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Leo Diamond v. Diamond Online

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maddyd51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
5
Can you help me determine which diamond is a better deal?

The one my fiance got me is a Leo Diamond, .71 carat, I, SI2 with good and good for polish and symmetry, no flouresence and no for culet and $3700. I hope I don''t betray my ignorance with this description - I am still learning. He bought me this because he liked the look and wanted something to give to me. Subsequently, and within the time period we can return the Leo, he found the diamond below online. The one below has a GIA report and the Leo is IGI. Which is the better deal, in your opinion? Seems obvious to me but I want some expert advice.

.9, F, SI1, Depth 63.5%, Clarity 57%, GIA, gir tn-m, cul no, sym vg, pol ex, flo no, 6.14-6.18x3.91, $3553
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
While the 0.90 is probably waaaaay better than the Leo (I don't mean to be rude, but since you can still return it, it's better to face things...
), I wouldn't buy it...
The depth is quite high at 63.5% and the stone has a thin to medium girdle. It's a small thickness, that combined with hagh depth, suggests a pretty deep pavilion...
I did a small research on the internet and I found these beautiful super ideal cuts that appear to be within your price-range:

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=122&Product_Subcategory_ID=2&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=387&Product_Subcategory_ID=2&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

Shape A Cut Above H&A @ 3186$
Carat 0.747
Color G
Clarity SI1
Measurements (mm) 5.82-5.84 x 3.6
Table % 56
Depth % 61.9
Crown Angle ° 34.2
Crown % 14.8
Pavilion Angle ° 40.9
Pavilion % 43.1
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle 1.2%-1.7% Thin to Medium Faceted
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Inert


Shape A Cut Above H&A @ 3750$
Carat 0.96
Color I
Clarity SI2
Measurements (mm) 6.30-6.34 x 3.94
Table % 55
Depth % 62.2
Crown Angle ° 34
Crown % 15.2
Pavilion Angle ° 40.9
Pavilion % 43.3
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick 1.3% to 1.9% Faceted
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible


Shape A Cut Above H&A @ 3780$
Carat 0.804
Color F
Clarity SI1
Measurements (mm) 5.93-5.96 x 3.67
Table % 57
Depth % 61.8
Crown Angle ° 34.2
Crown % 14.5
Pavilion Angle ° 40.9
Pavilion % 43.1
Polish Ideal
Symmetry Ideal
Girdle 1.2%-1.9% Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Inert

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/0717fsi1_ags956303/index.htm
http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/082dsi1_gia12328490/index.htm

These are just a few suggestions...

Giangi
 

maddyd51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
5
If 63.5 is high, what should I be looking for? Does the deep pavilion mean that it will "leak" and not be as brilliant?
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792

----------------

If 63.5 is high, what should I be looking for? Does the deep pavilion mean that it will "leak" and not be as brilliant?

----------------

First of all, nobody can tell you that any diamond is going to be better than the Leo diamond without knowing more about it... What are the details of the Leo diamond you have?

Who graded the diamond?
Measurements:
Total Depth:
Crown Angle:
Pavilion Angle:
Girdle Thickness:
Culet Size:
Polish:
Symmetry:

Regarding the other diamond - 63.5% is simply too deep - what you "think" you are gaining in size / carat weight, you are actually losing in outside diameter because as the total depth of the diamond increases, the outside diameter decreases and that's what you actually see... Here is what we would recommend you look for:

Total Depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter: 54 - 56%
Crown angle: 34.3 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle: 40.5 - 40.9 degrees
Girdle: thin, thin to medium, medium (preferably faceted or polished)
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed
Polish: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal (we're purists - most people are fine with Very Good)
Symmetry: Same

Odds are that you can find a better diamond from one of the on-line vendors listed here on Price Scope, but if you're going to do so, finding one within the specifications listed above is more likely to be a true upgrade.

Congratulations on your engagement! Even though you haven't settled on the ring yet, we know you must be very excited
 

maddyd51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
5
I included the information on the Leo Diamond in my first post, in the paragraph. Now I have the IGI report on it in front of me. Here is the info on the Leo:

.71
Depth 62
Table 58
Girdle slightly thick to thick
Culet none
Polish good
Symmetry good
Clarity SI2
Color I
Flouresence none
Cost 3900

For quick comparison, here is the diamond we ordered online;
.90
Depth 63.5
Table 57
Girdle, thin to medium faceted
Culet none
Polish excellent
Symmetry very good
Clarity SI1
Color F
Flouresence none
Cost 3553

So I think the obvious answer is return the leo, but I need affirmation! Please help! Is 3553 too much to pay for this diamond?
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
not sure about the price, because I'm too lazy to do research.
But, I will tell you that the deeper pavilion suggests that the diamond will leak light and more importantly, carries extra weight (will look smaller) that is going to increasing the price, and not the beauty. We'd need crown and pavilion angle to be sure, but it's a pretty safe bet.

Having owned and returned a leo, I say return it, because I don't like them next to a well cut stone.

Did you not like any of the stones Giangi posted? We can help you find a well cut stone if you need the extra support.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Return the Leo. Those weird extra facets are nothing more than a marketing ploy for your $$. As you can see from the stones Giangi posted, you can get more carat weight in an *excellent* cut stone for the same if not less $$.

Cancel the order on the second stone you posted about. It has too much depth and as the others noted, you will be paying for more carat weight than your eye will actually see. It may even look like a .80c stone instead of a .90c.

View the stones that Giangi posted. Those are SuperIdeal Hearts and Arrows A Cut Above Stones as well as some other H&A's. Those are EXCELLENTLY cut stones. You will not have to worry about too much depth, or some weird no-purpose facets. These are good stones, and you will see the details if you view their IdealScope images and their Hearts and Arrows images. These stones hands-down are going to be 100% more beautiful than your Leo diamond.

I am only being this blunt because obviously you are close to making a decision or have already on returning the Leo and getting a new stone. Don't make a mistake on purchasing the second stone without doing the research first, or you might as well keep that original Leo. Buying stones and returning them gets old after a while, a little patience and some research will go a long way.

Good luck!
 

maddyd51

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
5
FYI - the crown angles on the second diamond are 35. I forgot to write down the pavilion angles (my bad).
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
It sounds like the stone has a pretty deep pavilion... A 35' crown with 57% table should be about 15% and if the girdle is about 3 to 3.5% at the thickest points which is common for thin to med (using HRD standard), the pavilion should be APPROXIMATELY 45% or about 42'. This is pretty deep. I'd pass on this one...
 
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