Light Return and Hearts and Arrows vs. 4C's

[Eric1103]

Hi,

I have very little experience with Diamonds and I was hoping one of you could help me with a question I had.

I have been working with a Diamond dealer in the NYC area to help pick out an engagement ring. He has been pushing the idea on me that the light return (determined by the light path scope), the quality of the hearts and arrows, and the 3 dimentionality of the cut is more important then the color and clarity.

In the end he is offering a 1.5 carat I color SI1 clarity with an excellent cut for $11,500. The hearts and Arrows are very clear, and there is minimal light loss when looking at it in the light path scope.

At a different dealer I was offered a 1.5 carat F color VS2 clarity for $10,000. I'm not sure what the cut was, and was not shown the hearts and arrows or light return.

Being that all the other dealers I have went to don't talk about hearts and arrows or use a light path scope, I have been sceptical of whether I should believe it all. Am I making a mistake going down in color and clarity and paying more?

Please help!

Thanks
Eric

 

[TitanCi]

I'd say the dealer is making an informed buyer out of you (dealer one). It's important to know a stone's cut is crucial in determining how beautiful a stone will look. The "light path" scope he is using (I'm assuming it's an Ideal Scope) will reveal how much light a stone returns, thus making it look brighter and bigger versus a big, dead, dull looking stone. Can he take pictures of the stone for you so you can post them up here? Is it one of the vendors that PS features? You can search a vendor like jamesallen.com or whiteflash.com or briangavindiamonds.com to see if you can find something similar to what you're considering; they have live pictures and the Ideal-scope images too (except for james allen, you have to ask for it)

I'd say hold off on buying the stone because a quick search shows there are a few stones with better color in that price range. There must be a reason why the F VS2 is being sold for $10k (i.e. is it not graded by GIA or AGS, poor cut, fluor, something). But I'd say he's selling you a good point, I don't know about a good stone, but it's good he's pushing light performance!

 

[06pvc]

Yes. Light Performance is most important, so dealer #1 is the best so far.

Another issue is the certification. AGS & GIA are the only labs who give relable color grades. So if you are looking at EGL stones the true color is probably several grades lower.

 

[WinkHPD]

Somewhere on this board is a photo of a .75ct stone that looks larger than a 1ct stone because the cutting is vastly superior.

In my opinion Cutting is far and away the most important of the C's. You can have and I have seen, lifeless lumpy D-IF stones that are incredibly expensive or you can have a smaller D-IF that is incredible to look at as well as expensive. If you are going to spend the money, at least get one that is beautiful!

Your properly cut gem will likely look both more sparkly, more beautiful and also look whiter than the I color that it is.

You may want to do some more study before you make a final decision, but by all means go with someone who has kept up with his/her education and understands the benefits of cutting. Otherwise you may well get a stone that looks good in the show room lights but fails to perform on her hand.

Wink

 

[Eric1103]

Thank you for all the replies, I will ask him if he can send me a picture. I looked on Whiteflash for a comparable diamond and found a 1.51 I SI1 ideal cut for 12,213. Item code AGS-104056691028. It looks very similar to the diamond "dealer 1" showed me, even the picture through the ideal scope look similar in terms of light return. The only difference is whiteflash calls this an ideal cut. The diamond I was looking at was an excellent cut not ideal but I thought excellent was the highest GIA grade for cut.

If the diamond I was offered was as similar to the one I referenced above from whiteflash do you think it is worth the 11,600 he is charging. The low color grade and clarity based on the GIA cert is what makes me think I am overpaying but the diamond looks great and as said above is comparable to the one on whiteflash.

Thanks
Eric

 

[GMUAlum08]

All I can say is its all about cut my man. I could have bought a 1.25 carat diamond with similar specs to my solasfera for the same price, but with a poorer cut. The solasfera puts it to shame in a side by side comparison. Cut and light return rule supreme. To a degree, clarity is the most overrated "C" IMO. Why pay for something you can't see? Or do you walk around with a loupe in you pocket all the time?

 

[Eric1103]

Thank you GMUALUM. The diamond I am looking at is a solasfera as well, so you are making me feel like I am making the right decision by spending the extra money.

It is tough because my gut tells me that it is worth the money, but when everyone else tells me differently it makes me second guess whether I'm making the right decision.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

A Solasfera is a very fine cut. We all have to balance the C's with our budgets. I think most of us set limits that are purely personal. I think in your case, your choice is to pay the premium for the Solasfera or go with a traditional ideal/excellent cut and maybe bump up a notch in color. Both are great choices.

Here is a video showing an excellent cut diamond, a hearts and arrows ideal cut, an antique style cut (AVR), and a Solasfera. You can see that they are all great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiM3COzjFM&feature=BFa&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&lf=plcp

 

[TitanCi]

All I can say is its all about cut my man. I could have bought a 1.25 carat diamond with similar specs to my solasfera for the same price, but with a poorer cut. The solasfera puts it to shame in a side by side comparison. Cut and light return rule supreme. To a degree, clarity is the most overrated "C" IMO. Why pay for something you can't see? Or do you walk around with a loupe in you pocket all the time?

In all fairness, Solasferas is a different cut vs. traditional RB. So it's not really comparing apples to apples, but man, dem Solasferas are quite BRIGHT!!!

 

[Christina...]

Thank you for all the replies, I will ask him if he can send me a picture. I looked on Whiteflash for a comparable diamond and found a 1.51 I SI1 ideal cut for 12,213. Item code AGS-104056691028. It looks very similar to the diamond "dealer 1" showed me, even the picture through the ideal scope look similar in terms of light return. The only difference is whiteflash calls this an ideal cut. The diamond I was looking at was an excellent cut not ideal but I thought excellent was the highest GIA grade for cut.

If the diamond I was offered was as similar to the one I referenced above from whiteflash do you think it is worth the 11,600 he is charging. The low color grade and clarity based on the GIA cert is what makes me think I am overpaying but the diamond looks great and as said above is comparable to the one on whiteflash.

Thanks
Eric

The reason for this is different labs. AGS calls their top cut 'ideal' GIA "excellent'. Both AGS and GIA are reputable labs with consistent grading. However an AGS 0 (ideal) almost never needs further investigation because it has already ready been evaluated for light performance, making it extremely difficult to purchase a dud. For inexperienced diamonds buyers looking for a way to simplify their search I would recommend an AGS0.