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Looking for opinion of Diamond

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Zaster85

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
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27

Hey everyone, I need some help kinda quickly. I had inquired about a diamond a few days ago and finally recieved the IS image of it. Have 24 hours to confirm/deny it.



The specs are as follows:



Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.60
Cut: Ideal
Color: E
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.1%
Table: 54.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.46*5.43*3.38

The Pavilion Angle is 40.3 (or 40.8, I cant read the GIA report and and getting this confirmed)
The Crown Angle is 35.4

IS image:
See Attachment

ISimg.jpg
 
Additon: The IS image looks good, however it does appear to be slightly tilted. What do you all think.?
 
Looks good! The IS isn''t tilted, it is just that the light source is stronger on the upper left.
 
Thanks for the quick replies. Stone-Cold11, thanks, I didnt know I could look a diamond up that way.

When I plug the values into HCA, i come up with a 2.5.

Typically I thought the general consensus was anything more then 2 should be in question. The HCA appears to be in both GIA and AGS regions however, but only shows as Very Good for all 4 categories.

How can this be?
And I’m assuming there will be a noticeable difference between Excellent and Very Good?
And ultimately, this is just an estimation tool... so does it matter?
 
Date: 12/16/2009 5:54:57 PM
Author: Zaster85
Thanks for the quick replies. Stone-Cold11, thanks, I didnt know I could look a diamond up that way.

When I plug the values into HCA, i come up with a 2.5.

Typically I thought the general consensus was anything more then 2 should be in question. The HCA appears to be in both GIA and AGS regions however, but only shows as Very Good for all 4 categories.

How can this be?
And I’m assuming there will be a noticeable difference between Excellent and Very Good?
And ultimately, this is just an estimation tool... so does it matter? You are right, it is just an estimation/elimination tool. HCA scores are trumped by actual IS images. The idea of looking for diamonds scoring under 2 is that a higher percentage of them will have outstanding performance, so you can save time by only looking at stones that have a greater chance of being good. There are many outstanding diamonds that score just over 2 on the HCA, just that the percentage of outstanding performers to the whole is smaller. It looks like you found an excellent diamond. Some people do actually use 2.5 as the cutoff for requesting more information, rather than 2 as the cutoff.
Click to expand...
 
Ya, HCA score does not matter when you have IS image. So it is good. :)
 
Thank both of you. I guess I just need to check with some other vendors to make sure the 1800 price tag is worth it. Thanks.

Actually... one more question. What does it take to be a H&A diamond? The GIA says there is a laser inscription of "H&A" on the diamond, but its not classified as such. Im guessing this means its not a "H&A", but someone had it inscribed for some reason?
 
The diamond looks good from the IS!

Run a search up top to find out comparable price of similar diamonds.
 

{angry ranted deleted. Long story short. Custom setting gets more expensive if I dont order a diamond from WF. Already outside my budget and cant afford that... so}


Here is a diamond WF recommended as a replacement to the one I requested in the setting but was sold anyways. The IS looks good. The ASET image concerns me, but I don’t know enough about ASETs to really quantify a decision on it. I cant see it on the 40X picture, but the center of the stone being less brilliant (ASET) doesn’t fill me with confidence. WF ASET is also different then AGS ASET.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=2213236#

Opinions?
 
oh, dreamer_dachsie, thanks for saving me some time with that search feature, lol. I was getting all set up to do multiple searches via each vendor.
 
The WF diamond is an excellent stone. IS is actually more valuable for rounds than ASET in many ways. IS will show how much light is being reflected, ASET shows where it is being reflected from. The center being green on ASET is actually very common on rounds and does not necessarily mean that it is less brilliant.

With your budget, you will just have to decide what is more important, a custom setting or larger stone.
 
So what information would the ASET provide then? Knowing where the light originates pretty much shows the internal reflection in the diamond. The only purpose I can see for an ASET is discovering impurities (or I guess poor cuts/facets/angles), which would refract/reflect the light in an unwanted direction. This cant be all the ASET is good for is it?
 
As I understand, IS is better for seeing leakage. It works great for rounds because all of the pavillion facets have very similar angles. Rounds are the best shape for reflecting light and when you look at ASET for a round, you will see very little green, it will generally show red or the background color.

ASET is more useful for fancy shapes, because the angles are constantly variable. Using a princess as an example, the pavillion angle from girdle to culet at the corners is radically different than the angle in the center of a side. Add to that all the variations and bulges that can be cut in the pavillions of fancy shapes and you need to have an idea where the diamond is drawing light from.

The goal with ASET is to have more red than green. A round will pretty much always show that--fancy shapes may or may not. You want the red so that once the diamond is set, it will be drawing most of its light from above, since the setting usually blocks most light from lower angles.

The small section of green in the ASET of a round is simply because the more direct light ray paths don''t always reach the area around the culet because they are reflected back out the crown before reaching that deep into the diamond.

It would be good to get someone like Garry or Karl in on this. They can probably explain it better.
 
I guess that makes sense. Ill have to do somemore digging on this.

I think I am going to move forward with the 41 pt and the nicer setting. Figure its the best solution. I think the difference between a .6 and a .4 isnt all that noticable, and if time shrinks my diamond like most say it does, Ill end up getting a larger one anyways. So spending more on the setting makes sense when the diamond will be changed regardless.

Now lets just hope this diamond is still here in the morning. :)
 
WF has a great trade in/upgrade policy with their ACA''s, so that''s good.

Without knowing what the setting looks like, my concern would be whether the design of the custom setting will allow a larger diamond to be set at a later date without extensive and expensive modification. You might mention to WF that you will be wanting to do upgrade to a larger size down the road and see if they can make sure the design will accomodate that.

Best of luck.
 
Already have, they are checking into it, but my contact said it shouldnt be an issue. Just need a confirmation on that and Ill be set. Setting is as shown in attachments.

561585403_SV_LG_JAR.jpg
 
another view

561585403_MV_LG_JAR_bBR.jpg
 
thank you for your help btw. :)
 
I don''t want to be poopy here, but there is a very large and noticable difference between a .40 and a .60 diamond. 4.8mm vs. 5.4mm, which is over half a mm in diameter, or over 10% increase in diameter. Doesn''t sound like much but it really is. Before making your decision, perhaps you can ask them to take a photo of a .40 next to a .60, just so you know exactly the compromise you are making to get the setting you want? It is something that they do often.

I would always advise on a limited budget to put the majority of funds towards the diamond and then get the dream setting later when funds allow.
 
you think dreamer_dachsie?

I figured the other way around would be best, because any money spent on a setting that is changed is wasted, where as the diamond can be traded up? I mean, unless you talking a $250 solitare setting, a decent setting will be running in the ball park of 750 to 1250 right?
 
Date: 12/16/2009 11:01:06 PM
Author: Zaster85
thank you for your help btw. :)
Click to expand...
You are welcome--that is what we are here for.

The pictured setting appears to have a peg head, so changing the diamond just requires replacing the head when the stone is upgraded. Definitely not a problem if this is the case.

As dreamer mentions, many people prefer to invest most of the budget into a stone and upgrade the setting later. However, you need to do what works best for you and your gf. When I was e-ring shopping, I was most concerned that the setting fit her style and then spent the rest of the budget on a diamond. Some people may consider that to be backwards, but I'm wierd
19.gif
9.gif
. Another avenue would be to look at a larger stone with lower color &/or clarity (as long as it is eye-clean) so you could get a larger diamond for your budget. WF's Expert Selection stones offer performance very near the ACA's at a slightly lower cost, as they don't carry the H&A premium.

Maybe something like this as a compromise http://www.whiteflash.com/premium_select_round/Premium-Select-Round-cut-diamond-1987283.htm
You'd have to check about the upgrade policy, as it has recently been updated.

There is no wrong way to do go about this, it is just what is most comfortable to you.
 

Well... I think I am going to have to make an executive decision on this. I wanted the first one to be perfect, but it comes down to nice setting/small diamond, or large diamond/normal setting. I am just waffling back and forth every time someone posts.


Is there any danger in using a
http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=ST6PW&CategID=13

Its a $300 tiffany style setting. As long as its secure, Ill move with that and get a better diamond.


All in all, I think dreamer_dachsie made a good point. The diamond is going to be what gets her, and ultimately all I need to propose. I want the ring to be perfect on first presentation, but I think that waiting a few months to save more for a setting, and having her work with WF team on designing is probably better then my ordering a custom piece on the assumption what I get will work for her because its based on something she liked.


As for the Diamond,
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2119072.htm

IS looks good, there two slight inclusions according to the AGS, I can also see them under the 40x, but I don’t think they will cause issue due to it being... well... 40x. lol


Does this have the PS blessing?

Btw, what changed in the WF upgrade policy:

The purchase of any Whiteflash A Cut Above® (ACA) Super Ideal diamond or Whiteflash Expert Selection Ideal diamond automatically qualifies you for lifetime trade up for any other single diamond of equal or greater value.
Diamonds in our “Premium Select” or "Other Diamonds" category, as well as diamonds that are sourced for you, may also be eligible by special approval and noted on your invoice.
Credit will be given for full purchase price, less original shipping, for any qualifying trade up. Diamonds must be returned in undamaged condition accompanied by original diamond laboratory certificate.
* Please note: Policies subject to change. Current policy will always be posted on our website.

It seems pretty inclusive to me. Need an ACA, check, and just need to purchase equal or greater value. Only sticky point is qualifying, but Ill just ask about that.
 
Looks great.

I think the idea of letting her help design the setting is a good one. (You could also think about having a wedding band designed at the same time, if so inclined). You can always re-use the solitaire setting by having a colored gemstone set in it and she would have a right hand ring.

The reason I mentioned the policy was because the diamond I linked was a Premium Select. The policies changed due to adding the extra levels. As long as you are sticking with an ACA, then no worries.
 
Well, Im going through with a purchase. Thanks all for the help. I wont be getting it for 2 weeks or so, but Ill post some pictures when I do.
 
I think you made the right choice!
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And although I am the only one who said it on this thread, many many times this issue has come up here on PS and other women especially have said the same thing.

There is *nothing* wrong with that setting. Whiteflash in particula does great finish work on their rings, so although it is simple it will look like a million bucks. And it will make the diamond *pop*.

Please come back with pictures once you have it!

PS: I think "qualifying trade up" just refers to the new diamond being valued at more than the current.
 
If I may resurrect this thread, I am going to insure the ring through Jewelers mutual, but not sure what else I need to do (or more importantly, what I should do).

I have contacted JM about insuring the ring, and according to them, all I need is the appraisal WF provides for the ACA diamond. WF also says the same thing. Now... do I need to do anything else? Is it better to get a second independent appraisal and submit both? Will the independent appraiser be able to do his thing if the diamond is already set?

For that matter, do I need a second appraisal in general? I would assume WF is pretty good with the product they deliver, being that they come highly recommended. Any recommendations?

****EDIT****

Is there anything else I should ask from WF? Do they send IS, hearts, etc. images, or should I request them? Are they even needed?

 
For insurance purposes you need to give them a value for the ring, but you may also want to give them the cert from AGS that accompanies the ring. The cert identifies the diamond and also specifies that it is an ACA. Depending on your type of insurance, they will replace the diamond for you or give yo ua cash settlement. If cash, all that matters is the value of the ring. If the insurance company would replace the ring for you, then you need to document its kind and quality so that they can get your something equivalent. In this case, I think that is the cert and the fact that it is a branded cut (it is laser inscribed ACA and the cert number, and this is on the cert as well). If you make a claim then you can argue they should buy you an ACA so you don''t lose the upgrade etc policies that go with the diamond. Anyways, the cert is enough to establish all that along with the appraisal that comes with it.

The only major reason to have another appraisal done would be to make sure the diamond you get matches the cert. An appraiser can do that when it is set based on the inclusion plot in the cert (see why certs are so useful
1.gif
).

Me personally, I have not bothered to do this with anything I have gotten from WF, but its up to you.
 
Date: 12/19/2009 10:21:39 PM
Author: Zaster85

Is there anything else I should ask from WF? Do they send IS, hearts, etc. images, or should I request them? Are they even needed?


Click to expand...
No, they will send you the ring, a lovely ring box, the cert inclusing a photo copy to give your insurance, the appraisal, an IS viewer and some other little doohickeys for cleaning the ring. That''s it! You don''t need to images. The cert is basically like the ownership of the diamond, like the papers that come with a car. It is all you need.
 
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