Lobster clasp on Art Deco necklace?

[Grnbri]

I recently purchased this necklace off eBay and am now starting to worry that this is not a true antique deco piece given the markings along the sides of the bezel and also the fact that it has a lobster claw closure which I just read is a later invention from the 1950’s. The seller said it is from the Art Deco period and not reproduction and did not note any repairs (altho I did not ask specifically about the repairs). She has 100 percent 5 stars on eBay for what it is worth but when I looked up her company (listed on PayPal address), I did find a few complaints about the quality of her items but also some very glowing reports. I did look at a few other necklaces claiming to be from the Art Deco period on eBay that did have lobster claws but they could also not be truly from the period. Does anyone have insight to this? Will likely get necklace appraised if it looks pretty enough when it arrives.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I'm not hugely familiar with art deco necklaces so did a little research and most of the necklaces that are true Art Deco have spring ring clasps. Platinum was used very often during this period so the metal could be another indicator.

Here is an article I thought was helpful:

A Guide to Art Deco Jewellery | The Antique Jewellery Company

We celebrate an era widely remembered for its cocktail-sipping, fringe-shaking flappers and jazz - and its spectacular, bold Art Deco jewellery.

www.antiquejewellerycompany.com

My gut is telling me this is not an original art deco piece. It doesn't have any attributes of that period and if it's a 14k gold setting and chain with a lobster claw clasp it would be of a later period as you mentioned.

It's possible that the good reviews are from people who are not as familiar with reproductions, some just buy a piece at face value and never question the authenticity. Is there a return policy? How big is the diamond? I would definitely get this looked over if you are at all inclined to keep it by an experienced appraiser to verify exactly what you bought. Then depending on the price I would lookup comps on what similar necklaces with an old cut sell for so you aren't paying the premium of an art deco piece.

 

[stracci2000]

I'm with @YadaYadaYada
I feel certain that it isn't Art Deco.
That is definitely not an Art Deco period clasp.

Pretty necklace, though!

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

The diamond is old cut but the necklace does not look Art Deco to me. I like the necklace and how the old cut diamond appears modern in its new setting, but still has antique charm.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

Oh, I wonder if the necklace is being sold as art deco because of the diamond, it is an old cut as LisaRN pointed out. The diamond may be from the period stated.

ETA: its hard to know if the seller was being intentionally misleading or not if only the diamond is old but at the end of the day sellers have a responsibility to know what they are selling.

 

[Grnbri]

Thanks, all! It was priced fairly for an old cut with the reported color/Clarity but I guess I cant really trust this seller.

 

[Grnbri]

Oh, I wonder if the necklace is being sold as art deco because of the diamond, it is an old cut as LisaRN pointed out. The diamond may be from the period stated.

ETA: its hard to know if the seller was being intentionally misleading or not if only the diamond is old but at the end of the day sellers have a responsibility to know what they are selling.

I asked specifically as to whether the piece is actually antique or just designed in an Art Deco style and she wrote that is is from the Art Deco time period. So either she is unaware of the discrepancies in this piece or really trying to mislead her buyers. I do think it looks like a lovely piece but will need to see irl. She offers a 30 day no questions return so we will see where happens with that. Ugh, should probably have spent a little bit more and just purchased from my trusted online vendors.

 

[kgizo]

Hmmm. Can you take a better pic of the markings on the side you are concerned about?
I’m wondering if this is a gray area and how PSers feel in general about intact antique/vintage v conversion v reproduction. If the bezel was removed from a deco piece and the chain attached how should it be described? Perhaps this is a question for a new thread.

 

[Grnbri]

Hmmm. Can you take a better pic of the markings on the side you are concerned about?
I’m wondering if this is a gray area and how PSers feel in general about intact antique/vintage v conversion v reproduction. If the bezel was removed from a deco piece and the chain attached how should it be described? Perhaps this is a question for a new thread.

I don’t have the piece in hand yet and should probably have researched all of this prior to purchasing. I think the first red flag for me was being surprised that the name of the seller’s Llc was so different from the eBay name and upon googling the llc found that there were several threads complaining about the seller who had a different eBay name at that time (that matched the llc). This caused me to go back to the photos and really scrutinize them and I felt that something seemed just a tad off and I finally pinned it to the lobster clasp (i have mainly collected Victorian and Edwardian pieces, all of which have had dog clips/spring rings) and the markings on the size of the bezel were more floral and scrolled which isn’t what I read about the more geometric shapes seen during the deco time period. I actually like conversions and don’t mind these if they are labeled as such and have a few conversions myself. I also understand that things break and need repairs so if that had occurred I’m fine with that also. But I also don’t like feeling blatantly misled or taken advantage of just because I’m not an antiques expert.

 

[Rhea]

The diamond looks antique. The setting could be new or old and have been reused.

Do you want the style or a true antique? I really wanted one like this and finally came to the conclusion, you're not going to get both. Bezel set with attached chain with a nice clasp like that wasn't done and anytime you find it, it's not going to be all original art deco. Each piece may be largely original - original diamond, original bezel, original chain but put together at a later date with parts, such as the clasp, replaced.

 

[Grnbri]

I do like the style- I love the details of the bezel such as the millegrain and even the extra scrolls on the sides of the bezel. It is described as a 0.68c ij vs12 old European cut set in platinum. The price was just under 2k pretax. So yes, it checks off many of the boxes in terms of what I am looking for with the added bonus that it is an antique piece - I find antiques somewhat magical but perhaps I am just being superstitious or naive in that belief. It was just finding the disturbing information about a seller who had been noted to be unkind or unscrupulous in the past by other buyers who has also changed her selling name multiple times that made me worry - and then finding the discrepancy of an anachronistic lobster clasp after being assured by this (now questionable) seller that has given me a sour taste regarding a purchase I am otherwise excited to receive. Hopefully the seller will honor the return policy if the item does not check out- for me that would be if the diamond is of lower grade or size than described or damaged or if the entire piece is just plain ugly in person.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I do like the style- I love the details of the bezel such as the millegrain and even the extra scrolls on the sides of the bezel. It is described as a 0.68c ij vs12 old European cut set in platinum. The price was just under 2k pretax. So yes, it checks off many of the boxes in terms of what I am looking for with the added bonus that it is an antique piece - I find antiques somewhat magical but perhaps I am just being superstitious or naive in that belief. It was just finding the disturbing information about a seller who had been noted to be unkind or unscrupulous in the past by other buyers who has also changed her selling name multiple times that made me worry - and then finding the discrepancy of an anachronistic lobster clasp after being assured by this (now questionable) seller that has given me a sour taste regarding a purchase I am otherwise excited to receive. Hopefully the seller will honor the return policy if the item does not check out- for me that would be if the diamond is of lower grade or size than described or damaged or if the entire piece is just plain ugly in person.

Well fingers crossed the piece is beautiful and in no way dissapoints when it arrives
I hope the clasp was a repair at some stage

 

[YadaYadaYada]

You know it is a pretty necklace and the scrolls on the sides of the bezel is so nice, even if it isn't all Art Deco, it's still a very pretty piece. If you do end up being happy with the diamond and don't have any feelings about it not being 100% deco then I would say keep it. The reality is an old piece will show some signs of wear and may require some restoration so something like this necklace would eliminate this potential costs.

 

[Bron357]

Its nigh impossible to accurately date the necklace.
It could be 1930s, 1950s or even last week! Definately the diamond is an older cut but people often reset old cut diamonds so that’s no guarantee of era. And the clasp definitely rules out Original Art Deco however clasps can be replaced and old spring clasps do wear out / fail after alot of use.

 

[Roselina]

My bet would be old cut, but reset in Art Deco inspired setting. The clasps are def newer, but then they could have just been replaced at some point. But it is a very pretty piece!

 

[PreRaphaelite]

It’s beautiful. While I agree with others that it is not from the Art Deco nor Edwardian periods, it has a touch of those styles.

Someone put effort Into softening a modern setting so that it would suit the stone it held. It’s rather a good job, in my opinion. It’s exactly the sort of thing I’d wear.

While a true antique would likely have a much thinner and/or irregular mount (see pic), as long as you haven’t paid a premium, I think you might be happy with it.


The walls look too uniform to be a true antique, in my opinion. Might it be a Stuller mount that has had delicate engraving added? If that is the case, would you be able to replicate it for the same overall cost? In other words, could you buy a diamond like that, a chain, a bezel, and clasp, and then add the labor cost for stone setting, assembling and lasering/soldering, milgrain, and engraving, for what you paid for the necklace so far?

I hope you love the necklace when you get it! If not, I think you can return it, yes? So rest assured and think of this as Play.

Do show us a Neck shot if you decide to keep it!

 

[Grnbri]

This is a fantastic community! Thanks for all your thoughts and also for confirming my suspicions. There are currently quite a few great options out there right now for similarly sized solitaire old cut necklaces - I think my ideal setting would be a white/silver bezel with a gold chain, as I tend to wear more gold but also like the mixed metal look (and having married in the early 2000’s, my wedding set is platinum) - I especially like the reimagined pieces featuring the original antique diamond setting which tends to be a white gold or antique silver with a new gold chain. However, I was swayed by this piece given its charm and purported antiquity as well as the nice financing options through PayPal when purchased through eBay, where I have never before purchased a higher end item. So lessons learned. The necklace should arrive early next week, although my recent USPS experiences have shown delays by 3-5 days.

where do you think I should take the piece to have the diamond inspected? Would a regular jeweler be willing to do this? Are lab grown diamonds ever cut in antique styles? As this is graded an ij I suspect it would not be lab grown or moissanite but now I’ve become distrustful. Appraisals in my area are around $100 per piece, might be worth it to save the $2100.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

Take it to a pawn shop. They’ll test it right there and tell you if it’s a diamond. However, don’t ask what they’d give you for it, because:

a) that’s not info you ever ever want to hear, trust me, and
b) you’re not entertaining that idea anyway.

However, even if you can’t get to a pawn shop, you might be able to investigate the stone at home. While diamond and moissanite are sometimes cut to look old, they won’t be likely to have inclusions that would be visible. (Forget the ‘grade’ the seller gave the diamond, unless it has real paperwork.)

Furthermore, the culet would be perfectly centered on most modern stones whereas an old stone is likely to have one slightly askew, I’d be very interested to see a close up shot of the stone when you get it. The bezel may be able to hide small chips on the girdle, but as long as the stone is what you love, nothing else matters.

Take heart! It might be gorgeous!

 

[Grnbri]

Hmmm. It arrived today and is definitely not platinum. I worry the diamond is not real either but I’m not savvy enough about old cuts to tell. Ugh. Already sent message to seller asking how to return.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

It doesn’t look like the same pendant. I’m sorry you’ve had a disappointment. Hang in there and PS will help you find the necklace you want.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

im very sorry for the disappointment. i am glad and relieved for you that a solid return policy is in place. it wasn't mean to be. your perfect old cut pendant is out there ...

not knowing what your budget is, there are a few old cuts being sold by forum members:

@winnietucker is selling an oec L color vs clarity 1.16ct

im sure if you went through preloved ps jewels, you might find something you like. and there is also loupetroupe.com

 

[Grnbri]

Thanks for the great advice! Will start trolling the preloved ps gems (that oec is lovely and close to my price range!) and I have not yet explored loupetroupe so very excited to start a more worthwhile hunt. On another note and to add to my education: why is the chain discolored brown? Is it actually silver with tarnish? Or perhaps wearing of platinum plating? Did someone actually go thru the trouble of soldering a plat950 tab onto a non-platinum chain? The level of dishonesty blows me away.

 

[Big Fat Facets]

its difficult to say what the discoloration is...

could be tarnish, could be polishing compound, could just be plain debris, could be about anything...

i woudn't dwell on it too much. i think it was a very valuable learning experience. and a reminder to deal with vendors/sellers with a solid return policy, in writing.

i think your best bet is to get yourself a fantastic old cut loose stone and then have it set the way you like it.

you can set it in platinum, white gold rhodium coated, or white gold uncoated.

i understand the allure of an actual authentic genuine antique. but the hunt for that "special" piece may take a good while.