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Looking for ~2ct, how much can I compromise on cut?

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tfmd99

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
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I am in the market for an engagement ring. Total budget is $16.5k. Would like to get close to 8mm / 2ct for the center stone. This is the type of setting she likes: Solitaire with stones 3/4 around the ring, in Platinum - http://www.nhasec.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/solitaire-engagement-rings-with-diamond-wedding-band.jpg - my guess is I could get this done for ~$1.5k?

She wants as large a diamond as possible, but doesn't know much about cut quality and light return. I am aware that Whiteflash and Brian Gavin offer some of the best stones around, but given the priority to maximize diameter, I am trying to figure out how much I can compromise on cut.

What would be the difference between a perfect Whiteflash ACA or even BG blue stone and a generic AGS0 stone? Is it just that the light return, while the same in magnitude, is more chaotic?

I've been shown plenty of diamonds within my budget at a local jeweler but they hadn't even heard of ASET images or ideal scope, so I'd love some help to see what I can get online.

What do you guys think of Ritani? They seem to have good pricing on loose diamonds. Like, is there anything wrong with this stone - https://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-1-76-Carat-G-color-AGSL-certified/D-W3N615??? How can they sell a stone like this at that price? Do you know if they can provide ASET images for me? What else should I be considering?

What about white flash's expert and premium select stones? What do I lose by going with that over an ACA? How do their non ACA's compare with the Ritani AGS0 I linked to above?

Thanks so much!!
 
ACAs and BGDs will be H&A stones. A regular AGS you find any where may, or may not be H&A.

That one you are looking at is not going to be anywhere near H&A but a bright/nice stone none the less.

Here is what JA has to offer in an AGS in your budget.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.79-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-280487

GIA stone with nice numbers
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.72-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-376790

Whiteflash Expert Selections usually just miss ACA by something fairly small (like a heart being off) etc. You have to look at
each particular stone to figure out what it is (or easier just to ask why it missed). These stones are usually very nice stones
at a nice price. I'm not exactly sure what the Premium diamonds are...the 3 that I looked at were all AGS but were not 000,
they all had a 1 for one of the items so I think they are the next step down from Expert Selection which I think are still all 000?
Probably a good thing to ask WF.

Edit - this Premium from WF is also in your budget. You would need to talk to them and ask why it only got the Premium rating.
Also, I think the ACAs may have a different trade-up/buy back then the Expert Selection and the Premium so you would want to
ask about that just for your information.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3045759.htm
 
How about an old cut?
If she doesn't know much about "cut quality" and just wants a round, you can look for an antique style that would be more forgiving in color so you could drop down to a J or so and still face up white.

Let me look around see what I can find
 
I wouldn't compromise on color or weight. Go as large and wellcut as possible. I would compromise on color and clarity.

WF has an ACA 2.038 carat, K/SI1 for a little over $15K. Diameter of 8.15 mm. That's big!

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3225748.htm

Put that diamond in a White Flash Legato Pave, or Knife Edge Pave, and you're in business.
 
That's a great option for the OP, I'd snap it up in his shoes, it will be beautiful, and in a plain setting as a solitaire, I doubt the K will bitter her or anyone else.
 
I love a k but in that size the color will be noticeable. And its going in platinum? I wouldn't do it if I was purchasing it for someone else.
 
Thanks so much for all your replies!

So what exactly do I lose, visually speaking, by going with AGS0 that's not H&A?

If I buy from WF, does it make sense to get it pre-set with the solitaire setting she likes? So they could match the side stones to the center stone? Or is it more worth my while to have it sent as a loose stone so I could take it to local jewelers to compare to other stones?

I'm a little nervous to go down to K color..I feel like I'd be more comfortable going down in size to ~ 1.8 to hold I as the lowest color I'd be happy buying.


EDIT:
What is the general consensus about Ritani?
 
tfmd99|1433116907|3883453 said:
I'm a little nervous to go down to K color..I feel like I'd be more comfortable going down in size to ~ 1.8 to hold I as the lowest color I'd be happy buying.
Click to expand...
You're on an important point here. Although you'll notice a size difference between a 1.8 and a 2.0 are side-by-side, it's arguably less of an issue over time when it's by itself on the hand. The K you'll notice forever, and being a bigger stone the tint will be more obvious.

G and H is a sweet spot for many customers. Personally, I think of the four C's as sliders, like on a sound board. Dial up and dial down. Cut is first for many educated shoppers. Clarity, I dig VS1 or VS2, ensuring it's eye clean for the latter. Find the lowest color you are comfortable with and then get as big a stone as you can afford while maintaining the first three.

Remember that a diamond is just a transparent lump of crystallized carbon. What makes it special is how it's cut, it's lack of inclusions to allow good light return and aesthetic, and a lack of noticeable tint. Going much bigger and sacrificing the other C's for it is simply getting more of less. There are lots of big and lifeless diamonds out there.

That's not to say that's what you're doing here at all! But 2.0 carats is a magic number; a lot of cutters make subtle changes to strategy to make the weight, as there's a financial incentive to do so.

If you're willing to look around closer to the 1.8 carat range, you'll open up some other options in the other three C's while staying within your budget. :read:
 
I've placed this stone on hold: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6648884-1.82-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6648884&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I have 24 hours before it ships. I'm hoping you guys could take a look and tell me if you think it's a good buy.

The Hearts and ASET scope images seem good. The report indicates an extra facet on the girdle, as well as a natural, and probably the reason for the price. I'm assuming these can be hidden by the prongs?

If you see anything else totally wrong with the stone, or that the extra facet and natural can't be hidden by prongs well, I would deeply appreciate any comments and concerns :)

Thanks!

EDIT: Seems like GIA report disappeared from site after I placed on hold, so here it is
screen_shot_2015-05-31_at_9.png
screen_shot_2015-05-31_at_9_0.png
 
I'm not a diamond expert, but this diamond is very similar to mine. I have an 1.8 I GIA VS1 and I just want to say that I love it! I get so many compliments on it :) I think she would be very happy with this stone.
 
tfmd99|1433129831|3883529 said:
I've placed this stone on hold: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6648884-1.82-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6648884&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

I have 24 hours before it ships. I'm hoping you guys could take a look and tell me if you think it's a good buy.

The Hearts and ASET scope images seem good. The report indicates an extra facet on the girdle, as well as a natural, and probably the reason for the price. I'm assuming these can be hidden by the prongs?

If you see anything else totally wrong with the stone, or that the extra facet and natural can't be hidden by prongs well, I would deeply appreciate any comments and concerns :)

Thanks!

EDIT: Seems like GIA report disappeared from site after I placed on hold, so here it is
screen_shot_2015-05-31_at_9.png
screen_shot_2015-05-31_at_9_0.png
Click to expand...

If it is exceptionally cheap for its size it's likely a brown tinted diamond. Top light brown it looks like. B2C has sold a number of these in the past.

If you're worried about an K color ACA, then you should really worry about a brown tinted diamond.
 
$14.1k/$13.7k bank wire

Your guess about brown color was based on a low price, or from the image provided on B2C?
 
Image. Compare with photos of other H/I/J color diamonds on B2C's site and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Also, B2C has a history of selling these kinds of diamonds without informing the consumer (GIA report does not note). I would confirm brown tint before purchase. Know what you're getting into. See this thread:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-ritani-refusing-to-honor-their-price-match-policy.212639/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-ritani-refusing-to-honor-their-price-match-policy.212639/[/URL]
 
Heard back from the rep at B2C...

..."As per our in-house gemologist, this diamond has a beautiful white face and excellent luster."

I guess, worst case, I could send the loose stone back, per their 30 day return policy?

Is it possible the gray background color of the stone image is giving the light brown appearance?
 
That seems to be a very generic response that doesn't address the stone's tint (yellow, brown, or gray).

Although some folks prefer colorless diamonds and others don't mind a bit of tint, I do sometimes roll my eyes a bit at the casually ubiquitous phrase, "It faces up white."

A K is not a D. If it looked like a D, it would be a D. Color is graded face down; with a K you'll notice tint from the side and very likely from the top as well. That's not to say it's bad if you (a) like tint or (b) don't mind it.

But if your query were about whether it's yellow, brown, or gray, they didn't answer it. Actually, the phrase about facing white and having excellent luster just seems so boilerplate to me.

Rhino (Good Old Gold) has a nice video on YouTube about body tint: http://youtu.be/YizGfSIisJE

Hope that helps! :wavey:
 
Thanks Sir Guy!

Brown tint is definitely scary. The latest from B2C is a little more reassuring: "As per our diamond partner gemologist, this diamond does not have any visible color tint in it. However, I have requested our diamond partner to try and provide a face-down image of this diamond, and will email it to you by tomorrow."

Assuming the image of the stone while face down does not show any brown tint, how do all the other aspects fare, cut-wise and light performance-wise? What do you all think about the ASET, Ideal Scope, and Hearts images?

Thanks!
 
Images look good to me.
 
tfmd99|1433179534|3883756 said:
Thanks Sir Guy!

Brown tint is definitely scary. The latest from B2C is a little more reassuring: "As per our diamond partner gemologist, this diamond does not have any visible color tint in it. However, I have requested our diamond partner to try and provide a face-down image of this diamond, and will email it to you by tomorrow."

Assuming the image of the stone while face down does not show any brown tint, how do all the other aspects fare, cut-wise and light performance-wise? What do you all think about the ASET, Ideal Scope, and Hearts images?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Statement form B2C still doesn't say anything relevant. A well-cut, correctly graded GIA I color diamond should face up white. But from the side, or at an angle, a yellow, gray, brown or pink body color will be obvious. It has to have one of these body colors, that's the nature of diamonds. The three thousand dollar question is whether that undertone is yellow or brown.

Dropshippers!
 
I'll post the image they send me of the stone face down as soon as I receive it.

I sort of modeled a search based off of JEJ's find: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/aset-experts-novices-opinion-on-56-tbl-34-5-crn-40-8-pav.213109/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/aset-experts-novices-opinion-on-56-tbl-34-5-crn-40-8-pav.213109/[/URL] but with slightly different parameters (larger stone, lower color).

Obviously that stone is an F color, not an I, but I threw the two images side by side (I know, camera settings might have been different, diamond partner/wholesaler might have been different, diamond source probably different)...I dont believe JEJ complained about brown tinting. They dont look CRAZY different (from the top), but its obvious that JEJ's stone on the right is whiter/bluer (medium fluorescence as well).

compare_6.jpg
 
It's very difficult to get any meaningful conclusions about color or tint from digital photos of a round facing up.

Color is graded unmounted and face down precisely because white light return can mask the color. (This is also why most fancy colored diamonds are fancy shapes, whose white light return is weaker than a round brilliant's.)

Most stones tint towards yellow, but if they're avoiding the question or saying something that's presumably a pat answer ("It's an I but faces up white!") I'd be a little curious.

It's like if you're car shopping and ask, "I've heard this model has more frequent transmission problems before 50,000 miles. Is that true?" And they answer, "It gets good mileage." :doh:
 
Here are the face-down pictures. Obviously it's got a yellow tint because its I, but it doesn't look brown to me.

What do you all think? Worth it for the price?

I'd look for a platinum pave solitaire setting with a prong design that could hide most of the side so as to hide as much of the yellow tint as possible.

6648884__2_.jpg6648884.jpg6648884__1__.jpg
 
Beautiful!
 
Colour is a really subjective thing. If this doesn't bother you and you don't think it will bother her then that is the main thing. The cut looks great!

It looks like it would be too much tint in a MRB for me personally, and it would bother me more and more over time having it on my finger 24/7, but I am fairly colour sensitive and your intended may not be.

And maybe it is just my monitor, but I am really surprised to see this much yellow in a GIA graded "I"? It's as if the photographer was wearing a dandelion coloured shirt! Or maybe this explains the favourable pricing? If B2C has a good return policy and you are in the US, you could get it and see what it looks like to your eyes in your usual lighting and go from there.
 
EvangelineG|1433254245|3884155 said:
Colour is a really subjective thing. If this doesn't bother you and you don't think it will bother her then that is the main thing. The cut looks great!

It looks like it would be too much tint in a MRB for me personally, and it would bother me more and more over time having it on my finger 24/7, but I am fairly colour sensitive and your intended may not be.

And maybe it is just my monitor, but I am really surprised to see this much yellow in a GIA graded "I"? It's as if the photographer was wearing a dandelion coloured shirt! Or maybe this explains the favourable pricing? If B2C has a good return policy and you are in the US, you could get it and see what it looks like to your eyes in your usual lighting and go from there.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing. I know there could be different environments but attached is a comparison of AGS "H" (left) vs. "I" (right).
color.jpg
 
Well I bought the stone. B2C is a drop shipper so I should have it early next week. I'll post back with my thoughts. Worst case, I spent $20 to see it in person and will return it. Hopefully it doesn't actually look that yellow in California :pray:

Thanks for all your input!
 
Sorry for the late reply guys. The stone came, below are pictures. Would love your opinions! Basically, Did I overpay ($13.7k) for this stone? (Images got rotated when uploaded, sorry)

Planning to set in Solitaire Platinum Pave. Does not look yellow from the top, but just a little concerned about from the side when set...

img_0135-1.jpg
img_0136.jpg
E on bottom, my I on the top

img_0137.jpg
img_0138_0.jpg
My I on the bottom, E, another I on the top for comparison

img_0139.jpg
Other I on bottom, E, my I on top

img_0130.jpg
img_0127_1.jpg
Best pics I could get under the H&A scope..the iPhone camera added all the spokes in between the hearts

fullsizerender-2_6.jpg
 
Lovely pictures. I, personally, don't care what it looks like from the bottom. I understand that grading is based on viewing from the bottom but everyone will be viewing from the top. Your 1st pic where it shows from the top, both E & I stones look lovely. You will be the best judge. Good luck!
 
Personally, for a MRB, I would opt for the best cut quality, and drop the colour to H/I range or may go down to J, with clarity VS2/SI1 or even SI2 providing it is eye clean, and look for the biggest stone I can afford.

I would not drop the colour beyond H/I/J as I only wear white metal.

However, I am no expert, just a consumer and long time lurker of this board until I joined recently, and prefer ECs rather than MRBs for diamonds.

Good luck with your search.

DK :))
 
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