Let the controvery begin!

[trillionaire]

How the Rich Are Different From You and Me
Places that went for Obama are richer and smarter than places that went for McCain.
Bill Bishop | Dec. 11, 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2206512/

 

[strmrdr]

more education does not equal smarter
I find the opposite to true a lot of the time :}

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 12/12/2008 6:06:20 PM
Author: strmrdr
more education does not equal smarter
I find the opposite to true a lot of the time :}

Yes, and less education does not equal dumber. I''ve noted this frequently myself...

 

[HollyS]

Date: 12/12/2008 6:00:48 PM
Author:trillionaire
How the Rich Are Different From You and Me
Places that went for Obama are richer and smarter than places that went for McCain.
Bill Bishop | Dec. 11, 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2206512/

Oh my. That kinda skewers the political take on demographics, doesn''t it? Guess the Republican party isn''t the party of the rich anymore.

''Richer'' you can qualify , but ''smarter''?? How exactly does one measure the IQs of voters? Assume? Presume? An awful lot of people with ''blue collar'' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin'' job or degree.

 

[onvacation]

Something tells me those Obama-supportive demographics are going to be very much inline with the PS demographics.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 12/12/2008 6:10:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 12/12/2008 6:00:48 PM
Author:trillionaire
How the Rich Are Different From You and Me
Places that went for Obama are richer and smarter than places that went for McCain.
Bill Bishop | Dec. 11, 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2206512/

Oh my. That kinda skewers the political take on demographics, doesn't it? Guess the Republican party isn't the party of the rich anymore.

'Richer' you can qualify , but 'smarter'?? How exactly does one measure the IQs of voters? Assume? Presume? An awful lot of people with 'blue collar' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin' job or degree.

Lol, seems that you have an idea of how to define 'smarter,' based on your statement that "An awful lot of people with 'blue collar' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin' job or degree. "

I really wonder if writers TRY to be sensational by saying these things, or if they just like to be divisive. I mean really... And even the world "richer" is misleading, since we typically hear that the wealthiest areas tend to vote Repub. So is the stratification intensifying, or disappating?

 

[HollyS]

Date: 12/12/2008 6:15:20 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 12/12/2008 6:10:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 12/12/2008 6:00:48 PM
Author:trillionaire
How the Rich Are Different From You and Me
Places that went for Obama are richer and smarter than places that went for McCain.
Bill Bishop | Dec. 11, 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2206512/

Oh my. That kinda skewers the political take on demographics, doesn''t it? Guess the Republican party isn''t the party of the rich anymore.

''Richer'' you can qualify , but ''smarter''?? How exactly does one measure the IQs of voters? Assume? Presume? An awful lot of people with ''blue collar'' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin'' job or degree.

Lol, seems that you have an idea of how to define ''smarter,'' based on your statement that ''An awful lot of people with ''blue collar'' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin'' job or degree. ''

I really wonder if writers TRY to be sensational by saying these things, or if they just like to be divisive. I mean really... And even the world ''richer'' is misleading, since we typically hear that the wealthiest areas tend to vote Repub. So is the stratification intensifying, or disappating?

I was being divisive? I thought I was asking a question. I didn''t realize that you did not post to receive comments, questions, or opinions. I apologize for crashing the party.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 12/12/2008 7:06:45 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 12/12/2008 6:15:20 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 12/12/2008 6:10:40 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 12/12/2008 6:00:48 PM
Author:trillionaire
How the Rich Are Different From You and Me
Places that went for Obama are richer and smarter than places that went for McCain.
Bill Bishop | Dec. 11, 2008

http://www.slate.com/id/2206512/

Oh my. That kinda skewers the political take on demographics, doesn''t it? Guess the Republican party isn''t the party of the rich anymore.

''Richer'' you can qualify , but ''smarter''?? How exactly does one measure the IQs of voters? Assume? Presume? An awful lot of people with ''blue collar'' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin'' job or degree.

Lol, seems that you have an idea of how to define ''smarter,'' based on your statement that ''An awful lot of people with ''blue collar'' jobs are as smart, if not smarter, than someone with a high-falutin'' job or degree. ''

I really wonder if writers TRY to be sensational by saying these things, or if they just like to be divisive. I mean really... And even the world ''richer'' is misleading, since we typically hear that the wealthiest areas tend to vote Repub. So is the stratification intensifying, or disappating?

I was being divisive? I thought I was asking a question. I didn''t realize that you did not post to receive comments, questions, or opinions. I apologize for crashing the party.

Holly, my bad. I was talking about the writer of the original article, not you! I only was responding to you Pre-winki face!

apologies!

 

[iheartscience]

A well-known political scientist spoke to my class a few weeks ago and he brought this exact issue up! I thought it was very interesting that even the people who will presumably be hurt by Obama''s tax plan still voted for him more than they voted for McCain.

The Republican Party is really going to have to redefine itself unless it wants to become (or remain, some could argue-note that I said SOME, not I) the party of intolerance. For example, they''ve lost a LOT of ground among Hispanic voters because of the party''s stance on immigration.

It should be interesting to see the direction they go! I love politics...it is just so high drama!

 

[starsapphire]

Date: 12/13/2008 1:03:28 AM
Author: thing2of2
A well-known political scientist spoke to my class a few weeks ago and he brought this exact issue up! I thought it was very interesting that even the people who will presumably be hurt by Obama''s tax plan still voted for him more than they voted for McCain.

The Republican Party is really going to have to redefine itself unless it wants to become (or remain, some could argue-note that I said SOME, not I) the party of intolerance. For example, they''ve lost a LOT of ground among Hispanic voters because of the party''s stance on immigration.

It should be interesting to see the direction they go! I love politics...it is just so high drama!

Would that be the stance that they need to come here LEGALLY? Wow, now THAT is intolerant!

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/13/2008 9:17:54 AM
Author: starsapphire

Date: 12/13/2008 1:03:28 AM

Author: thing2of2

A well-known political scientist spoke to my class a few weeks ago and he brought this exact issue up! I thought it was very interesting that even the people who will presumably be hurt by Obama''s tax plan still voted for him more than they voted for McCain.

The Republican Party is really going to have to redefine itself unless it wants to become (or remain, some could argue-note that I said SOME, not I) the party of intolerance. For example, they''ve lost a LOT of ground among Hispanic voters because of the party''s stance on immigration.



It should be interesting to see the direction they go! I love politics...it is just so high drama!

Would that be the stance that they need to come here LEGALLY? Wow, now THAT is intolerant!

The people they''re appealing to the most with that stance are lower income whites who are looking for a scapegoat. For example, in my parents'' county, one Republican candidate running for local election had as part of his platform that he was going to pass a resolution making English the official language of the county. What is the point of that? Wait, I know! To appeal to the racists whites in the more rural areas who aren''t too happy about the foreigners. My parents, who vote Republican about 100% of the time, didn''t vote for that candidate specifically because of his pointless intolerance.

Lower income whites are also the only group the Republican party was appealing to when they called Obama a terrorist, said they were all about "small town" values, said small town America was the real America, etc. So yeah, it is intolerant, and it cost them tons of seats in the House and Senate, as well as the presidency. Wait...on second thought, I hope they keep going with their messages of intolerance and ignorance!

 

[Rhea]

Date: 12/13/2008 10:15:34 AM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/13/2008 9:17:54 AM

Author: starsapphire

Date: 12/13/2008 1:03:28 AM


Author: thing2of2


A well-known political scientist spoke to my class a few weeks ago and he brought this exact issue up! I thought it was very interesting that even the people who will presumably be hurt by Obama''s tax plan still voted for him more than they voted for McCain.


The Republican Party is really going to have to redefine itself unless it wants to become (or remain, some could argue-note that I said SOME, not I) the party of intolerance. For example, they''ve lost a LOT of ground among Hispanic voters because of the party''s stance on immigration.





It should be interesting to see the direction they go! I love politics...it is just so high drama!

Would that be the stance that they need to come here LEGALLY? Wow, now THAT is intolerant!

The people they''re appealing to the most with that stance are lower income whites who are looking for a scapegoat. For example, in my parents'' county, one Republican candidate running for local election had as part of his platform that he was going to pass a resolution making English the official language of the county. What is the point of that? Wait, I know! To appeal to the racists whites in the more rural areas who aren''t too happy about the foreigners. My parents, who vote Republican about 100% of the time, didn''t vote for that candidate specifically because of his pointless intolerance.


Lower income whites are also the only group the Republican party was appealing to when they called Obama a terrorist, said they were all about ''small town'' values, said small town America was the real America, etc. So yeah, it is intolerant, and it cost them tons of seats in the House and Senate, as well as the presidency. Wait...on second thought, I hope they keep going with their messages of intolerance and ignorance!

The current party in power in the UK is cracking down on immigrants. I think that in the long-run it will hurt them and they will be voted out next election. The changing immigration laws are making it hard for people to legally get into the country, but, in my opinion, will do nothing about illegal immigration. Immigrants are the whipping boy right now, but people really do forget how much it effects every legal immigrant. Illegal immigrants will still be present because no amount of ID cards or raising the marriage age will stop people from entring the country, overstaying their welcome, working for cash in hand, and eventually getting the government''s help. It just causes hoops for the rest of us who are here legally. It''s a hot topic right now.

 

[Nocturnius]

Being a college student myself, I can vouch for the fact that "durhhur, I have a college degree" does not mean, "I''m intelligent". I know several people who are very much the opposite of intelligent, but they have college degrees. All a degree means is that you were able to sit through classes and receive a grade of C or better. It does not mean that you are intelligent or that you learned anything in those classes.

And for that matter, how about this for statistics: Every person in my pre-medical classes (biology, chemistry, physics, anatomy) voted McCain. These are people who have at least 3.5 GPAs (as our program won''t accept anyone with less than that, and you''ll be kicked out if you fall under it), are all intending to go on to medical school, and would all be considered the cream of the crop as far as intelligence goes (you don''t want a dummy operating do you, do you? Well, medical schools don''t, either.) And at the same time, I would say 90% of them are on the poor side, receiving FAFSA financial aid to pay for school. So what about us poor, smart people? Where do we fit into the demographics?

All the "college degree" says is what everyone already knows: liberals and Democrats have a tendency to go to school and pursue degrees moreso than conservatives and Republicans. It doesn''t say that they''re smarter.

But here''s something interesting that should be considered. Everyone keeps talking about how we shouldn''t have divided parties, we should all be unified, we should all be on the same side, one party, yadda yadda. But the parties are divided based on what they believe. If we''re all one party... it would mean we would all have to think the same. And if we didn''t, then those of us who disagreed with the majority would just have our voices lost. Is that really something you want to happen? Because I don''t.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 12/14/2008 9:30:16 AM
Author: Nocturnius

But here''s something interesting that should be considered. Everyone keeps talking about how we shouldn''t have divided parties, we should all be unified, we should all be on the same side, one party, yadda yadda. But the parties are divided based on what they believe. If we''re all one party... it would mean we would all have to think the same. And if we didn''t, then those of us who disagreed with the majority would just have our voices lost. Is that really something you want to happen? Because I don''t.

I personally want more parties with more choices.

Further, it IS important to note if there is a political divergence in educational attainment. Higher ed is a precusor to a JD, MBA, MA/MS, MD, PhD, etc... if these are skewing and becoming stratified towards the direction of liberalization, then it is an important trend to watch. It may just seem ''annoyingly troublesome'' right now while there are plenty of older Repubs with ed in power, but the more educated and powerful (financially) one party becomes, the scarier it could be for EVERYONE in the future. (Not that I think it will get that extreme, but it is worth keeping an eye on)

 

[icekid]

Date: 12/14/2008 9:30:16 AM
Author: Nocturnius


And for that matter, how about this for statistics: Every person in my pre-medical classes (biology, chemistry, physics, anatomy) voted McCain. These are people who have at least 3.5 GPAs (as our program won''t accept anyone with less than that, and you''ll be kicked out if you fall under it), are all intending to go on to medical school, and would all be considered the cream of the crop as far as intelligence goes (you don''t want a dummy operating do you, do you? Well, medical schools don''t, either.) And at the same time, I would say 90% of them are on the poor side, receiving FAFSA financial aid to pay for school. So what about us poor, smart people? Where do we fit into the demographics?

Just wanted to say.. I am a doctor, consider the majority of my colleagues to be reasonably bright, and I don''t know of anyone who (openly haha) voted for McCain. Perhaps this is a product of where you attend school?

This is an interesting conversation though!

And I am definitely with you trillionaire, on the MORE parties, MORE choices, please!

 

[tradergirl]

Yeah, it takes a real genius to be sucked in by Blago, Rahm Emanuel, ChuckYou Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc.

Not to mention:

Bernie Madoff

You all relax in the safety of your own delusions. It''s going to get rough out there when the Messiah has to actually take responsibility for what is going on.

 

[risingsun]

In my family and in my culture, getting the best education possible is part of our value system. Getting an education does not mean occupying a seat in a classroom, it means excelling in your academic career. I take pride in what I have accomplished. My colleagues are also well educated and intelligent people. If they were not, they would have been screened out of our practice. This disdain for higher education is disturbing. If you don''t want to pursue this course for yourself, then don''t. There is no need to disparage those who have done.

A comment for tradergirl: Evidently, you are a Judaic scholar. I shall expect Obama at my Passover table this year. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/14/2008 1:51:16 PM
Author: risingsun
In my family and in my culture, getting the best education possible is part of our value system. Getting an education does not mean occupying a seat in a classroom, it means excelling in your academic career. I take pride in what I have accomplished. My colleagues are also well educated and intelligent people. If they were not, they would have been screened out of our practice. This disdain for higher education is disturbing. If you don't want to pursue this course for yourself, then don't. There is no need to disparage those who have done.


A comment for tradergirl: Evidently, you are a Judaic scholar. I shall expect Obama at my Passover table this year. Thanks for the heads up!

No, the disdain for working folks is what is truly disgusting.
The people that think because they have a degree they are better is truly disgusting.
The people that think they are entitled to earn more than working folks because they have a degree is truly disgusting.
I loved the dot com bust, supposedly smart people throwing good money after bad into stupid ideas.
Anyone with an once of sense knew they were going to go bust.

 

[risingsun]

^^^You are highly educated in the diamond industry. Is that something for which you should apologize? I don't think so. The tone of this thread has been to undercut the benefits of a good education. That doesn't make any sense to me. There are intelligent people in all walks of life. No one is arguing that point. I said nothing in my post that indicated disdain for anyone.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/14/2008 2:41:04 PM
Author: risingsun
^^^You are highly educated in the diamond industry. Is that something for which you should apologize? I don''t think so. The tone of this thread has been to undercut the benefits of a good education. That doesn''t make any sense to me. There are intelligent people in all walks of life. No one is arguing that point. I said nothing in my post that indicated disdain for anyone.

I was just posting a counter point to the section in bold of your post.
The disdain goes both ways in a lot of cases.

There is nothing to apologize for because I don''t think that knowing a lot about diamonds makes me better than anyone else.
I do it for fun and because I love learning new stuff.
It is actually getting boring because there is not enough new stuff coming along to learn.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 12/14/2008 2:57:06 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 12/14/2008 2:41:04 PM
Author: risingsun
^^^You are highly educated in the diamond industry. Is that something for which you should apologize? I don't think so. The tone of this thread has been to undercut the benefits of a good education. That doesn't make any sense to me. There are intelligent people in all walks of life. No one is arguing that point. I said nothing in my post that indicated disdain for anyone.

I was just posting a counter point to the section in bold of your post.
The disdain goes both ways in a lot of cases.

There is nothing to apologize for because I don't think that knowing a lot about diamonds makes me better than anyone else.
I do it for fun and because I love learning new stuff.
It is actually getting boring because there is not enough new stuff coming along to learn.

I don't think my education makes me better than anyone else, either. It does, however, allow me to care for those who need my help. If diamonds are beginning to bore you, what comes next

 

[Haven]

Date: 12/14/2008 2:41:04 PM
Author: risingsun
^^^You are highly educated in the diamond industry. Is that something for which you should apologize? I don''t think so. The tone of this thread has been to undercut the benefits of a good education. That doesn''t make any sense to me. There are intelligent people in all walks of life. No one is arguing that point. I said nothing in my post that indicated disdain for anyone.

Thank you for this post, Risingsun. This thread has a most distasteful tone.

 

[FrekeChild]

You know what I find disturbing...is that there are many many American students out there right now that cannot write a paper. They are being pushed through the school systems, awarded As, Bs and Cs, graduating from high school, and they don''t know what a verb is. Or a noun, or an adjective. And they have passed high school.

How is this possible? (<--rhetorical)


As for richer and smarter, I believe that there are statistics out there that say that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to be liberal, because you''re exposed to more situations, circumstances, and what is going on with the world. I think that''s interesting. Of course, as with everything, this is not 100%, and people have their own beliefs, views and morals which steer their lives.

But still, it''s interesting.

And I also don''t like the tone of this thread...

 

[trillionaire]

To say that, in this particular election, areas where Dems voted heavily were more educated and better off financially than areas where Repubs voted heavily is not a judgment. If this is a fact, it just is. What is useful is to try to understand this phenomenon, and its implications. What does it say about our political map, our geographic trends, and our political affiliations? Rather than getting defensive (and yes, I acknowledge that the tone of the article lends to that), perhaps those angered should be focused on what the take away is. If I was going to redesign my party, I would certainly want to know the situation on the ground so that I could make the best decisions about new directions.

 

[Haven]

Date: 12/14/2008 4:52:33 PM
Author: FrekeChild
You know what I find disturbing...is that there are many many American students out there right now that cannot write a paper. They are being pushed through the school systems, awarded As, Bs and Cs, graduating from high school, and they don''t know what a verb is. Or a noun, or an adjective. And they have passed high school.

How is this possible? (<--rhetorical)

Easy answer, four words: No Child Left Behind.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/14/2008 12:50:08 PM
Author: tradergirl
Yeah, it takes a real genius to be sucked in by Blago, Rahm Emanuel, ChuckYou Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc.

Not to mention:

Bernie Madoff

You all relax in the safety of your own delusions. It''s going to get rough out there when the Messiah has to actually take responsibility for what is going on.

Your opinions would probably be taken a little more seriously if you said something different every once in a while. Oh, and refraining from calling people delusional would probably help, too.

All I ever see you post is "Short selling...short...Messiah...shorted...The Holy One...short selling...Messiah....short....shorted...Obama sucks...short." Might be a good idea to expand your vocabulary!

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 12/14/2008 6:31:37 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/14/2008 12:50:08 PM

Author: tradergirl

Yeah, it takes a real genius to be sucked in by Blago, Rahm Emanuel, ChuckYou Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc.


Not to mention:


Bernie Madoff


You all relax in the safety of your own delusions. It''s going to get rough out there when the Messiah has to actually take responsibility for what is going on.

Your opinions would probably be taken a little more seriously if you said something different every once in a while. Oh, and refraining from calling people delusional would probably help, too.


All I ever see you post is ''Short selling...short...Messiah...shorted...The Holy One...short selling...Messiah....short....shorted...Obama sucks...short.'' Might be a good idea to expand your vocabulary!

Please find a mop and bucket please for I have peed my pants.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 12/14/2008 6:33:25 PM
Author: MoonWater

Date: 12/14/2008 6:31:37 PM

Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/14/2008 12:50:08 PM

Author: tradergirl

Yeah, it takes a real genius to be sucked in by Blago, Rahm Emanuel, ChuckYou Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc.

Not to mention:

Bernie Madoff

You all relax in the safety of your own delusions. It''s going to get rough out there when the Messiah has to actually take responsibility for what is going on.

Your opinions would probably be taken a little more seriously if you said something different every once in a while. Oh, and refraining from calling people delusional would probably help, too.

All I ever see you post is ''Short selling...short...Messiah...shorted...The Holy One...short selling...Messiah....short....shorted...Obama sucks...short.'' Might be a good idea to expand your vocabulary!

Please find a mop and bucket please for I have peed my pants.

Hahaha! Thought you might like that, Moon!

 

[MoonWater]

 

[E B]

Date: 12/14/2008 6:31:37 PM
Author: thing2of2

Date: 12/14/2008 12:50:08 PM

Author: tradergirl

Yeah, it takes a real genius to be sucked in by Blago, Rahm Emanuel, ChuckYou Schumer, Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, etc.


Not to mention:


Bernie Madoff


You all relax in the safety of your own delusions. It''s going to get rough out there when the Messiah has to actually take responsibility for what is going on.

Your opinions would probably be taken a little more seriously if you said something different every once in a while. Oh, and refraining from calling people delusional would probably help, too.


All I ever see you post is ''Short selling...short...Messiah...shorted...The Holy One...short selling...Messiah....short....shorted...Obama sucks...short.'' Might be a good idea to expand your vocabulary!

Oh, Thing, how I heart thee.