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Let''s Talk Old Cuts

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luckynumber

luckynumber

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
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665
Right folks,

Tell me what you look for in a desirable old mine cut or old european cut.

What attracts you to them?

How do you decide which one is good and which one is a dud?

There is no formula I know, but pics of what you think is a great old cut would be great.

Please, share all your knowledge!

If oldminer or erica are out there, your expert input in all things old (in the diamond sense!) would be much appreicated.

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I love vintage cut stones!!! The things I find that consistently attract me are a high crown, smallish table, and chunky symmetrical faceting. Other than that I love all colors, shapes, and sizes.
 
thanks upgradable!

any more opinions out there?
 
It''s impossible to set down any real parameters for old cuts - each one is unique and has its own personality. Some of the things I personally look for is overall condition (polish, chips, etc.), liveliness, tons of fire, decent symmetry, and just great character!

My advice to people considering old cuts is to look at tons of pics, and stones in person if possible. Figure out what types of facet patterns you are drawn to and rank the qualities you''re looking for in order of priority. Use a good and trustworthy vendor who can be your eyes and send you video clips. There are so many beautiful antique diamonds out there that don''t fit into any mold, but there are also dogs to be found.

Let me know if I can help in any way!
 
It's all in the eyes for me. I just know it when I see it.

But typically, I love a medium to small-ish culet, nice high crown, and I absolutely love a really crisp facet pattern with as much symmetry as possible. As few chips as possible and a healthy amount of fire.

I actually worried that my OEC was a CZ when I first received it because of all of the fire it threw off, but after having it tested by my jeweler, and seeing many more OECs cut as well as mine, I realized I had just never seen a really firey diamond before. There's just nothing like an antique cut. I wish I had discovered them sooner.
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I think looking at as many old cuts as you can in person is a great idea for you to get an idea of what attracts your eye. What one person loves isn't always it for another.

Me, I tend to gravitate towards more fiery OECs. I like a particularly small table, a nice high crown you can see from the side, and a larger (but not huge) culet. And I like some symmetry to the stone- I like when you can see a nice snowflakey pattern in them. I also like some body color to the older cuts- L/M/N is pretty much my favorite color range for them.

Transitional cuts aren't it for me usually. Some people adore the way a lot of them have better symmetry and sometimes even fat arrows, and are often balanced towards more white light return over fire, and smaller culets. (And often really good spread too). But, although I have a very nice TC, it just doesn't grab me the way the OECs do. (Of course this is a huge generalization about TCs- they can be all over the map.)

There are a lot of OECs out there that I don't love when I see them in person. Usually it's a poor cut that does it- too deep or too shallow, and thus the stone won't perform real well, or really chaotic facets. Basically to evaluate an old cut I just check to see that it sparkles from edge to edge, and I prefer if I can compare it to one of my own OECs that I know are well cut, side by side. Often it's the center of the diamond that is a bit lazy- like the facets just sit there and won't do much.

Condition is important to check for too. So many old stones have really, really thin girdles- I'm usually OK with one or two chips that aren't visible to the naked eye.

If I'm weeding through a huge virtual list of old cuts like Old World Diamond's I usually use the depth and table size and the picture to try to find the ones more likely to be good performers. I usually look at the ones with depth of 60%-63%, and tables smaller than the high 50s (the smaller the better for an OEC's table in my opinion, but that's definitely a personal taste thing.) Not to say that old cuts outside of those stats are not good- it's just a way to deal with a huge virtual list.
 
Besides JBEG, and Old World Diamonds, which I have never heard about til now, where else would you suggest looking for these older cuts (or new versions of these older cuts)?
 
I look for a pleasing pattern of chunky light and dark and brightness. I don''t like it when I see a bow-tie or cross when looking into the center of the stone, rather what I like is when I see a pattern like a flower inside. This may sound strange, but it is the best I can describe it.
 
Singlestone. Ebay if you''re careful- that''s where I''ve gotten a lot of mine... YMMV, I tend to stalk particular sellers I''ve used before like Dover Jewelry on eBay.
 
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/european-cut-diamond.3875/

There are some parameters given for OEC in that old thread, as well as some comments from the PS appraisers.

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There are old varieties of round brilliant, too. I copied this from someplace on the Internet, years ago. I don't claim that it's 100% correct. ;-D

Eppler Cut, and the Scandanavian Cut, that look just like the Tolkowsky Cut, but the height is at 58%.
Benchmark; Crown height; Pavilion depth; Table diameter; Girdle thickness; Crown angle; Pavilion angle
American Standard 16.2% 43.1% 53.0% N/A 34.5° 40.75°
Practical Fine Cut 14.4% 43.2% 56.0% N/A 33.2° 40.8°
Scandinavian Standard 14.6% 43.1% 57.5% N/A 34.5° 40.75° (sometimes 34° / 40°)
Eulitz Brilliant(1972) 14.45% 43.15% 56.5% 1.5% 33.36° 40.48°
Ideal Brilliant (1929) 19.2% 40.0% 56.1% N/A 41.1° 38.7°
Parker Brilliant(1951) 10.5% 43.4% 55.9% N/A 25.5° 40.9°
Eppler 14.4% - 56.0% - 34° 40° (overall depth 57.7%)
Tolkowsky (1919) 16.2% - 53% - 34° 40° (overall depth 59.3%)

http://www.khulsey.com/jewelry/modern_round_brilliant_cut_diamond.html
 
I love the flowery patterns and an open culet. After recently buying an F colored OEC I will never go higher then a G color. I think they are more attractive in lower colors.
 
I like small culet, high crown, near colorless, best clarity as possible and medium girdle.

After that, you probably can see the rainbow colors! It''s exactly what I got on Ebay after several years of research.
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Date: 3/28/2010 5:57:31 PM
Author: LisaRN
I love the flowery patterns and an open culet. After recently buying an F colored OEC I will never go higher then a G color. I think they are more attractive in lower colors.
Click to expand...
Can someone show me what they mean by flower pattern, I would love to see what this means to different consumers as this look seems popular to many vintage cut lovers.
 
Here..., where the lgf just pass the table junction borders.

FlowerEffect.jpg
 
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