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Looking for 4ct princess but no experience....!!

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There shouldn''t be as much of a difference in the face up size as it seems some of you are indicating. The diameter of a 1 ct round is about 6.5 and a princess is only 5.5, but the ratio is not 5.5/6.5 because you have to calculate the areas differently (pi)(r^2) compared to l x w. The round is still slightly larger, but the princess should be about 91-92% as large at 1 ct. (30.25 mm^2 for the princess compared to 33.1 mm^2 for the round) At 4 carats, the difference is even smaller: 9 mm length and width for the princess = 81 mm^2, while 10.4 mm diameter for the round = 84.9 mm^2. So at 4 ct, the princess has about 95-96% as much surface area. Also, don''t princesses tend to be less expensive per carat? I would guess the surface area/dollar would work out almost evenly in the 4 carat range.
 
HI:

There is a poster on this board called "researcher" and pardon the pun but she undertook a fair amount of research before buying her 3 carat PC stone. It is a beauty. You can find her threads by using the search function and typing in her name.

Not to confuse you more, but since you began looking at 'squarish" shapes, perhaps you might consider a cushion or radiant cut as well. After wearing a round for 21 years, I received a radiant for my anni., and I really love it. Besides GOG in NY, Mark at ERD (engagement rings direct) is known for his "cushions".

Perhaps you could begin by seeing some of these fancy shapes in person and get a visual of the shape and perspective of a four carat size. Happy searching! And BTW, this size of stone will sing on its own and may not need any colored stone adornment at all!!

cheers--Sharon
 
I just wanted to chime in to make a comment here. You sound like a fabulous husband and your wife is lucky to have you. What a thoughtful gift you are getting! But....forgive me if I am out of line...it seems like you are not really sure of your wife''s taste and you are planning on spending a very large amount of money. There are a lot of people (myself included) who are not particularly fond of the ''crushed glass'' appearance of a princess cut diamond. Maybe you are sure she loves PC''s and you just haven''t said so here. Same for the pears.

If you are completely surprising her, you may want to make sure that you pick a vendor that has a solid exchange policy and a nice selection on the off chance it is not her dream ring.

Again, please forgive me but I hate to see anyone spend that kind of $$ and not get exactly what the woman wants.

If I were in London ( I wish I was right now :), I would go check out Graff diamonds at least to see what appeals to you in terms of ring designs. They have become my favorite store here in Chicago. They have a three carat cushion cut ring there that I would trade one of my kids for (JUST KIDDING!!). They have a very good selection of rings in those larger sizes.

For example, they showed me two cushion cut rings of around 3 carats and it was amazing how much larger the stone faced up in one vs. the other. The best way to buy a diamond is to educate yourself and see as much as you can in person before you buy. Since you are in a big city, it shouldn''t be a problem at all. Not sure when your anniversary is but good luck and keep us posted. We would love to see the final ring. We pretty much love any ring, especially with those big honkers in them. :)
 
Date: 10/1/2006 7:32:26 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 10/1/2006 10:17:25 AM
Author:SKR
It''s my 10th wedding anniversary and I would like to buy my wife a princess cut diamond as a surprise present. I have zero experience of diamonds (apart from looking at the odd ring now and again) so I am grateful for discovering these forums.

I have a budget of $45k max and would like to get appoximately a 4.0ct stone. I have been reading about cut / clarity / colour etc and I now understand the individual concepts involved. What I dont understand however is the relationship between them and I would therefore would be grateful for some advice.

I know (after browsing prices) that to get a 4ct stone within my budget, I can get either a decent colour or a decent clarity but not both.

What I would like to know is that given the size requirement and the budget what would you guys/girls look for if you were in my position ? Also what are the ideal dimensions of a princess cut diamond ?

I have found this stone - http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=10452256 but I am concerned that it''s an SI2 which will probably show up marks to the naked eye - the last thing I need is for my wife or her friends to spot them !!!!

Apologies if I sound like an idiot - when it comes to diamonds I am pretty useless.
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I think you are on the right track. With a stone of this size I would go with a higher colour/lower clarity for myself. Perhaps you could even go down to an F and up to an SI1. I would contact Whiteflash and see if these inclusions are visible to the naked eye..... And BTW, Happy 10th Anniversary! What a great gift you are planning!
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Thats where I am heading. I spoke to a lovely lady from Whiteflash today - she is going to search for a stone for me. She aso sent me the certificate on the 4 carat princess - it''s an SI2 E colour stone but the certificate is pretty useless to a novice like me. She will find out tomorrow if the stone is eye clean.
 
Date: 10/2/2006 3:06:31 PM
Author: Allisonfaye
I just wanted to chime in to make a comment here. You sound like a fabulous husband and your wife is lucky to have you. What a thoughtful gift you are getting! But....forgive me if I am out of line...it seems like you are not really sure of your wife's taste and you are planning on spending a very large amount of money. There are a lot of people (myself included) who are not particularly fond of the 'crushed glass' appearance of a princess cut diamond. Maybe you are sure she loves PC's and you just haven't said so here. Same for the pears.

If you are completely surprising her, you may want to make sure that you pick a vendor that has a solid exchange policy and a nice selection on the off chance it is not her dream ring.

Again, please forgive me but I hate to see anyone spend that kind of $$ and not get exactly what the woman wants.

If I were in London ( I wish I was right now :), I would go check out Graff diamonds at least to see what appeals to you in terms of ring designs. They have become my favorite store here in Chicago. They have a three carat cushion cut ring there that I would trade one of my kids for (JUST KIDDING!!). They have a very good selection of rings in those larger sizes.

For example, they showed me two cushion cut rings of around 3 carats and it was amazing how much larger the stone faced up in one vs. the other. The best way to buy a diamond is to educate yourself and see as much as you can in person before you buy. Since you are in a big city, it shouldn't be a problem at all. Not sure when your anniversary is but good luck and keep us posted. We would love to see the final ring. We pretty much love any ring, especially with those big honkers in them. :)
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Alison - no need to apologise - the points you raise are valid and important. You are right, I only have a slight idea of what shape she prefers. Her sister who has a diamond collection to die for, is telling me to go for a princess.

I want to keep my wife out of the search as I love the look on her face when she gets a pleasant surprise - asking her to choose would kill it for me. I do not want to buy a round shape stone as she already has those as well as a pair of trillions. What I do know is whatever I get she is not the type of person who will be dissapointed with a present (regardless of cost etc).

I am going Debeers and Cartier this week to look at some stones. I had forgotten about Graf in Bond St so thanks for the reminder. As you know they are all very expensive for what they offer - I bought a Cartier solitaire for my wife about 5 years ago and the list price was very very expensive - I only got it as I knew the store director and I got a huge discount. Unfortunately that is not an option now as he has moved on.
 
SKR, I just want to reiterate the sentiment here that I think you are a wonderful husband to do this. And I hope your wife knows just how lucky she is. Some of us will only dream of being handed such a gift.
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I just wanted to ask if you have considered an Emerald Cut? I far prefer these to a Princess - just my opinion - but I was thinking a fab EC in that size would be so classic and gorgeous....

Also ditto my friend Ellen - you are indeed a thoughtful and wonderful Husband to gift your wife this way...
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I haven''t researched Graff in terms of price. I am sure they are very pricey. I know that they do ''discount'' off their listed prices. I asked what one of the cushion rings would ''really sell for'' and he knocked off about 30% as I recall. I don''t know if that would be it in terms of negotiation or not. I was mainly suggesting them for ideas since they carry larger stone rings, which sometimes can be hard to find.
 
Thanks for all the positive comments ladies.

I have been doing a lot of searching over the last few days without a huge amount of luck. $40k for a 4ct stone with a decent colour is simply not enough. Very few SI2 stones seem to be eye clean so it has to be an SI1 at a minimum. Taking SI1 stones, $40k gets you into the H/I colour range.

I have decided to go for a pear - I think my wife will prefer the shape over a princess cut. So what do people think of a 4ct SI1 I coloured pear shaped diamond ? Doesnt sound so appealing but I am just looking at numbers.

In my travels through the net, I have found this tear drop shaped baby -

- 4.13ct. I colour, SI1
- GIA cert
- Depth 60.1%
- Table 60%
- No culet
- Dimensions 14.66 x 8.94 x 5.37 (length to width ratio of 1.64)
- Very good polish
- Very good symmetry

I am trying to get hold of the GIA certificate but your opinions will be gratefully received.
 
I think she''ll love the pear too!

Here''s a chart on pear cuts to help you along, I know nothing about them, except they''re pretty. Hopefully some pear people will show up to help.

pearchart100.jpg
 
Hi, SKR...

I think a pear is a great choice for your anniversary surprise, elegant and so different from rounds. I didn't mention this before, but for some reason that I can't fathom, princesses are my least favorite cut...

I can't comment on specific stats, but in general I prefer 'chubbier' pears over elongated ones, especially for a ring. Also...watch out for the "bow tie effect".

Two thoughts: Since pears do face up bigger than many other cuts, I wouldn't be too "married" to the 4-carat concept. You could come down a bit in size and still have a sustantial and impressive honker!
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Also...I do hope you have another budget set aside for mounting your stone. Such a treasure deserves something special! As usual (for me anyway) Leon Mege comes to mind...

widget

PS: If you haven't already...do a search here for "pear"...you'll find tons of threads on the subject...what to look for, etc etc...good luck!
 
Hello there,

I read the thread with much interest as recently my husband bought me a 3.02 brilliant round cut stone as a 10th wedding anniversary present which is absolutely gorgeous (well, I am thinking of exchanging it for something of a higher colour - but that is another story altogether). I myself come from the UK (London) though my husband and I currently live in Singapore. I was the one doing all the research for about 6 months and even went to Antwerp and also a diamond exhibition in Singapore. I eventually went to Hong Kong to purchase the stone. I have to say first that London is a very expensive place to buy diamonds (the VAT alone accounts for a huge percentage), whilst the internet is an extremely decent place to buy a quality diamond (which yours certainly will be), if you''re willing to deal with the risk of having something so expensive delivered to you and maybe having to return it should you and/ or your wife not be completely happy with it. Antwerp, I found, esp. if you can contact some dealers before you make the trip, has some extremely good deals, and I personally prefer the GIA stones over the HRD ones (the latter is entirely personal preference as most people in Asia do not like, or even heard of, HRD).

As another reader mentioned, Bluenile does operate in the UK and that maybe in a good place to start with. I''ve also found diamonds.com to have a very extensive range and reasonably priced diamonds too.

As to the shape, I also went through a very long process going back and forth between princess cut (which is very "funky" and popular these days), emerald (which is very classy but shows up the colour and clarity very easily) and asscher cut (which is extremely elegant - think of the Taylor Burton diamond - and which is actually my most favourite of all "fancy cuts", but tends to look the smallest as I''ve found them very thick and have the least "spread" - a fancy lingo for how large or small a diamond looks). In the end, we''ve both decided on the round brilliant cut as it has the biggest spread. So for 4 carat or slightly above, a princess cut''s measurements are around 9mm or less whilst a RB''s would be 10mm or above; and believe you me, you WILL notice the size difference.

Also, the RB, esp. if cut very well (like in GIA Excellent cut, or preferably also with Excellent Polish and Excellent Symmetry) or AGS triple "0"s, can "hide" the inclusions (ie. be "eye clean" even if it is an SI1 or SI2) and will "face up" whiter, ie. will look whiter when you look down at the table which is once it is set in a ring. A glass-look cut like princess and especially emerald will show inclusions, unless it is of a VVS clarity (and face it, how many of us out there actually buy VVS?).

Hope this helps.

Lien
 
For a pear that size, I would have to go up in color. A large diamond shows more color than a small and a pear shows more color than most other cuts. Many pears have a yellowish tip, as this is where the color is most evident (from the face up). I find this really unattractive. I too would consider going down in size. A 3.5 carat or 3.75 carat pear is a HUGE diamond. As mentioned, look out for the bow tie, which can be distracting and take away from the beauty of the diamond.
 
Yes, a pear shape, if not cut well, will show the "bow-tie" effect which is pretty yukky! I being a small person, have small fingers (makes sense, he he!! :-) considered a pear, for about 2 mins, as you''d need long slender fingers for this shape. Same goes for marquise.

As for black diamonds, I am not so sure!! Too unusual and as another reader said, too masculine! Iv''e seen them in person and didn''t like them at all.

Fancy yellow can be very beautiful but it is a very personal thing, unlike white diamonds which seem to have universal appeal. Also, be aware of heat-treated colours.

Pink is probably the most beautiful colour of all but prohibitively expensive. I recently saw a 1.30 ( or 1.4 carat, I think?) carat pale pink (which is very beatiful but actually not even the most beautiful of pinks) and that was on sale for USD 130k or thereabout.
 
Date: 10/6/2006 1:07:30 PM
Author: jazmine
For a pear that size, I would have to go up in color. A large diamond shows more color than a small and a pear shows more color than most other cuts. Many pears have a yellowish tip, as this is where the color is most evident (from the face up). I find this really unattractive. I too would consider going down in size. A 3.5 carat or 3.75 carat pear is a HUGE diamond. As mentioned, look out for the bow tie, which can be distracting and take away from the beauty of the diamond.
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The vendor is telling me that the stone is eye clean and very brilliant. It also seems to match the ideal specs posted by Ellen above. Both polish and sym are classified as very good. I will ask about the bow tie. Getting very confused around this. Certificate attached below.
 

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Date: 10/6/2006 11:30:00 AM
Author: widget
Hi, SKR...

I think a pear is a great choice for your anniversary surprise, elegant and so different from rounds. I didn''t mention this before, but for some reason that I can''t fathom, princesses are my least favorite cut...

I can''t comment on specific stats, but in general I prefer ''chubbier'' pears over elongated ones, especially for a ring. Also...watch out for the ''bow tie effect''.

Two thoughts: Since pears do face up bigger than many other cuts, I wouldn''t be too ''married'' to the 4-carat concept. You could come down a bit in size and still have a sustantial and impressive honker!
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Also...I do hope you have another budget set aside for mounting your stone. Such a treasure deserves something special! As usual (for me anyway) Leon Mege comes to mind...

widget

PS: If you haven''t already...do a search here for ''pear''...you''ll find tons of threads on the subject...what to look for, etc etc...good luck!
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Thanks - pear is def the one. I have been looking at mounts and I really like the look of this one by Mark Morrell- what do you think ?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-help-finding-setting-for-2ct-pear.12482/=
 
The prongs are a little stalky for my taste? Maybe the Vatche Royal Crown for pear?
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I would definitely give up weight (3.5?) to get a better color, G+? A large pear will be lovely.
 
Date: 10/6/2006 6:46:46 PM
Author: SKR

Date: 10/6/2006 11:30:00 AM
Author: widget
Hi, SKR...

I think a pear is a great choice for your anniversary surprise, elegant and so different from rounds. I didn''t mention this before, but for some reason that I can''t fathom, princesses are my least favorite cut...

I can''t comment on specific stats, but in general I prefer ''chubbier'' pears over elongated ones, especially for a ring. Also...watch out for the ''bow tie effect''.

Two thoughts: Since pears do face up bigger than many other cuts, I wouldn''t be too ''married'' to the 4-carat concept. You could come down a bit in size and still have a sustantial and impressive honker!
3.gif


Also...I do hope you have another budget set aside for mounting your stone. Such a treasure deserves something special! As usual (for me anyway) Leon Mege comes to mind...

widget

PS: If you haven''t already...do a search here for ''pear''...you''ll find tons of threads on the subject...what to look for, etc etc...good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks - pear is def the one. I have been looking at mounts and I really like the look of this one by Mark Morrell- what do you think ?

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/need-help-finding-setting-for-2ct-pear.12482/=
Click to expand...
I think it''s beautiful. MM is a one of a kind, the ring (whatever he might do) would be drool worthy.
 
Ok I have got a pic of the I SI1 diamond. The dealer is telling me just ot concentrate on the shape and to ignore the yellow colour bits - the picture does not give a true reflection of the colour. The dealer seems very honest and is very helpful but she hasnt seen it. Her comments are based on what the seller is telling her - its eye clean, supposed to be very brilliant and faces up white. She can bring it in house for an assessment, more pics and so on but it will cost me approx $200. If it isnt as described then it costs me nothing. I am still deciding whether to ask her to bring it in house but in the meantime I have asked her to look for other diamonds - G / H colours preferably.

What do you feel about this diamond given the picture and the certificate attached above? The depth and table seem right on the money and its vg vg. I would have bought it right now if it was a H or better colour !!

G11707.jpg pict of 4.13.jpg
 
The shape is very appealing. And it is quite hard to find VG symmetry and polish in a fancy. I would be very interested in seeing the color and the inclusions. Will you be getting the diamond independently appraised? I would most definetly do so. The company has a 30 day return policy so you have plenty of time to do so.
 
Jazmine - good advice as I didnt think of getting it independantly appraised.

If it doesnt have the yellow colour as depicted in the picture (some of it is very yellow in places per the picture) and it really does face up white in the picture then it definately worth considering. The table and depth and LW ratio are 1A (you can see I have been reading up on all the advice given so far
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) and as you say the polish and sym are both VG.
 
The shape is indeed pretty. If it really doesn''t show up that tinged, and has minimal bow tie, you might have found a keeper. But I really think you''re going to have to see it in person to know...
 
Thanks Ellen and Jazmine. Its just the yellow that is worrying me. How does it appear in the pic if it faces up white ?? It weirdly has a couple of yellow spots around the middle of the stone. Very confusing.

Jazmine - the GIA certificate attached in my earlier post above details the inclusions - how bad do they look ?

I went to the Graf shop by the way. Way out of my league.....for those of you that have bucket loads of money please see the link below. It's probably one of the best high net worth jewellery shops in the world. Makes Cartier and Tiffany etc etc seem like paupers alley.

http://www.graffdiamonds.com/flash.php
 
They have also found two other diamonds. The first one is interesting, H colour is better and it faces up large but the table is only 51%. What does inscribed mean ?

The second sounds a touch fat to me.

P 4.03 H SI1 GIA 58.8 51 TN-TK N VG G F 14.48x9.11x5.36 1.59:1 INSCRIBED
P 4.02 I VS2 GIA 56.2 59 STK-VTK N VG VG F 13.24x9.31x5.23 1.42:1
 
I like the numbers on the first pear best but with fancies, you really should not go just by the numbers. A diamond can have great numbers and still have a bow tie or just not give off a lot of sparkle or scintillation. As far a judging the inclusions, I would want to speak with someone directly who has the diamond in front of them. The GIA inclusion plot is really not something I would put much stock into. Sometimes those maps look terrible and the diamond is still eye clean and vice versa. To get a SI1 4 carat pear to be eye clean could take some searching. I would really try to see it in person. I always recommend going with a vendor who will ship the diamond to an appraiser before you buy so you can see it and then decide what you want to do. But, as mentioned earlier, they do have a 30 day return policy if that isn't possible. I don't think Union Diamond ships before you buy though I could be mistaken.

Inscribed means the GIA # is inscribed on the girdle. This way you can identify your diamond by checking the number with a loupe or microscope.
 
Yes the numbers on the original diamond seem to stack up better. The dealer is WF. Once they get it in what kind of things should I be asking for ? Of course I will ask for more pics and speak with their Gemologist.

Regarding the setting (once I find the right stone!) I think given my location, Mark Morell is out. I am thinking of a vanilla platinum diamond paved ring like Tiffany''s below. I could get black diamonds as the side stones !!

Tiffyone.jpg
 
Personally I prefer black sapphires rather than black diamonds - less like pencil lead and fewer inclusions.

If you can''t find your stone o the net, I''d consider a trip to Antwerp and have a look in person. The diamond quarter there is great.
 
I will check out black saphires.

One more question (sorry!) - the cert for the diamond is dated August 2005 which makes it over a year old. Is this considered to be too old - I mean why woudlnt it have sold by now ? Am I thinking about it too much ?
 
I would not worry about the cert being only a year old. It is quite an expensive diamond. Where are you located?
 
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