letter of origin

[marchi]

My understanding has always been that internet sites, including this one, serve as a clearinghouse by posting lists of dealers diamonds on their sites. If this is the case how do some sites claim to follow the diamond from mine to you? Do sites like Brilliant Earth own the entire inventory that they post?

 

[sakari_8]

Internet site shows several stones with great prices and they show the stones which they do not actually own, Major online stores
like Bluenile, James Allen, Brian gavin, B2C Jewels all show great prices but none of them would be able to give information on the
mines, they would not know from which mine does the diamond is coming from except if the stone is from Canadian Mine certified by
Canadian authority.

I do not really think it is possible for Brilliant Earth to own the inventory as this is practically impossible to own so many stones.
This is what they Claim on the FAQ's of Brilliant Earth site:

How does Brilliant Earth verify that its diamonds are ethically sourced?

We begin by carefully selecting the countries and mines that will supply our diamonds. We then track our diamonds as they are cut,
polished, and transported to ensure that our supply chain is not corrupted by diamonds with violent or unethical histories.
Many retailers make vague claims that their diamonds are ethically sourced. However, few retailers take the time to understand
their supply chains, to ensure their diamonds are carefully traced from mine to market.

 

[marchi]

Great,but that seems very vague and somewhat disingenuous. Are they saying they only deal with reputable dealers? That's no different than anyone else. What's the criteria, if any?

 

[RockyRacoon]

Great,but that seems very vague and somewhat disingenuous. Are they saying they only deal with reputable dealers? That's no different than anyone else. What's the criteria, if any?

Brilliant Earth has different structures based upon the country or origin. If the diamond is mined in Botswana, etc., then it is also cut/polished in the same area, as part of an integrated supply chain, meant to educate and train skilled local labor. If the stone comes from Canada, it is from one of two specific mines that have long-established reputations of environmental/social responsibility.

I've looked at many retailers and Brilliant Earth's policy/documentation is definitely the best. Not perfect, but still a concerted effort and not just lip-service.

Their prices do tend to be higher, and it is more difficult to find a really well cut diamond. It can be done, but it just takes more work than most search engines. They also don't provide IS or magnified images, which is another drawback.

 

[marchi]

I'm sorry, but "looked into" exactly how. Any research I've done takes me back to their certificate, which they produce. Is it ,"I'm honest because I say so", or something more?

 

[RockyRacoon]

I'm sorry, but "looked into" exactly how. Any research I've done takes me back to their certificate, which they produce. Is it ,"I'm honest because I say so", or something more?

Any certification of origin, when it comes down to it, is 'I'm honest because I say so.' That's the concept of certification - you have to be working with a reputable organization.

 

[marchi]

No offense Rocky, but they are guaranteeing origin. Does no one else have a problem with this?

 

[marchi]

Could someone from "Brilliant Earth", maybe, clarify this issue for me?

Somehow on a site where everything needs to be documented, scoped, checked and double checked this issue just gets skimmed over with no question.

I'm perplexed.

 

[heididdl]

Marchi I've read your posts several times and I am trying to figure out the purpose of the question. Each of us as PS has found this forum for different reasons. Some are about to propose and need validation about a stone or ring, others come to lurk to learn about buying diamonds. Others are jewelery collectors and like to discuss their passion for diamonds and jewelry.

the PS vendors are those that are recommended by PS as trust worthy Evendors who give us choices for mostly certified diamonds available to the public. Many of the e vendors also have in house stones.

I don't understand your motivation for determining the origin of the diamonds. To my knowledge all the e vendors only deal in conflict free diamonds as stated on their individual web pages.

I hope I do not seem hostile but I am just trying to quality your inquiry.

 

[heididdl]

HMMM I don't see Brillant Earth under the list of Vendors.....

 

[RockyRacoon]

No offense Rocky, but they are guaranteeing origin. Does no one else have a problem with this?

No offense taken.

That's the concept of guarantee - you believe an institution has the legitimacy to back up the claim. Just like any guarantee, for any product, anywhere.

From dictionary.com:
guar-an-tee
1. a promise or assurance, especially one in writing, that something is of specified quality, content, benefit, etc.

Maybe you were thinking of a different word than guarantee?

 

[marchi]

Well, since I'm ,apparently, the only one that thinks it's far fetched that a company can track every diamond that they sell through the mining, sorting, cutting and transporting, I'll move on.

It just seems a little too easy to take advantage of people's efforts to do the right thing, I'd like a little more specific idea of how they provide these assurances.

Thank you all.

 

[bunnycat]

I would think that if a person had (ethical) origins that were completely verifiable as the item of most importance in a stone search, would not a lab grown stone be the best way to go? Not a sim, but a cultured stone.

 

[bunnycat]

Well, since I'm ,apparently, the only one that thinks it's far fetched that a company can track every diamond that they sell through the mining, sorting, cutting and transporting, I'll move on.

It just seems a little too easy to take advantage of people's efforts to do the right thing, I'd like a little more specific idea of how they provide these assurances.

Thank you all.

It just seems to me a company would probably have to own the mine to do what you are asking. No need to be rude. People were trying to help, but it's perhaps a lot more complicated a subject than you think.

 

[marchi]

And yet they do.

 

[RockyRacoon]

I would think that if a person had (ethical) origins that were completely verifiable as the item of most importance in a stone search, would not a lab grown stone be the best way to go? Not a sim, but a cultured stone.

Bastetcat - I think you're right here.

Cultured stone would be the way to go for completely verifiable, air-tight ethical origins.

BE does a very good job, but there will still be gaps in confirmed legitimacy (example: a government body is regulating a mine, but who is to say that gov't body isn't corrupt, etc.) in harvesting/refining a natural resource, even in an integrated supply chain. This is true of every industry.

 

[marchi]

Really!! "BE does a really good job", still need some clarity on this. No offense, again! But you sound like a shill for BE.

Any facts would be welcome. And I'm not a troll, really just looking for information and clarity.

 

[SMC]

According to this article, BE sources all of its diamonds from Canada. Thus, they can guarantee the origin of their diamonds to a specific country, and Canada does not have the "blood diamond" issues prevalent in other countries: http://www.jckonline.com/article/286191-Politically_Correct_Diamonds_.php

However, I agree with others - if you really want to be environmentally friendly, you'd want to purchase a simulated stone. Canadian diamond mining is probably has some negative impacts to the environment: http://thegreenerdiamond.org/pages/about-conflict-diamonds/impact-on-the-environment.php

BTW, marchi, are you really "Trade"? You have that designation in your profile, which is confusing because I would think that you would know more about this than others on this forum.

 

[RockyRacoon]

Really!! "BE does a really good job", still need some clarity on this. No offense, again! But you sound like a shill for BE.

Any facts would be welcome. And I'm not a troll, really just looking for information and clarity.

<shrug> I had multiple good experiences with BE. You have had no experience with them. I am speaking from my personal experience and what I've learned in my (albeit limited) research.

There are no 'facts' that are going to satisfy you. This is true of any guarantee in any industry. Your hunt is fallacious.

 

[liaerfbv]

Here's an article from 2010 interviewing a co-founder of BE where he talks about their standards of ethics, etc. I don't think it's going to satisfy your questions, but I do think they seem genuinely concerned about the origin of the stones they sell.

http://www.triplepundit.com/2010/02/interview-brilliant-earth-diamonds/

I don't think there's any real way to track a diamond from mining to sale and 100% guarantee it's conflict free. As others have said above, a gov't may be corrupt, a dealer may be unethical, but all you can do is vet your sources as best you can and accept the risk or buy another type of man-made gem with no risk for conflict issues.

 

[marchi]

I am in the trade and run across customers who would like me to tell them I know where my diamonds come from. I can't. I believe I deal with reputable dealers who do the same down the line.

To Sartman's point, yes of course created diamonds are a good option for many. But sort of beside the point in this conversation. And today BE has stones from Africa and Siberia as well as Canada.

To liaerrflby, we are all genuinely concerned about the ethicality of the diamonds we sell, but if they can't be tracked don't say you do.

And to RR, do you have any info at all or just like to see your name in print.

I compete with the internet everyday. I'm just looking for an honest conversation.

 

[SMC]

I am in the trade and run across customers who would like me to tell them I know where my diamonds come from. I can't. I believe I deal with reputable dealers who do the same down the line.

To Sartman's point, yes of course created diamonds are a good option for many. But sort of beside the point in this conversation. And today BE has stones from Africa and Siberia as well as Canada.

To liaerrflby, we are all genuinely concerned about the ethicality of the diamonds we sell, but if they can't be tracked don't say you do.

And to RR, do you have any info at all or just like to see your name in print.

I compete with the internet everyday. I'm just looking for an honest conversation.

Well, they say that they track the diamonds from mine to production: http://www.brilliantearth.com/frequently-asked-questions/
"We begin by carefully selecting the countries and mines that will supply our diamonds. We then track our diamonds as they are cut, polished, and transported to ensure that our supply chain is not corrupted by diamonds with violent or unethical histories. Many retailers make vague claims that their diamonds are ethically sourced. However, few retailers take the time to understand their supply chains, to ensure their diamonds are carefully traced from mine to market."

I'm pretty sure you can bring down their business if you were able to prove that they did otherwise. They have no reason to lie as their entire business model is based on selling conflict-free diamonds. There is a way for you to contact them on their website - if you're curious, you can just email them and ask about their guarantee and process. They've been featured in some reputable newspapers, so I think they are legitimate.

 

[RockyRacoon]

I am in the trade and run across customers who would like me to tell them I know where my diamonds come from. I can't. I believe I deal with reputable dealers who do the same down the line.

To Sartman's point, yes of course created diamonds are a good option for many. But sort of beside the point in this conversation. And today BE has stones from Africa and Siberia as well as Canada.

To liaerrflby, we are all genuinely concerned about the ethicality of the diamonds we sell, but if they can't be tracked don't say you do.

And to RR, do you have any info at all or just like to see your name in print.

I compete with the internet everyday. I'm just looking for an honest conversation.

I just like to see my name in print.

Your claim that you're 'just looking for an honest conversation' is disingenuous. You don't know what you're looking for, and are upset that no one can help you find it.

If your business acumen is really this poor, and you don't even understand what a guarantee is, I urge you not to reveal the name of your business. In your words - "No offense"

 

[marchi]

My user name and store name are the same. I have nothing to hide. I'm just looking for a little truth and fair play.

 

[RockyRacoon]

I'm just looking for a little truth and fair play.

Doubtful.

 

[bunnycat]

Well, from the questions you ask and the way you are asking them, it sounds like you are not in the diamond business, despite your trade designation, so perhaps a store and probably have as much knowledge of diamonds as any other store person I have met (which generally stops at color and clarity).

I am not exactly sure what answer you are expecting, and though it would have been better if you'd hadn't come in all guns blazing, you may find some basic answers with which to discuss things if you use the search function up top and ask questions based on what you may find. I'm just not sure how you expect the consumers on the forum to have an answer to a question that you as a trade member/store owner don't have?

FOr example, I searched Kimberly Process because you are more likely to see discussions from some of the big name trade members in the seriously technical threads:

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/kimberley-process-analysis.144330/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/kimberley-process-analysis.144330/[/URL]

 

[Christina...]

I'm going to take a stab at this and guess that you are a vendor with a potential client who wants to source an ethically mined stone and that BE is your competition?

I don't believe that anyone here is going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. It would seem that contacting BE directly would be the more logically choice. This is an consumer forum, we aren't privy to business models, I would suggest contacting BE and working your way up the ladder until all of your questions are satisfactorily answered....or not.

 

[bunnycat]

I'm going to take a stab at this and guess that you are a vendor with a potential client who wants to source an ethically mined stone and that BE is your competition?

I don't believe that anyone here is going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. It would seem that contacting BE directly would be the more logically choice. This is an consumer forum, we aren't privy to business models, I would suggest contacting BE and working your way up the ladder until all of your questions are satisfactorily answered....or not.

Christina, you may have hit the nail on the head. That would account for the "prove it to me" vibes and if that's the case, then yeah, the only way to get any sort of answer is directly to the company you have an issue with.

 

[denverappraiser]

No offense Rocky, but they are guaranteeing origin. Does no one else have a problem with this?

Mostly they're a pretty well regarded outfit but 'guarantee' is a tricky word. If you can prove one of their stones is not the origin they claim, they'll give you a refund. That gives you the same problem that you're pointing out that they have. There is no scientific test for location of a mine, much less the cutting. All of that comes from provenance, and that's a matter of trust. They're telling you that they trust their suppliers and that you should trust them. I think in the case of the Canadian, Russian and Botswanan products they sell, there's an authentication source in the respective country that's making the claim and they're just parroting it. Is it correct? Maybe. I would even say probably. It's the same way that you know that you're organic tomatoes from Whole Foods are organic or that your chicken is 'free range' by the way. They claim it. You trust WF for lack of a reason not to, and you buy them. If new information comes to light at some point that suggest otherwise, don't just hold it against the tomatoes, hold it against Whole Foods.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’ve been long surprised at how little effort goes into this. SOMEONE mined every single diamond and THEY know when and where it came from. Chances are good that their boss does too. The cutter knows who cut it, etc. Whether or not this information makes it’s way through the supply chain to you is a matter of whether it’s valuable. This is a world where they claim they can track the beef in your McHamburger to the specific Argentine cow or at least group of cows that was killed for it after all. The problem is that most people don’t care. Keeping track of this sort of thing takes effort, it takes money and it takes an incentive.