they look whiter. It can also cause milkiness or haziness, so we'll always recommend you have the JA gemologist look at the stone (once you've narrowed your choices). I love it and would probably put a UV light above my desk if I had a stone with florescence.

Thank you! My current setting can go to 3.50 carats but if I do go with a lower color, I'll ask about changing it to 6 prongs. Do I need to call JA to speak with a gemologist to clarify if a specific stone is eye clean? I'm assuming the chat just connects you to sales associates in a data center..

I guess I need to figure out if I care more about size or quality... and probably increase my budget.

 

[rockysalamander]

I guess I need to figure out if I care more about size or quality... and probably increase my budget.

Yup, but I don't think you know yet if you need a higher budget if you can do some leg-work. If you can take a look at GIA graded stone IRL, you can see if you can (1) see the color in H, I, J from the top and sides {physically, some people can and cannot see this fine color difference} and (2) does is bother you at all. The existence of "tint" does not mean is will or should bother you. A lot of people drop color to gain some size or clarity or simplify prefer a warm white (I'm in that camp). With a well-crafted 6-prong setting, you won't see a lot of the side, and dropping color would gain you size -- as the diamond above showed. If you were ok with I or J, that makes it even wider.

Also, most feel that a top-cut stone will "look" bigger. There is a GoodOldGold video about this in reference to ideal cuts, maybe someone can link to it.

 

[lalala]

Well, now I kind of have a fascination with OEC diamonds... not sure what to do about that...

Also, contemplating on whether or not to do the upgrade with JA or switch to whiteflash (or another) before I get in too deep $$$. I guess I'd have to liquidate my current ring and diamond and start from scratch at another vendor.

I wanted to keep my first upgrade within a reasonable budget-- knowing I'll want to upgrade in the future and with JA there's the 2x factor to consider. If I went with whiteflash, I could increase the current budget knowing that upgrades in the future don't have to be 2xs (unless I have whiteflash's upgrade policy confused with another). Plus, I've seen a couple ACA diamonds on here that have me drooling.

Oh, and I read through another thread and now I like champagne diamonds with rose gold!

I think I just like diamonds

So many decisions...

 

[lalala]

Yup, but I don't think you know yet if you need a higher budget if you can do some leg-work. If you can take a look at GIA graded stone IRL, you can see if you can (1) see the color in H, I, J from the top and sides {physically, some people can and cannot see this fine color difference} and (2) does is bother you at all. The existence of "tint" does not mean is will or should bother you. A lot of people drop color to gain some size or clarity or simplify prefer a warm white (I'm in that camp). With a well-crafted 6-prong setting, you won't see a lot of the side, and dropping color would gain you size -- as the diamond above showed. If you were ok with I or J, that makes it even wider.

Also, most feel that a top-cut stone will "look" bigger. There is a GoodOldGold video about this in reference to ideal cuts, maybe someone can link to it.

I believe I'm going to go with quality over size for now. If I love the sparkle of my current diamond, I think I'll be BLOWN away with a better cut one. As for color, I'm going this weekend to see a few in person. I think I'm opening up to the warmer stones!

Ps: this forum might be my future husband's worst nightmare. I'm getting obsessed. I want all the diamonds.

Pss: also noticed that I shouldn't post diamonds on here unless I'm ready to pull the trigger, they go fast! One of the ones I posted is now gone and I've been stalking it for 2 weeks

 

[KKJohnson]

Have you looked at Jewels by Grace? I saw you said you liked OEC and warmer...she has some to die for rings and loose stones.