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Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True???

crocop

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
35
So i am about to buy this diamond (unless someone finds something better), and I went to a local jeweller to talk about setting it.

I want a platinum knife edge 2mm solitaire setting (5 prong) on this pear.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.01-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-1976860

When I showed him the picture, he insisted I do not buy an H fancy cut in platinum as it could/will show yellow. He said all fancy cuts should be G or better. Any truth to this?

Lastly, he is asking for $1700 for the ring and setting? Is this normal or too high?
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

That jeweler is right about the color. Pears show a lot of the color due to the nature of the cut. Just don't get convinced into buying something that he "has readily available" without an aset. An aset is a must for a fancy shape stone. Also, he is a jeweler, so he makes 0$ if he doesn't make a sale. So, he wants to sell you his stone, and since you have already found one, that requires poo pooing your stone or getting you to return it if you have already bought it. It is very common with diamonds to talk them down if they aren't from the exact store you are in.

Diamonds in yellow gold settings pick up more of the yellow gold hue compared to diamonds set in a white gold ring setting. For this reason, diamonds set in yellow gold don’t have to have such a good color grade as you would choose for a diamond set in a white gold ring setting.

It is quite apparent that diamonds in yellow gold ring settings absorb much more of the ring setting’s color. You can take advantage of this knowledge and save yourself quite some money!

Furthermore the diamond shape will have an impact on the diamond color as well. The proportions and faceting patterns of various diamond shapes differ. For this reason certain diamond shapes are more prone to showing off their body color.

The round cut diamond is the diamond shape the least prone to showing off its body color. Princess cut diamonds, emerald cut diamonds and asscher cut diamonds are a little bit more prone to show of their body color and therefore it is advisable to take one color grade higher than you would choose for a round cut diamond.

All the other diamond shapes especially the elongated diamond shapes like oval cut diamonds, marquise cut diamonds and pear cut diamonds are even more prone to showing off their body color. In these shapes the body color can be easily seen near the pointed tips. You will have to chose an even better color grade for these diamond shapes.

During the years I have come to the conclusion that according to your diamond shape and the ring metal you use these are the best color grades to choose (If you go over 1.5 carat, consider bumping the color by 1 grade in the whitest direction):

best-color-grades-for-your-diamond.png
 

mixprints

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
13
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

Just a quick thought - Why wouldn't you just have it set with James Allen? I am pretty sure their prices are much better for a simple platinum setting like that and you get a lifetime warranty with them and a great upgrade policy should you need it (they take back the setting too and charge you for a replacement fee not a whole new setting!)

If you wanted an intricately designed setting I would get working with him by all means but I believe they even offer that exactly at JA!

As for color, H is not bad and not that far from G for him to make such a request in my opinion but I am no expert
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

There's nothing that says it has to be G or above in color. Cut, an individual's ability to perceive color, and the metal it's set in will all impact the appearance of color in the diamond. I would rather have the H you picked than a poorly cut G that could show more color. With that being said, $1700 for a 2mm knife-edge platinum setting?! I'm with mixprints on this one... Why would you not just have James Allen set it?? They have a 2mm knife-edge in platinum for $750. https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/platinum-2mm-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7028
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,680
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

As you can see from the table n64bomb posted it says pears down to "H" in a white metal. "I" color and lower in yellow gold.

Edit...but in some cases its personal preference and for really color sensitive people it may be different.

edit...is the setting that your jeweler has a branded setting (like Verragio, Jeff Cooper, Martin Flyer, Ritani, Simon G...)? These
will be more expensive. If it is not a branded setting than the cost should be a lot lower.
 

crocop

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
35
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

LadyMCh|1478642130|4095405 said:
There's nothing that says it has to be G or above in color. Cut, an individual's ability to perceive color, and the metal it's set in will all impact the appearance of color in the diamond. I would rather have the H you picked than a poorly cut G that could show more color. With that being said, $1700 for a 2mm knife-edge platinum setting?! I'm with mixprints on this one... Why would you not just have James Allen set it?? They have a 2mm knife-edge in platinum for $750. https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/platinum-2mm-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7028

Hey, thanks, I agree. I was thinking of buying a loose diamond and having it set locally, for the fact it can be polished/cleaned for free whenever, but it is almost $1000 more.

Could spend that extra on 0.2 carats :dance:
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

It is personal preference to an extent; the colors I put above are kind of a "sale zone", assuming an at least decent cut. There are a few major factors that will determine if you can see the color more easily in a stone.

1. Quality of cut. The more light the stone lets through and reflects properly, the more it will reflect the yellow in the body of the stone.
2. Deepness of cut. My post above was about deepness, and as the cut gets deeper and loses more light, it will reflect less natural white light properly and thus mask a yellow tint less easily.
3. Mounting color. The color of the setting will be picked up by the stone.
4. Size of the stone. As a stone gets bigger, the yellow tint is more easily detected. A 3 carat J round with the same parameters (except carat weight) as a 0.5 carat J round--the 3 carat will be a lot more noticeable.
5. Extent and color of fluorescence.


For your stone, if it is really well cut, you could do a G or H.

If you buy online for the setting, you will sale a lot of money. Your local guys is way overpriced there, and also, he probably won't take liability in setting the stone if something happens.

Also, why are you going VVS2 in clarity? Anything over VS2 you can't tell the difference unless under at least 10x magnification. You could drop down in clarity and get a bigger stone or safe for a vacation surprise trip? That is a matter of preference, though.
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

crocop|1478642671|4095411 said:
LadyMCh|1478642130|4095405 said:
There's nothing that says it has to be G or above in color. Cut, an individual's ability to perceive color, and the metal it's set in will all impact the appearance of color in the diamond. I would rather have the H you picked than a poorly cut G that could show more color. With that being said, $1700 for a 2mm knife-edge platinum setting?! I'm with mixprints on this one... Why would you not just have James Allen set it?? They have a 2mm knife-edge in platinum for $750. https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/platinum-2mm-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7028

Hey, thanks, I agree. I was thinking of buying a loose diamond and having it set locally, for the fact it can be polished/cleaned for free whenever, but it is almost $1000 more.

Could spend that extra on 0.2 carats :dance:

Yeah, you can clean it with a soft bristle tooth brush and some jewelry cleaner. Most of the time, if you go in any jewelry store to look, they'll offer to steam your rings while you browse. And platinum should not need to be polished *that* often. I don't think that's worth the extra $1k, IMHO!
 

crocop

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
35
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

n64bomb|1478643002|4095416 said:
It is personal preference to an extent; the colors I put above are kind of a "sale zone", assuming an at least decent cut. There are a few major factors that will determine if you can see the color more easily in a stone.

1. Quality of cut. The more light the stone lets through and reflects properly, the more it will reflect the yellow in the body of the stone.
2. Deepness of cut. My post above was about deepness, and as the cut gets deeper and loses more light, it will reflect less natural white light properly and thus mask a yellow tint less easily.
3. Mounting color. The color of the setting will be picked up by the stone.
4. Size of the stone. As a stone gets bigger, the yellow tint is more easily detected. A 3 carat J round with the same parameters (except carat weight) as a 0.5 carat J round--the 3 carat will be a lot more noticeable.
5. Extent and color of fluorescence.


For your stone, if it is really well cut, you could do a G or H.

If you buy online for the setting, you will sale a lot of money. Your local guys is way overpriced there, and also, he probably won't take liability in setting the stone if something happens.

Also, why are you going VVS2 in clarity? Anything over VS2 you can't tell the difference unless under at least 10x magnification. You could drop down in clarity and get a bigger stone or safe for a vacation surprise trip? That is a matter of preference, though.

Thanks for all this info. I am surely open to going to VS2 (I just had the VVS2 because it was a reco to me and looked good). I cannot find a better pear at the moment. You have any suggestions?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,680
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

crocop|1478642671|4095411 said:
LadyMCh|1478642130|4095405 said:
There's nothing that says it has to be G or above in color. Cut, an individual's ability to perceive color, and the metal it's set in will all impact the appearance of color in the diamond. I would rather have the H you picked than a poorly cut G that could show more color. With that being said, $1700 for a 2mm knife-edge platinum setting?! I'm with mixprints on this one... Why would you not just have James Allen set it?? They have a 2mm knife-edge in platinum for $750. https://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/platinum-2mm-knife-edge-solitaire-engagement-ring-item-7028

Hey, thanks, I agree. I was thinking of buying a loose diamond and having it set locally, for the fact it can be polished/cleaned for free whenever, but it is almost $1000 more.

Could spend that extra on 0.2 carats :dance:
Almost all jewelers will do a quick cleaning for free (they want your future business) ...a polish cost me $20 for a platinum ring but
I live in a cheap part of the country and I only did a polish about once every 5 years. I was good with the patina on a platinum ring but
if your GF always wants bright white then she will have to do a polish maybe once a year or so.

Does that mean we can look at more costly stones...up to $6k? We're good at spending other people's money here! :lol: :shock: :???:
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
18,853
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

i had a pear in an H color,
i didnt like how the tip shows color were when the butt did not.

almost any other fancy shape i would do an H no problem, and that inlcused a mq, but the mixture of faceting patterns in a pear will be unattractive, based on personal experience
 

crocop

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
35
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

Niel|1478643571|4095424 said:
i had a pear in an H color,
i didnt like how the tip shows color were when the butt did not.

almost any other fancy shape i would do an H no problem, and that inlcused a mq, but the mixture of faceting patterns in a pear will be unattractive, based on personal experience
Thanks for the info.
 

crocop

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
35
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

n64bomb|1478643002|4095416 said:
It is personal preference to an extent; the colors I put above are kind of a "sale zone", assuming an at least decent cut. There are a few major factors that will determine if you can see the color more easily in a stone.

1. Quality of cut. The more light the stone lets through and reflects properly, the more it will reflect the yellow in the body of the stone.
2. Deepness of cut. My post above was about deepness, and as the cut gets deeper and loses more light, it will reflect less natural white light properly and thus mask a yellow tint less easily.
3. Mounting color. The color of the setting will be picked up by the stone.
4. Size of the stone. As a stone gets bigger, the yellow tint is more easily detected. A 3 carat J round with the same parameters (except carat weight) as a 0.5 carat J round--the 3 carat will be a lot more noticeable.
5. Extent and color of fluorescence.


For your stone, if it is really well cut, you could do a G or H.

If you buy online for the setting, you will sale a lot of money. Your local guys is way overpriced there, and also, he probably won't take liability in setting the stone if something happens.

Also, why are you going VVS2 in clarity? Anything over VS2 you can't tell the difference unless under at least 10x magnification. You could drop down in clarity and get a bigger stone or safe for a vacation surprise trip? That is a matter of preference, though.

Hey, what about this VS2?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.10-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2135334
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,680
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/1.10-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2135334
That's a 4 main. A little bit of a different look than the usual pear. It also has small shoulders on it...most people dont care
for shoulders but...
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
9,505
Re: Local jeweller said a fancy cut MUST be colour G? True??

My favorite pear I ever saw in person was a superbly cut M/vs? so I kind of chuckled at the topic.
 
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