London. Bombs...

[Rank Amateur]

How horrible. My heart goes out to these people.



The G8 is not significant. It''s not the Olympics or Iraq. Or Afghanistan. It is free Judeo-Christian western society which is their enemy.

Bastards.


It all makes me wonder what these crazy srekcuf would ask for if they could actually be granted the ability to seriously affect western society. Death to us all? Convert us to Islam? Muzzles and shrouds for the women and (nasty) beards for the men? Elimination of Jews and Christians? No electronics or western inventions? Polygamy? Do they want our rich farmland? Our forests and trees? What is it? I''m guessing that they don''t even know. They might have a wish list (i.e. death to Israel) but what is their overall goal? Virgins all around?

Hopefully we can lop most of the heads off this many-headed snake.

 

[Rube]

It seems like everytime I refresh the newspage, the number confirmed dead goes up.

Prayers from here too. I only wish I could imagine an end.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 12:18:44 PM
Author: IrishEyes
The best thing the leaders of these nations, including ours can do is to unite together and send a message to the terrorists: we will not back down. We will not run. We will not let you bully us and terrorize our citizens in order for you to dominate and spread a message of evil.


I have been to London in the past, and I have a special place in my heart for Europe in general. Just as we united together as citizens during 9/11, I know they will band together in their time of need. I they will be stronger because of it. I am so sorry this happened. Only a coward would attack innocent civilians on their way to work, getting their morning coffees, etc.

I agree.. and I thought that this is what the US was doing... Perhaps others will join us in saying it now...

It is horrible that this happened. I feel very sorry for all of the people that were affected by this event. Told my DH that it is a real b*tch when it affects a place that you feel a connection to and care about.

He is Canadian. He is also a Bristish Historian and I think he connects more with what happened today than 911. I pointed out the fact that it is a little more intense when you feel like someone has done this in your own home....''

Hope the countries will take an active part in tracking down these cowards.

 

[Mara]

We have friends in London who have a new baby.....Greg emailed him to find out if they are okay, but we have not heard anything back yet.

I can only imagine it''s chaos over there.

 

[icekid]

very sad here as well. and all of this in the name of RELIGION?! it''s absurd. I don''t even understand what they hope to accomplish, other than further uniting people against them.

thoughts and prayers to Britain...

 

[partgypsy]

I have a lump in my throat seeing this happen. It''s just terrible. My heartfelt thoughts go out to those in Great Britain.

 

[caligal]

My best friend and husband are there- so I am praying they are o.k. I worked for a summer right by where one of the bombs went off- and last summer, today exactly I was on the tube at that stop! I just pray for all the loss and wish we could find that Osama and put all of those terrorists away for a long time....

 

[MissAva]

Muslims, ture muslims are nto the ones doing this IMO. They belive that we are all people of the book. I am so confused I have studied religion even took and religion and terriosim course. Still I just dont understand. How does mass murder show that you are Gods people? How does it show that you are the just cuase? This makes no sense, why dont the countries in the middle east help? Why do they support those who make a mockery of their holy book. I just dont understand.

 

[MissAva]

Rueters just updated...they now say 50 dead adn at least 700 injured.

 

[movie zombie]

and another perspective: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050707/why_london_why_now.php

my heart hurts for all civilian victims of war whether it is in london, spain, new york, afganistan, iraq, israel, palestine, northern ireland, columbia, etc.

unfortunately, the world is not safer because of removing saddam. he wasn''t the problem with terrorism in the first place. i believe the world is less safe now than it was two years ago and it is my fear that london is the first of many such events to come.

to use the war on terror as an excuse to go to war in iraq was a serious mistake. to not finish up the war on terror in afganistan and get bin laden when he was actually found was an even more serious mistake. of course, one could argue it was a mistake that we in the west created bin laden in the first place.

while the western world speaks of uniting to fight terror, i wonder just what that really means.....more invasions into soverign countries? more patriot acts? more militarization of our local police forces? those tactics have not worked.

i pray for us all.

peace, movie zombie

 

[MissAva]

MZ- it shoudl as if you are justifying the murder or innocent people. I am sure you dont mean to.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM
Author: movie zombie


i pray for us all.


peace, movie zombie

Don''t.. pray for us all... pray for those that feel the same as you do.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 2:16:42 PM
Author: Matatora
Muslims, ture muslims are nto the ones doing this IMO. They belive that we are all people of the book.

I agree, Matatora. [Although usually we do not agree .] Please do not forget the acceptance of the Ottoman Empire, a Muslim religious empire. The Islamic fanatics doing this violence are not the only Muslims in the world nor do they represent all Muslims throughout history.

I reiterate that we would have been better off staying the course in Afghanistan and keeping our sites on bin Laden and the Taliban rather than going off on the tangent in Iraq. The United States and Great Britain have a right to self-defense against Islamic terrorists like bin Laden. I wish we could put all our energy into that fight!

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:02:51 PM
Author: Feydakin

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM
Author: movie zombie
unfortunately, the world is not safer because of removing saddam. he wasn''t the problem with terrorism in the first place. i believe the world is less safe now than it was two years ago and it is my fear that london is the first of many such events to come.

to use the war on terror as an excuse to go to war in iraq was a serious mistake. to not finish up the war on terror in afganistan and get bin laden when he was actually found was an even more serious mistake. of course, one could argue it was a mistake that we in the west created bin laden in the first place.

while the western world speaks of uniting to fight terror, i wonder just what that really means.....more invasions into soverign countries? more patriot acts? more militarization of our local police forces? those tactics have not worked.

i pray for us all.

You''re right.. It''s our fault again.. Let''s lay down all of our weapons, throw open everyone''s borders, and just give everybody a great big ole hug.. I''m sure that will help make the world a safer place..

The rest of this argument belongs in a different thread entirely..

please reread when you''re less emotional. perhaps you will note that i make the distinction of going after bin laden and not finishing the job. you will also note that i make the distinction between fighting a war on terror as opposed to using it for other agendas.

i''m so glad you are editor and chief of this tread and determine who may and may not respond and who may say what.

it is not enough to lash out in anger at the horror of these civilian deaths. it is time to respect those freedoms that you seem to think the terrorists are trying to deny us when it appears to me you are the one trying to deny it to me. are you a terrorist?!

yes, i will pray for us all.

peace, movie zombie

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:21:54 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM

Author: movie zombie



i pray for us all.



peace, movie zombie

Don''t.. pray for us all... pray for those that feel the same as you do.

Mine, that is a truly unkind and ungenerous statement.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:21:54 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM
Author: movie zombie


i pray for us all.


peace, movie zombie

Don''t.. pray for us all... pray for those that feel the same as you do.

and how do i feel, Mine?! please explain this statement as i don''t understand it at all. what assumptions have you made?

yes, i will pray for you and me and for those that have died and for those that loved them....and i will pray for a future that doesn''t include such horror. isn''t freedom of religion a wonderful thing?!

peace, movie zombie

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:01:35 PM
Author: Matatora
MZ- it shoudl as if you are justifying the murder or innocent people. I am sure you dont mean to.

no, i don''t justify the murder of innocent people....in any country. so what did i write that made it sound like i do?

peace, movie zombie

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:35:57 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 7/7/2005 3:21:54 PM

Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM


Author: movie zombie




i pray for us all.




peace, movie zombie

Don't.. pray for us all... pray for those that feel the same as you do.

Mine, that is a truly unkind and ungenerous statement.

Thank you for your concern AGBF>

YOu know what.. I really don't care if it was ungernerous. The problem is that we are so quick to point out how heartless the people are that do not agree with the 'we are the world' senerio.

We stand behind a phrase that we will pray for someone else. So someone is going to pray for me... Don't pray for me when I fear what will happen to this world should the 'prayers' way really happen.

When someone who thinks that Saddam was not a threat offers to pray for those that beleive that he was.. then it is a little... scary really. I suppose that the Kurds needed to be killed and Saddams terrorism was not quite that important.

If we had done this another way and London would have been attacked.. then I beleive that many here would be saying that it was the US's fault for not taking out the people that are terrorist and not taking out out supporters of the organization.

It is really a no win situation. To predict that London was just the first of many events.. well that is wonderful insight. I think that it will be the one of many unfortunately. Because terrorists are pissed. They are pissed because we will not just go away. They are pissed because people do not give up.

The logic makes no sense. So the terriosts are mad because we are in Iraq? So we should NOT be in Iraq because it makes the terrorists mad? Oh.. we certainly do not want to anger them... they may do something like fly an airplane into a building or something.

Have we pulled out of Afganistan? Have we left there? So, the United States is no longer looking for Bin Landen? We have completely left the country? But if we stay in Afghanistan then we would have made the terrorist mad? And I repeat.. we certainly do not want to make them mad, do we.. If we do.. they might blow up a tube.

I do not fear religion, MZ... I believe that religion is an intergral part of my life as it is for many. But in the hands of the wrong people, religion is quite dangerous.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Wow!!! How scary!! Thoughts and prayers go out to all the families and Londoners...just when the thought of peace would be prominent with London being given the 2012 Olympics...coincidence??

I''m kinda scared as we''re supposed to be going to London in 26 days

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 4:05:22 PM
Author: AChiOAlumna
Wow!!! How scary!! Thoughts and prayers go out to all the families and Londoners...just when the thought of peace would be prominent with London being given the 2012 Olympics...coincidence??


I''m kinda scared as we''re supposed to be going to London in 26 days

Here Here AChi... I understand your fear.. I am sure all will be well... Are you going for vacation or business? My Dh LOVES it there. HE says that it is an amzing place. we plan to go there next summer. I am excited.

 

[AGBF]

If I understand Steve, I agree with him. Maybe this thread can be about the loss the British suffered rather than about our disagreements. (If I didn''t understand Steve, I still think this is a good idea.) Those of us who want to argue know where to do it.

Deb

 

[ammayernyc]

I don''t know whether to feel extremely safe or extremely worried -- I live in NYC and work across the street from City Hall. It''s always well protected, but today there were two cops on every corner... just crazy. I was too afraid to take the subway to work today, and I''m not sure what to do to get home.

I work about 5 blocks from the World Trade Center site so I am reminded daily of the horrors that occured there. I just couldn''t watch any more tv news this morning. I''m still sick over it. I had to resort to my post 9/11 television watching -- food channel. It was the only thing I could handle watching.

I truly feel for the people in London, as I did and still do for the people in Madrid. I stopped blaming people a long time ago. I always skip the anger phase of grief. I hope that people can find comfort and safety in whatever will help them -- religion, family, furry little monsters (ie pets)...

 

[fire&ice]

I'm hearing some "pundints" say this doesn't sound like regular mode of Al Q. Something about claiming fairly immediately with great detail. The website (secret society of European Al Q - or the likes of it) isn't giving credible details. Don't know - certainly sounds like them to me.

Also, I want to mention what the news reports said this morning. They said that the "operation & swiftness of response team was outstanding at two things - saving lives & not evolking panic. Also, the reporter in London was applauding the sane and calm of the Londoner's.

To me, Terrorist want to create one thing - TERROR. If they do, they win. DON'T LET THEM. Go - enjoy your visit to London. Be alert. Be careful. But, don't be terrorized.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:49:53 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 3:35:57 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 7/7/2005 3:21:54 PM

Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 2:48:17 PM


Author: movie zombie




i pray for us all.




peace, movie zombie

Don''t.. pray for us all... pray for those that feel the same as you do.

Mine, that is a truly unkind and ungenerous statement.

Thank you for your concern AGBF>

YOu know what.. I really don''t care if it was ungernerous. The problem is that we are so quick to point out how heartless the people are that do not agree with the ''we are the world'' senerio.

We stand behind a phrase that we will pray for someone else. So someone is going to pray for me... Don''t pray for me when I fear what will happen to this world should the ''prayers'' way really happen.

When someone who thinks that Saddam was not a threat offers to pray for those that beleive that he was.. then it is a little... scary really. I suppose that the Kurds needed to be killed and Saddams terrorism was not quite that important.

If we had done this another way and London would have been attacked.. then I beleive that many here would be saying that it was the US''s fault for not taking out the people that are terrorist and not taking out out supporters of the organization.

It is really a no win situation. To predict that London was just the first of many events.. well that is wonderful insight. I think that it will be the one of many unfortunately. Because terrorists are pissed. They are pissed because we will not just go away. They are pissed because people do not give up.

The logic makes no sense. So the terriosts are mad because we are in Iraq? So we should NOT be in Iraq because it makes the terrorists mad? Oh.. we certainly do not want to anger them... they may do something like fly an airplane into a building or something.

Have we pulled out of Afganistan? Have we left there? So, the United States is no longer looking for Bin Landen? We have completely left the country? But if we stay in Afghanistan then we would have made the terrorist mad? And I repeat.. we certainly do not want to make them mad, do we.. If we do.. they might blow up a tube.

I do not fear religion, MZ... I believe that religion is an intergral part of my life as it is for many. But in the hands of the wrong people, religion is quite dangerous.

assumptions, Ms Mine, assumptions.

but, yes, we are no longer looking for bin laden....this administration announced that some time ago.

my objections to going into iraq and staying there have nothing to do with fear of terrorism reprisal. it has everything to do with politics which were discussed in other threads.

yes, religion in the hands of the wrong people is quite dangerous....no matter where one lives in the world.

my fear has noting to do with cowering in fear of terrorism. it is the fear/regret that there will be more civilian deaths, that our civil liberties will be further eroded, and that countries will be invaded under false pretenses all in the name of protecting me from terrorism.

i do fear that my grandchildren will inherit a world full of war, death, lack of clean water and air. and i pray that they do not become senseless civilian casualties.

and, yes, Mine, we are the world....we''re acting it out in this thread.

what is it exactly that you think i''m praying for that you should be afraid?

peace, movie zombie

 

[MissAva]

MZ- Steve has already said all that needs to be said.
AP- I know how you feel, I was in my first semester of college for 9/11 Emory is just a short distance from the CDC at first all I was thinking was that it could be next and what sort of things would be realeased into the world? Then I rememberd that my daddy was supposed to be NYC that day and I began to panic, badly. The phones in NJ were down and I couldnt reach anyone. There is little worse then not knowing you mind fills with all sorts of horrors. When I came home for thanksgivng my father flew me and I cried to see how the skyline had changed. Everytime I come home I see what ahs been lost and it makes me sad. So many people from our town died. A friend of the family was on the phone with her husband when he died. Sometimes I think people forget becuase time has passed. When Rudy was on today giving his words of comfort I was so impressed with how he spoke of the strength of Lodon in WW2 and how that had helped the people of NYC.
My heart goes out to the people of the UK. They will be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[AGBF]

I realize it is presumptuous to tell people where and when they may speak, but once again I would ask that the discussion of foreign policy be discussed in "Around the World". That would allow this thread to be a place where people can mourn an event without having to discuss its political causes and ramifications.

And, yes, again: I agree it is presumptuous of me. Everyone here has the right to speak where he wishes since the whole idea of freedom of speech is that one can speak where he wants and rebut where he wants.

It is just my opinion that there could be a place for mourning and a place for discussion. I am thinking of the Pricescope community and its need for cohesion over those matters about which we do agree more than I am about individual rights.

Deb

 

[IrishEyes]

I agree Deb, the political side of the discussion should be moved to that forum....

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 7/7/2005 4:45:39 PM
Author: Matatora
MZ- Steve has already said all that needs to be said.
AP- I know how you feel, I was in my first semester of college for 9/11 Emory is just a short distance from the CDC at first all I was thinking was that it could be next and what sort of things would be realeased into the world? Then I rememberd that my daddy was supposed to be NYC that day and I began to panic, badly. The phones in NJ were down and I couldnt reach anyone. There is little worse then not knowing you mind fills with all sorts of horrors. When I came home for thanksgivng my father flew me and I cried to see how the skyline had changed. Everytime I come home I see what ahs been lost and it makes me sad. So many people from our town died. A friend of the family was on the phone with her husband when he died. Sometimes I think people forget becuase time has passed. When Rudy was on today giving his words of comfort I was so impressed with how he spoke of the strength of Lodon in WW2 and how that had helped the people of NYC.
My heart goes out to the people of the UK. They will be in my thoughts and prayers.

i did not see steve''s post prior to my last post. agreed.

peace, movie zombie

ps and now i''ll call my brother-in-law to make sure he and/or one of his friends weren''t hurt.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 5:01:42 PM
Author: movie zombie
i did not see steve''s post prior to my last post. agreed.

Thank you so much .

Deb

 

[mightyred]

I spent most of this morning tracking down friends. Seems not that long ago they were trying to track down me after 911.

For all those of you trying to get in touch as Lord S said there were some problems with cell phones etc earlier .... I think this put extra burden on land lines and such so hopefully you will hear from them soon via phone or email and they are safe. If anyone did manage to get into work it will probably take them some time to get home although I believe buses and many outer lying trains are now back in operation so most people should be home now.

I have many stories from them of how scary today was. One friend decided to work from home today - very fortunate since two of her co-workers were trapped on a tube on their way to her office but fortunately they were not injured just very shook up.

Another friend works for the BBC and was on a tube and as Lord Summerisle reported she was told it was a power surge but she knew it was more when she got outside to walk and saw helicopters etc overhead. She was then in lockdown mode at work as everyone was asked not to leave.

I am thankful my family are all up north (Lord Summerisles way) as I remember all too well the many IRA attacks we suffered through not so long ago. Very scary and sad indeed.

I hope everyones friends are safe, hug your loved ones and be vigilant where ever you go.