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Looking for Advices on this stone, help!

D

D2Chen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
9
Hi,

We have been looking for a while, and it is close to purchasing the center stone. Would love to get everyone's thoughts and feedback, and a reasonable price range?
  • 2.2 Carat, triple excellent cut, I, VS1
  • Very high on all 3 categories of Gemex report
  • HCA Score 1.1, very little leakage on the light scope
  • We can see fairly sharp hearts and arrows
GIA report: https://www.gia.edu/report-check?reportno=2276994669#

What would be a fair purchase price for this stone?
After some research I am potentially a bit concerned about girdle.
I am considering making this purchase but would really value feedback on the pricing but especially the quality of the center stone

LS22829 RBC 2.19ct IVS1 GIA#2276994669.jpg
 
Looks like a nice 60/60 style diamond. Should return lots of white light with less fire due to the low crown.
 
skypie said:
Looks like a nice 60/60 style diamond. Should return lots of white light with less fire due to the low crown.
Click to expand...

Thanks Skypie, what would be the ballpark for a fair price of this stone?
 
I'd say around $19-20K USD.

How much is that one listed for?
 
You could always search for that stone on other diamond selling websites (JA, BN, Adiamor, etc) and see what they are offering it for (if it is listed there). Then you could use that as a bargaining chip with your current vendor.
 
Sorry, the report check is down for me right now so I can't access the details, it looks nice from the image. What's your concerns with the girdle?

Pricing depends if it's online or from a jewellery store, typically the former is less expensive than from the latter.
 
There should be no concern with the girdle (medium 3.5%)

$21k is a little on the high side, but I would not call it out of line. Have you seen it in person to see if you like the 60/60 flat-top style?
 
Pretty nice 60/60 diamond, in actual even if you compare this to 34 or 34.5 crown angle with 57/58 table still hard to tell the difference though. Love to see the scope images if you have it :mrgreen2:
 
YoLaL said:
Pretty nice 60/60 diamond, in actual even if you compare this to 34 or 34.5 crown angle with 57/58 table still hard to tell the difference though. Love to see the scope images if you have it :mrgreen2:
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Hi Yolai, I just managed to get my hands on the idealscope images. Any further thought on 60/60? IMG_3536.jpg IMG_3538.jpg
rd_2.19_ivs1_ls22829-ASET white-01.jpg
 
skypie said:
There should be no concern with the girdle (medium 3.5%)

$21k is a little on the high side, but I would not call it out of line. Have you seen it in person to see if you like the 60/60 flat-top style?
Click to expand...

Hi, I did see it in person, through lifescope, and hearts and arrows etc. as well. It looked like it was well cut. But I am not quite sure how to negotiate the price on this?

What would be the recommended tactics?
 
bmfang said:
You could always search for that stone on other diamond selling websites (JA, BN, Adiamor, etc) and see what they are offering it for (if it is listed there). Then you could use that as a bargaining chip with your current vendor.
Click to expand...

The ones I found online that are close to price, weight / size, and cut quality, were priced 3-4K higher with worse clarity, at least from Whiteflash
 
Scope images for the stone are good. You have good light return but the stone is definitely not cut to super ideal standards for symmetry. That’s what you end up paying for at a vendor like Whiteflash (along with upgrade policies, etc).
 
bmfang said:
Scope images for the stone are good. You have good light return but the stone is definitely not cut to super ideal standards for symmetry. That’s what you end up paying for at a vendor like Whiteflash (along with upgrade policies, etc).
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot!

Can I understand what is not being cut to super ideal standards here? (e.g. table vs. depth ratio?) And how does that impact the visual of the diamond? (Isnt good light return the ultimate point or there is more to it?)

Really appreciate all these basic Q&As :)
 
When you look at an IS or ASET image from Whiteflash, you generally do not see such large gaps in between the bases of the arrow shafts. Instead, what you do see is a very defined Star shape. Hearts and arrows also are different. You will usually see even chevrons in the hearts image along with even sized hearts with no clefts in them.

So you can find table/depth, angle combos that are similar between super ideals and well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 stones but what it comes down to is the tightness of cutting parameters and taking optical symmetry into account (along with meet point symmetry which is what GIA uses to determine their cut grade and symmetry gradings).

The tightness of the cutting parameters in a super ideal stone (whether from Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Crafted By Infinity, Victor Canera Ideal Hearts, some Blue Nile Astor and some James Allen True Hearts) helps out in the number of virtual facets that are created, that will help out with reflecting light back to the viewer’s eyes.

For some, that is the pinnacle of what they want in a diamond. Others have a different view. It’s like the difference between a BMW M car vs a Toyota GT86/Subaru BRz. Both are sports cars, but they go about their business in very different ways. One is all about super performance (a BMW M car) while the other also has performance in mind but is tamer but will still give you lots of fun (the GT86/BRZ).

It’s all a matter of priorities for the intended purchaser. For me if an ASET and IS looks as good as the above and I am not interested in super ideals (due to budget or different priorities), then that stone is the right one for me. Plus, some folks can’t see the difference between a super ideal and a well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 that meets the PS community’s standards.
 
bmfang said:
When you look at an IS or ASET image from Whiteflash, you generally do not see such large gaps in between the bases of the arrow shafts. Instead, what you do see is a very defined Star shape. Hearts and arrows also are different. You will usually see even chevrons in the hearts image along with even sized hearts with no clefts in them.

So you can find table/depth, angle combos that are similar between super ideals and well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 stones but what it comes down to is the tightness of cutting parameters and taking optical symmetry into account (along with meet point symmetry which is what GIA uses to determine their cut grade and symmetry gradings).

The tightness of the cutting parameters in a super ideal stone (whether from Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Crafted By Infinity, Victor Canera Ideal Hearts, some Blue Nile Astor and some James Allen True Hearts) helps out in the number of virtual facets that are created, that will help out with reflecting light back to the viewer’s eyes.

For some, that is the pinnacle of what they want in a diamond. Others have a different view. It’s like the difference between a BMW M car vs a Toyota GT86/Subaru BRz. Both are sports cars, but they go about their business in very different ways. One is all about super performance (a BMW M car) while the other also has performance in mind but is tamer but will still give you lots of fun (the GT86/BRZ).

It’s all a matter of priorities for the intended purchaser. For me if an ASET and IS looks as good as the above and I am not interested in super ideals (due to budget or different priorities), then that stone is the right one for me. Plus, some folks can’t see the difference between a super ideal and a well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 that meets the PS community’s standards.
Click to expand...
''

Thank you!! This is illuminating.

Kudos to the sports car analogy, this is the first time in diamond world I find something relatable...lol...
 
D2Chen said:
''

Thank you!! This is illuminating.

Kudos to the sports car analogy, this is the first time in diamond world I find something relatable...lol...
Click to expand...

I’m a guy. I figure that you are a guy too who is posting.

I like cars. I guessed that if you were a guy, you’d prolly get the analogy.

If not sports cars, I could have gone the other way and compared them to general passenger cars.

The really crappy stones (so a fair number of GIA XXX’s and the others that have Very Good and lower cut grades) are akin to the cheap as chips base model passenger cars out there. If you want to get from A-B those are the cars for you. If you want a piece of carbon that has been compressed by pressure and heat into a stone that is called a diamond, then those stones are the ones for you. Except that the analogy breaks down at this level as I’d be more than happy to drive a cheap as chips car rather than to stare at a heavily included I1 GIA Good/Very Good stone any day!

The good GIA XXX’s/AGS 000’s are more akin to your mid-range passenger cars/SUV’s (or poverty pack cars from the luxury marques). Good solid dependable performance with some luxuries. Nothing wrong with them. Some don’t feel the need to go high end but want something that will be a solid dependable performer.

Super ideals (and I will include some of the stunning designs like the Octavia that @Karl_K designed, @Rhino recent Opulence Oval and August Vintage ranges, Brian Gavin’s new Ideal Emerald Cuts) are more like your high end luxury marques with the full options list on the car added (though these super ideal stones at the 2ct and lower size ranges are certainly more affordable than a BMW 7 series, Mercedes S class, Audi S range, Lexus LS, Maybach, etc!!!!)
 
Thanks for excellent input :appl:

bmfang said:
When you look at an IS or ASET image from Whiteflash, you generally do not see such large gaps in between the bases of the arrow shafts. Instead, what you do see is a very defined Star shape. Hearts and arrows also are different. You will usually see even chevrons in the hearts image along with even sized hearts with no clefts in them.

So you can find table/depth, angle combos that are similar between super ideals and well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 stones but what it comes down to is the tightness of cutting parameters and taking optical symmetry into account (along with meet point symmetry which is what GIA uses to determine their cut grade and symmetry gradings).

The tightness of the cutting parameters in a super ideal stone (whether from Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Crafted By Infinity, Victor Canera Ideal Hearts, some Blue Nile Astor and some James Allen True Hearts) helps out in the number of virtual facets that are created, that will help out with reflecting light back to the viewer’s eyes.

For some, that is the pinnacle of what they want in a diamond. Others have a different view. It’s like the difference between a BMW M car vs a Toyota GT86/Subaru BRz. Both are sports cars, but they go about their business in very different ways. One is all about super performance (a BMW M car) while the other also has performance in mind but is tamer but will still give you lots of fun (the GT86/BRZ).

It’s all a matter of priorities for the intended purchaser. For me if an ASET and IS looks as good as the above and I am not interested in super ideals (due to budget or different priorities), then that stone is the right one for me. Plus, some folks can’t see the difference between a super ideal and a well cut GIA XXX/AGS 000 that meets the PS community’s standards.
Click to expand...
 
D2Chen said:
And how does that impact the visual of the diamond?
Really appreciate all these basic Q&As :)
Click to expand...

In real life if you compare this diamond to the so called Super Ideal cut, the optical light performance (brightness and fire scintillation under different ligthing environment) it's look totally no difference and sometimes 60/60 diamonds will perform more than the super one..
Congratulations that you see it in person and you are so lucky because some buyer have no chance to see thier diamond before purchase.
 
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