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Looking for help choosing Princess Cut

charlz54

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
3
Hey everyone,
I'm new here. Been creeping the forums for the last few weeks trying to educate myself as I pick out an engagement ring. After many weeks, I've chosen this setting from JA.
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-tailored-diamond-engagement-ring-item-41126

And now I'm looking for a princess cut stone to go with it.
I'm looking for something in the 0.70-0.75 ct range. VS2+, F+ and ideal cut. Budget tops out at $2450 USD for the stone.
In playing with the filters on the JA diamond search, I have narrowed it to these 6.

(1) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.72-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-914563
(2) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.70-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-1063089
(3) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-917993
(4) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-997907
(5) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.70-carat-f-color-vs1-clarity-sku-939745
(6) http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.70-carat-f-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-973794

So, I've maxed out my knowledge on the stones and looking for a little wisdom here.
I've been thinking to rule out #4 as it has the worst L/W ratio of the lot and a shallow crown (any rule of thumb on this? Just looks off to me). Other than that though, not sure if there's anything else I should be looking for.

Any opinions? Hoping to finalize and get this on order before the week is through. I appreciate any help you can give. Thanks!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I would not pick that setting for a princess that is under 1.5 carats. It will severely overwhelm it. It's a very poor setting choice for a stone of the size your budget can buy, I'm afraid. Princesses face up much smaller than rounds of the same size. An approximately 5mm stone is going to need a much thinner shank, and preferably a taper at the stone.

Unless there are cultural factors for selecting F VS1 you are wasting buckets full of money on that color and clarity.

You would be best off maximize performance and going for H Si1 color and clarity in an AGS0 stone like this one: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/0.73-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-1062283

I'm going to change vendors for you.

Did the recipient/wearer specifically request a princess in that style setting in platinum?

This what I recommend you buy:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.730-g-si1-princess-diamond-ags-104080595013
or
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.726-h-vs2-princess-diamond-ags-104080595014

In one of these two settings:

If platinum is a requirement: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-platinum-5369p

If platinum is not a requirement: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/gaia-18k-white-gold-5983w18

If you are stuck on JA as a vendor, pick the above H VS2 AGS0 stone and set it in this setting: http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/platinum-petite-diamond-accent-engagement-ring-item-50319 Okay?
 

charlz54

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
3
Hi Gypsy, thanks for the reply.

To answer your questions, yes the princess cut is a specific requirement here. The platinum is not, that just happened to be what I was thinking at the time. After spending some time reading on it yesterday, I think 14k may be the better option however. Just weighing the hardness vs malleability.

My initial impressions of this setting were similar. However once I had seen this style in person, I liked it a lot better than the other options I had been looking at including the petite ones that tapered right at the top. These are my other main consideration for setting:

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...-2.2mm-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-2347
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...16ct-pave-set-diamond-engagement-ring-item-18

I had arrived at F VS1 by simply setting a max price and filtering out lower grades until there were a manageable number of diamonds to choose from. They are definitely not my minimum requirements. I suppose this isn't the best approach for saving money, but absent any detailed diamond knowledge or experience I wasn't sure how else to avoid trying to compare 50+ stones. So that's why I figured I could seek some help here.

I'm not familiar with AGS0. Is that simply another diamond grading body or is there more to it than that?
 

Krod

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
31
I have nothing against the idea of buying online, but I would highly suggest you go into a B&M and look at a number of diamonds side by side. Places like Jareds do an excellent job of explaining the basics of diamonds and would gladly put a number of different diamonds in front of you so you can decide what level you want to be at throughout the Cs

As for me, I am able to detect inclusions in VS1 with my naked eye. It was thus worth it to me to get a VVS, but for some with worse eyes, VS or even SI are perfectly fine. What matters at the end of the day is what works for you. Same with color. Some people prefer D-F and others actually prefer G-J. Truth is that often you will never have multiple color grades worth of diamonds side by side, so whatever you choose will be fine. Again, what matters at the end of the day is what works for you. For me, I am extremely color sensitive and actually preferred Colorless, but when I was initially shopping at considering yellow gold, G-H were just fine as the gold was bouncing colors anyway.

Once you figure out what specs are a priority for you, then go look online for a diamond.
 

farrahlyn

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,170
charlz54 said:
Hi Gypsy, thanks for the reply.

To answer your questions, yes the princess cut is a specific requirement here. The platinum is not, that just happened to be what I was thinking at the time. After spending some time reading on it yesterday, I think 14k may be the better option however. Just weighing the hardness vs malleability.

My initial impressions of this setting were similar. However once I had seen this style in person, I liked it a lot better than the other options I had been looking at including the petite ones that tapered right at the top. These are my other main consideration for setting:

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...-2.2mm-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-2347
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagemen...16ct-pave-set-diamond-engagement-ring-item-18

I had arrived at F VS1 by simply setting a max price and filtering out lower grades until there were a manageable number of diamonds to choose from. They are definitely not my minimum requirements. I suppose this isn't the best approach for saving money, but absent any detailed diamond knowledge or experience I wasn't sure how else to avoid trying to compare 50+ stones. So that's why I figured I could seek some help here.

I'm not familiar with AGS0. Is that simply another diamond grading body or is there more to it than that?
i much prefer those settings, they don't swallow up the stone size you are looking at, like the first you posted. And if you go 14k, you can afford to spend more on a diamond. Like the claw prong (which i love), if you do 14k you can up your diamond budget to $2900 if so inclined.

AGS0 is a failsafe way to get a beautiful diamond. AGS has really stringent guidelines and an AGS0000 stone is going to be absolutely beautiful. the ASET is right on the cert. Take a look at the JA "H" colored stone gypsy posted above and look at the cert. You can filter JA to show just stones with AGS certs FYI
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Krod|1461339403|4022444 said:
I have nothing against the idea of buying online, but I would highly suggest you go into a B&M and look at a number of diamonds side by side. Places like Jareds do an excellent job of explaining the basics of diamonds and would gladly put a number of different diamonds in front of you so you can decide what level you want to be at throughout the Cs

As for me, I am able to detect inclusions in VS1 with my naked eye. It was thus worth it to me to get a VVS, but for some with worse eyes, VS or even SI are perfectly fine. What matters at the end of the day is what works for you. Same with color. Some people prefer D-F and others actually prefer G-J. Truth is that often you will never have multiple color grades worth of diamonds side by side, so whatever you choose will be fine. Again, what matters at the end of the day is what works for you. For me, I am extremely color sensitive and actually preferred Colorless, but when I was initially shopping at considering yellow gold, G-H were just fine as the gold was bouncing colors anyway.

Once you figure out what specs are a priority for you, then go look online for a diamond.

I really wish you would quit saying this. 99% of people can't see inclusions with an eyeclean SI1. "Bad eyesight" is not a requirement. I have 20/20 and have for the last 10 years I've been on this site and I can't spot inclusions in an eyeclean SI1 in a round diamond. In an emerald cut sure. Not not in a round .

You are really just scaring the newer posters.

Were the stones you saw accurately graded Vs stones? GIA graded? And were they brilliantly cut with ideal light performance?
 

charlz54

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
3
I did manage to go in person and see some different grades in person. For colour I would prefer G or better. For clarity, the VS range looked fine to me by eye so I'd be happy with VS2 or better. I had only stepped up those grades in an effort to cut down on the field.

Having looked at the AGS0 stones now, I can see there's not much available for my original budget with G+ VS2+. If I do step up the max price as Farrahlyn has suggested however, there are now some AGS0 ones available to me.

I'll have to confirm where my max price lies now with a 14k setting in the mix as opposed to platinum, but it's looking more promising for getting a top tier cut. Thanks for the feedback.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
That's what we are here for. You can go for a GIA stone. But only from a vendor that provides idealscope images.

I am happy you saw stones in person for color. Just as an FYI: when you are viewing stones in person for color make sure they are all GIA or AGS stones. You cannot compare the colors of other lab grades to those. They are usually off. ESPECIALLY those that are EGL labs, IGI, and *shudder* "In house graded."

I think G Vs2 is a good place for princesses. They do show color on the points so for me, H is the lowest I like in a princess. And that's something I've decided from in person observations.

Let us know if we can help you further.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
Gypsy|1461531390|4023142 said:
That's what we are here for. You can go for a GIA stone. But only from a vendor that provides idealscope images.

I am happy you saw stones in person for color. Just as an FYI: when you are viewing stones in person for color make sure they are all GIA or AGS stones. You cannot compare the colors of other lab grades to those. They are usually off. ESPECIALLY those that are EGL labs, IGI, and *shudder* "In house graded."

I think G Vs2 is a good place for princesses. They do show color on the points so for me, H is the lowest I like in a princess. And that's something I've decided from in person observations.

Let us know if we can help you further.
Hi charlz54 - I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Gypsy on the above bolded (sorry :wavey: )
Without revisting the whole thread, there was a similar conversation about IGI the other day if you're interested in reading various opinions about IGI and their lack of acceptance being based more on market/dealer factors than their actual grading accuracy - [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/advice-on-stone-especially-igi-color-grading.222255/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/advice-on-stone-especially-igi-color-grading.222255/[/URL]
First, IGI graded diamonds are listed on Rapnet, whereas EGL has been banned for their sloppy grading standards, so I think is is a bit unfair to put IGI anywhere near EGL.
IMO, based on colour / clarity / cut / symmetry / polish / fluorescence - - the difference between the GIA & IGI grading is virtually non-existent. IGI India/HK/Belgium are all pretty spot on with GIA for colour and SI1+ clarity goods...SI2s...hmmm...ok maybe you'd want to take a closer look (in my personal experience). Here's a link to a small industry test that was conducted in 2013 (some could argue that there weren't any SI2s in the test, and that this may have resulted in more differences) - - but overall they're pretty good.
http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417
It’s also my understanding that much of the criticism of IGI (in the US at least) is due to their valuations of jewellery, which I believe is independent from their loose diamond grading (someone please correct me if this is not right).
I think IGI graded loose diamonds tend to cop a bit of unfair criticism in the diamond forum world...and unfortunately, more often than not it's the end consumer that can miss out on some really nice stones because they've read/been told online to stay away from anything other than GIA or AGS.
Hope this helps
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Good information IDN. I will keep that in mind for the future.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,648
I accidentally found this thread referenced somewhere else and find that there are some very interesting points made here. First of all, Gypsy gives wonderful advice and has been such an asset to this community and newbies shopping worldwide. I find it of utmost importance to emphasize what Gypsy has said about clarity. Unless someone is some sort of a super talent or an alien, they will never be able to see inclusions in a true VS1 with the naked eye. I too have perfect vision and am in the trade. If you see inclusions in a VS stone the stone was either not true VS or there was an odd clarity characteristic in the wrong place, like a cloud or black spot right under the table, which would highly discount the stone and then also that stone was likely misgraded. As Gypsy stated in good SIs you should not see inclusions with the naked eye either, especially not in an SI1. When you get to SI2 or I1 you will start seeing an effect on the performance of the stone and/or see the inclusion if you are paying attention. Then it becomes a choice of whether you are ok with that stone or not. In general, a very prongable inclusion like a mineral close to the edge should not be a problem, whereas a big cloud affecting performance would. (Ok this is way too basic but just to give an idea). But yes, I highly agree with Gypsy that new people should not be scared by such comments.

In my experience, in Europe IGI has done really well and been spot on. I too have noticed that when it comes to the SI grades, well, that is where the grading starts to get a bit iffy. I have on the other hand seen many problems with HRD certs being way too lax on color and clarity for a long time but especially recently. IGI in Europe is far better than HRD in my opinion. GIA is always preferred of course but for not so valuable stones IGI is perfectly fine.
 
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