local jeweler or no? who pays shipping?

[slbrides]

Since I do not have a personal jeweler, I am wondering if it matters much whether you use someone local or not for mounting. The "local" jewelers listed here are about an hour away and would require me to go in to the city which is not convenient for me.

I buy stone online.
Send to independent appraiser.
If ok, appraiser sends to jeweler to be mounted.
Send back to appraiser for mounted appraisal.
Then send to me.

Seems like a long process...
I understand I get one free shipping from vendor, but then should the shipping fees for rest be included or should I expect to pay for that?

 

[bgray]

i bought my stone from whiteflash, looked at it,sent back (no appraiser), they made the setting, and sent me the ring and yes you will pay the shipping

 

[slbrides]

I like your way...but the hubbie thinks otherwise. hmmmmm

 

[bgray]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:29:26 AM
Author: slbrides
I like your way...but the hubbie thinks otherwise. hmmmmm

seriously--the appraiser business is really overkill when dealing with pricescope...........appraisals are for identification and insurance purposes. they dont say yes this is an amazing diamond or yes it has great brilliance. that isnt their job. they may offer an opinion but they are there to assess a value based on accurate comparisons.........

If you were buying from an unknown entity yes but james allen or whiteflash or GOG etc. I think its unnnecessary. If you get it and dont like is an appraisal going to make you like it?

 

[D&T]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:57:44 AM
Author: bgray




If you were buying from an unknown entity yes but james allen or whiteflash or GOG etc. I think its unnnecessary. If you get it and dont like is an appraisal going to make you like it?

agreed.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:09:15 AM
Author:slbrides
Since I do not have a personal jeweler, I am wondering if it matters much whether you use someone local or not for mounting. The 'local' jewelers listed here are about an hour away and would require me to go in to the city which is not convenient for me.


I buy stone online.

Send to independent appraiser.

If ok, appraiser sends to jeweler to be mounted.

Send back to appraiser for mounted appraisal.

Then send to me.


Seems like a long process...

I understand I get one free shipping from vendor, but then should the shipping fees for rest be included or should I expect to pay for that?

I do this fairly regularly. It’s not as long a process as you think. You usually get one ‘free’ shipment included as part of your purchase. If you’re buying a designer type ring that has some money in it for the dealer, you may be able to get a second shipment for the purchase of that one but the other two are sure to be on you. Even so you may find it more convenient, more secure, faster and less expensive than driving an hour to town twice (once to drop it off, once to pick it up) and you gain the advantage of the appraisers expertise both in your shopping and quality control on the final piece as well as your final documentation. Most shipments internal to the trade, like appraiser to jeweler and visa versa are done by overnight mail.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:57:44 AM
Author: bgray

Date: 10/7/2009 10:29:26 AM

Author: slbrides

I like your way...but the hubbie thinks otherwise. hmmmmm

seriously--the appraiser business is really overkill when dealing with pricescope...........appraisals are for identification and insurance purposes. they dont say yes this is an amazing diamond or yes it has great brilliance. that isnt their job. they may offer an opinion but they are there to assess a value based on accurate comparisons.........


If you were buying from an unknown entity yes but james allen or whiteflash or GOG etc. I think its unnnecessary. If you get it and dont like is an appraisal going to make you like it?

bgray,

Few people are experts at diamonds and/or jewelry and most people aren’t interested in going through the learning curve to develop these skills. A significant majority of the new purchase items I appraise that get sent back to the jeweler are done so for either craftsmanship issues in the mounting or for details about the stone(s) not included in the sales presentation or lab documentation. Every item has been through the seller''s inspection and QC process before it gets to me so, presumably, this should NEVER happen, right? Unfortunately, it''s fairly common and problems that aren''t identified right away tend to turn into a fingerpointing exercise in whether it was the responsibility of the jeweler or the consumer.

It’s fantastically unusual for the problem to be a mismatch between the stone(s) and the related report.

Although MOST jewelers provide a certain amount of documentation for insurance, and nearly every insurance company will accept almost anything no matter how weak, it’s not only the insurance company’s interests who are being protected by a properly done appraisal. They aren’t the ones who should be picky, it’s the client. It’s my observation that very few selling jeweler include ‘free’ documentation that’s sufficient for the purpose, especially for high end goods or goods with less obvious attributes (like superb cutting).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/7/2009 10:29:26 AM
Author: slbrides
I like your way...but the hubbie thinks otherwise. hmmmmm

I hear this a lot. I don''t think most people realize how much it costs us to send and insure a package. It is not uncommon for us to actually lose money on shipping even while our clients are complaining that they should get the second, third, or sometimes forth shipping for free. For us to pay for the shipping for what ever extra shippings are required to meet your needs would require us to raise prices, unfairly making every one pay for any extra shipping needed by a few, which would cause us NOT to make as many sales, which thus punishes us too.

The only fair way is for us to pay once, then anything more is on the person needing the extra shipping.

Wink

 

[slbrides]

Bgray, I was wondering if you were the only one who felt that way... I was thinking the appraisal was mostly to say yes, this is the ring you bought, and yes, now that it is mounted, it is the same stone you bought. So I think from a "was it damaged" perspective, the before and after appraisal might be worth it since I am NOT an expert.

Would love to skip all that, but then would I be able to tell if something was not obviously wrong?

Wink, just curious of the shipping fees...trying to stretch my dollars best I can. I would not expect someone to incur 100''s of dollars to ship a ring all over the country. Just trying to figure best scenario.

 

[slbrides]

Oh, and Bgray, since you went that route, what did you insure it for? Was it for your purchase price?

my original ring was appraised before/after and the insurance amount was based on that appraisal not purchase price.

 

[elle_chris]

If you can find a local appraiser you may not need to pay for shipping at all.

This is the way I did it. Whiteflash sent the stone to my local appraiser. If I decided to return it, then i was reqiured to pay for the shiiping. Since I kept it, i took the stone home from my appraiser and the shipping was free.
Next was my mounting. I''m in NY, purchased the mounting through Pearlman''s who''s in Michigan, but they had me send it directly to the designer in Washington state.
Before sending it off, I got insurance through Jewelrs Mutual as they cover loose stones provided you can fax them the cost/appraisel of the stone and setting combined. That was easy as I already had it appraised and all i did was include the cost of the setting.
My stone was insured and I didn''t need to purchase extra insurance for shipping as Jeweler''s Mutual covers the cost if it''s lost in transit. (I called them first to make sure).

In the end, the stone went from Texas to NY, to Washington and back to NY and all I paid was something like 20 bucks for fed ex overnight.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 10/7/2009 4:15:25 PM
Author: elle_chris
...Before sending it off, I got insurance through Jewelrs Mutual as they cover loose stones provided you can fax them the cost/appraisel of the stone and setting combined. That was easy as I already had it appraised and all i did was include the cost of the setting. My stone was insured and I didn''t need to purchase extra insurance for shipping as Jeweler''s Mutual covers the cost if it''s lost in transit. (I called them first to make sure).

Very few insurance policies will provide coverage for unmounted diamonds and fewer still provide any sort of coverage for diamonds and jewelry items in transit - so I''m really happy to see that Elle_Chris verified coverage before sending off the diamond. This certainly is an excellent alternative for people to consider... The only thing I would like to see consumers considering this option do is to obtain written verfication from the company clearly stating that the insured item will be covered in the event of loss while the item is in the hands of a common carrier such as U.S. Mail; Fed Ex; UPS, etc. because the cynic in me imagines somebody on the other end of the phone saying "I never said that" in the event of loss... Perhaps because of the $50K hit we took when Fed Ex Ground dropped our inscription machine while it was in transit and they denied the claim while the counterclerk babbled "How much would you like to insure this for?" So word to the wise, get it in writing.

 

[elle_chris]

Todd- you''re right, get it in writing. But i did speak to two different people and they did tell me they''d prefer I shipped it via USPS because it''s safer, but they will cover stone while in transit. Pretty sure I still have their names somewhere. But yea, if I ever do this again, I''ll ask for an email

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/7/2009 4:15:25 PM
Author: elle_chris

Before sending it off, I got insurance through Jewelrs Mutual as they cover loose stones provided you can fax them the cost/appraisel of the stone and setting combined. That was easy as I already had it appraised and all i did was include the cost of the setting.
.

thats really good that JM covers insurance while shipping
it saves alot in insurance fees at USPS.


elle, i have a question
i am curious why did you buy your stone all the way from texas when you live in the city that has the biggest diamond district in american...were you specifically looking for a particular diamond stone?

thanks

 

[elle_chris]

There were a few reasons.
First is that I had worked with Whiteflash before and was very happy with the product, and second, have you ever been to the diamond district in nyc? Oh My God. The place is a nightmare (for me). The hard sales, the unwillingness to give any extra info other than color, clarity and weight.
Every diamond they carry is "gorgeous" and EGL is just as strict as GIA. AGS stones? HA! Good luck finding one.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 10/8/2009 1:19:47 PM
Author: haagen_dazs

elle, i have a question
i am curious why did you buy your stone all the way from texas when you live in the city that has the biggest diamond district in american...were you specifically looking for a particular diamond stone?

thanks

The ''street level'' which is readily accessible to the public doesn''t really offer any bargains and the quality that people tend to look for here on PS is not readily available... The ''barkers'' who stand outside the street level stores on 47th are annoying, even for those of us in the trade. The reality is that there is often more variety and more detailed information available from the vendors here on PS who cater to the ideal cut market and pricing is competitive.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/8/2009 1:55:13 PM
Author: elle_chris
There were a few reasons.

First is that I had worked with Whiteflash before and was very happy with the product, and second, have you ever been to the diamond district in nyc? Oh My God. The place is a nightmare (for me). The hard sales, the unwillingness to give any extra info other than color, clarity and weight.

Every diamond they carry is ''gorgeous'' and EGL is just as strict as GIA. AGS stones? HA! Good luck finding one.

hi elle
well i have not been there before
however i plan to
i hope places like JA ID and Excel will not be a nightmare

Looks like you were very specific in your requirements.
thanks for sharing

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/8/2009 2:11:41 PM
Author: Todd Gray

The ''street level'' which is readily accessible to the public doesn''t really offer any bargains and the quality that people tend to look for here on PS is not readily available... The ''barkers'' who stand outside the street level stores on 47th are annoying, even for those of us in the trade. The reality is that there is often more variety and more detailed information available from the vendors here on PS who cater to the ideal cut market and pricing is competitive.

hopefully JA ID and Excel are not street level shops
i think they are in office buildings right?

i will check out the barkers when i am there

 

[bgray]

Date: 10/7/2009 3:39:02 PM
Author: slbrides
Oh, and Bgray, since you went that route, what did you insure it for? Was it for your purchase price?


my original ring was appraised before/after and the insurance amount was based on that appraisal not purchase price.

SLBRIDES: I insured my ring for the purchase price only.

 

[haagen_dazs]

Date: 10/8/2009 1:55:13 PM
Author: elle_chris
There were a few reasons.

First is that I had worked with Whiteflash before and was very happy with the product, and second, have you ever been to the diamond district in nyc? Oh My God. The place is a nightmare (for me). The hard sales, the unwillingness to give any extra info other than color, clarity and weight.

Every diamond they carry is 'gorgeous' and EGL is just as strict as GIA. AGS stones? HA! Good luck finding one.

just taking into account the excellent (XXX and ideal 0) stones with good cut precision and cut symmetry (close to h&a as well as h&a)

what proportion of these stones are GIA and AGS (and other since we cannot discount other labs with super duber diamonds) ?

80/19/1 %
90/9/1 %
90/9.9/0.1 % ??

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/7/2009 11:08:51 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 10/7/2009 10:09:15 AM
Author:slbrides
Since I do not have a personal jeweler, I am wondering if it matters much whether you use someone local or not for mounting. The ''local'' jewelers listed here are about an hour away and would require me to go in to the city which is not convenient for me.


I buy stone online.

Send to independent appraiser.

If ok, appraiser sends to jeweler to be mounted.

Send back to appraiser for mounted appraisal.

Then send to me.


Seems like a long process...

I understand I get one free shipping from vendor, but then should the shipping fees for rest be included or should I expect to pay for that?

I do this fairly regularly. It’s not as long a process as you think. You usually get one ‘free’ shipment included as part of your purchase. If you’re buying a designer type ring that has some money in it for the dealer, you may be able to get a second shipment for the purchase of that one but the other two are sure to be on you. Even so you may find it more convenient, more secure, faster and less expensive than driving an hour to town twice (once to drop it off, once to pick it up) and you gain the advantage of the appraisers expertise both in your shopping and quality control on the final piece as well as your final documentation. Most shipments internal to the trade, like appraiser to jeweler and visa versa are done by overnight mail.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I have never understood somethign which is at the heart of this issue. It seems cheaper for an appraisor to insure a diamond package than for us to do so with USPS and maybe even with a courier. I always wondered if that is because your professional insurance covers the shipment already or for other reasons please enlighten me on this. Shipping a package of under 1 pound from state to state is relatively cheap, but the insurance is what makes things get expensive especially as the price of the item goes up. Do you have a commerical account with a courier or USPS which makes it cheaper or some sort of comprehensive insurance?

Could you please explain what happens when you ship VIA USPS or a courier and if an appraisor gets better shipping and insurance rates and why?

 

[denverappraiser]

CCL,

I, and most people in the trade who ship high value things frequently, have insurance that covers property while in the possession of the carriers but is issued by a 3rd party insurance company. Mine’s from Jewelers Mutual and is an option as part of my commercial policy but there are several other competitors. Each has different sorts of requirements and some require particular carriers be it USPS, FedEx or UPS. That’s why you’ll see shippers that use a different carrier service from what you’re accustomed to. I almost never ship via FedEx to a US address because my insurance rates are better if I use USPS while other companies give better rates (or require) use of different carriers and so their clients prefer to ship by those methods. It’s basically a quantity discount on insurance for frequent shippers.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 10/9/2009 2:01:12 PM
Author: denverappraiser
CCL,

I, and most people in the trade who ship high value things frequently, have insurance that covers property while in the possession of the carriers but is issued by a 3rd party insurance company. Mine’s from Jewelers Mutual and is an option as part of my commercial policy but there are several other competitors. Each has different sorts of requirements and some require particular carriers be it USPS, FedEx or UPS. That’s why you’ll see shippers that use a different carrier service from what you’re accustomed to. I almost never ship via FedEx to a US address because my insurance rates are better if I use USPS while other companies give better rates (or require) use of different carriers and so their clients prefer to ship by those methods. It’s basically a quantity discount on insurance for frequent shippers.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

So is that yearly insurance based on an annual average value sent or by the piece? I am pretty sure my appraisor had the same thing. When he shipped my $10,000 diamond via USPS cost him next to nothing like $15 - $20 whereas it might have cost me $30 - $50 depending upon where it was going to.

I would think that for an item over $5000 two $20 charges would be negligible but when its $50 4X that starts to get expensive.

 

[denverappraiser]

I pay several thousand dollars per year for the base insurance from JM. Additional insurance is available on a per package basis as needed that is both cheaper and better than the competitive offering from the shipping companies. Yes, I charge extra on each package even though I pay for a significant fraction of the bill to JM on an annual basis and yes, the insurance is routinely more than the postage. I charge my clients less for overnight shipping than they would be charged by either FedEx or UPS through their ‘insurance’ programs (both of which suck by the way, but that’s a different discussion). For most individuals shipping from one US address to another, the least expensive method is to do the packing and shipping work yourself and to use USPS registered mail as the carrier buying the supplemental insurance offered by the post office.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[slbrides]

Ok, after reading all of these, it brings up the how much to insure the final product for? Maybe this should be a separate topic, but I am looking in to insurance, WF suggested Jewelers Mutual which I have contacted. But they say they insure for the appraised value only.
I have a problem with that as the appraised value (retail replacement value) is higher than the purchase price. My previous insurance experience paid the current market value which was substantially lower than the appraised value.
They also offered to replace my lost stone with one they found using their own jeweler which I considered a conflict of interest so I took the pay out.
My question is, what is the point of insuring for the higher amount if you are only going to get the market value? If I pay for say $9000 of insurance, shouldn''t I get a replacement value for the same?
And WF suggested I request a pay out of the insured amount and get it in writing.
I asked Jewelers Mut today to do that and that is not something that they do I was informed. They replace.

BGray, I see you used the purchase price. Was this your reasoning?

I don''t like not having the control for one. And after all the work I did researching, now someone else is going to "buy" me a stone?

Of course, I never would know all of this if I had not lost the first stone and been worked by insurance. I am hoping never to have to be in this position again.

Sorry for the book. And I guess there is more than one question here.

 

[sonnyjane]

SL - I have Jewelers Mutual and used my receipt/certificate as the "appraisal". I have another piece that I have a separate appraisal for other than the receipt, and that is what I submitted. They will take either, at least they did for me. If you don't want to pay more in premiums with a higher appraisal, just use the purchase price. The reason for getting purchase price and not a higher amount is because many jewelery insurance companies give you "like merchandise" instead of a check, so for a majority of items, they will go through their contacts to get you a piece that is similar to the original for their price. Many will only write a check if they can't find a suitable replacement. So if you're not going to get a check, it's better to not waste money paying higher premiums.