leave diamond with jeweler

[tapandjj]

I am having an engagement ring made. Although I have the cert.for the stone, should I really feel safe leaving it for a few weeks for them to set?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Depends on the jeweler.

Most are honest, and you've got nothing to worry about. There are some crooks out there though.

I would suggest asking around about the jeweler. You could ask your friends, call around to jewelry related professionals, check with the BBB, ask the jeweler respectful but pointed questions and see how he handles him/herself.

Ask him to show you how to identify your diamond, even if you already know how, and see what he says about it.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Yep, you should feel safe if you have a certificate to verify the stone you get back is the same stone (plot map is the safest way to double check) and certainly, a reputable jeweler is of course important.

I was super nervous leaving my D stone with a jeweler, even though it isn't very big, but all went smoothly!

Good luck and be sure to post the ring when it's completed.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I am with you Feydakin.

Any customer who doubts my staffs, or my intergrity usually has a problem of their own.

I can not remeber the last time someone asked to check the plot to see if their diamond had been swapped.

Now if you dropped your diamond into a pawn shop, or some place that looks like they might up and leave overnight - then you probably choose the cheapest service provider, and maybe you should be worried?

 

[strmrdr]

Learn how to recognize your diamond.
Buy a 10x loop for a vs2 or lower clarity stone and a 20x loupe for a higher clarity stone.
Then study your diamond.
Then check the jeweler out and if everything looks ok trust but verify.
Check your diamond in the store with the loupe when you drop it off.
Then bring your loupe with you and check the stone as soon as you pick up the ring before leaving the store.
That wont stop a real crook but it would give a semi-honest jeweler second thoughts about messing with you and should cause no problems with an honest jeweler.

 

[strmrdr]

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On 10/9/2004 11:45:23 PM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

I am with you Feydakin.


Any customer who doubts my staffs, or my intergrity usually has a problem of their own.


I can not remeber the last time someone asked to check the plot to see if their diamond had been swapped.


Now if you dropped your diamond into a pawn shop, or some place that looks like they might up and leave overnight - then you probably choose the cheapest service provider, and maybe you should be worried?----------------

Fuuny in a post complaining about people always assuming jewlers are crooks is a jewler assuming that all pawnshop owners are crooks.
hmmmmmmmm

 

[kevinng]

Not all jewellers are honest. This is a story of a very reputable jeweller in Singapore (who has been around for ages), who decided that he can perhaps pull a fast one:

House of Hung

Jewellers are people, and people have greed. We are all working on the assumption that jewellers have far more to lose if they switch stones, which is true in most cases. However, if the jeweller is hitting a financial crisis, or a particular staff working at the jeweller's shop is having cash flow problems, then anything can happen.

Jewellers (and their staff) observe your habits as well. If you are the sort to check your diamond every time you leave the shop, you are obviously a bad target. If you are the one who walks out of the shop without checking all the time, then good luck to you.

I am a bank regulator, and I have seen people who had been working for 20-30 years in the bank, suddenly took a turn and decided to milk the system. It is precisely because they aer long-serving staff with a good reputation that they are able to do this. They know the system, and people trust them, so when they hit a financial crisis, they can work the system.

When dealing with most high value items, common sense will tell you that you need to put in a system of checks. Whether you trust the jeweller or not, whether it is a pawnshop or Garry's shop, when taking things out of the safe deposit box at the bank, etc... it does not hurt to do a quick check.

 

[Jeweller]

Hi,
I am a jeweller and my advice is to take the finished ring to an independant valuer. Give him or her the diamond grading certificate and he or she will be able to tell you whether the diamond is yours or not. Simple. You will most likely be wanting to insure the ring, so you'll need the valuation anyway.
Of course it goes without saying, if you have an uneasy feeling about the look of the store or the jeweller, go somewhere else.
Regards
Tracy

 

[starfire]

I agree with Garry.

Anyone who walks into my stores and doubts our integrity has a problem of his own.

In the first place, if the customer doubts our integrity, we would advise him to bring it to someone else he can trust. We have never had this problem, but I can imagine that I would not want to take on a job if the customer does not have trust in us anyway.

If you leave your diamond in some dingy hole in the wall, you would do well to feel worried. (Even a jeweller needs to establish some trust before giving some more expensive jobs to their goldsmiths) If you leave your diamond in a reputable jeweller, then don't worry. A jeweller will not last long by cheating his customers.

Kevin Ng mentioned that there is a chance that an otherwise good staff might suddenly turn bad. While there is a possibility of this, most decent jewellers have some form of internal control. The chances are that the jeweller will be able to detect this problem before the diamond is returned to the customer.

Then again, the chances of this happening in any given jeweller is rare. In the case of House of Hung, it would seem to me that the problem involved the management of the company and not some rogue staff. In any case this issue was settled by Singapore's legal system. This should give consumers (at least in Singapore) some reassurance.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/9/2004 11:22:07 PM Feydakin wrote:





I have to ask, do you have the same concerns when you leave your car with a mechanic?? How about when you have people to the house to do work??

I know I get a bit more upset about these threads than I should, but the story of the swapped diamond has been so hyped by the media and urban legend that it's incredibly frustrating..

You have to realize that it's very hard to stay in business if you steal from your customers.
----------------

Fed, maybe it would help you if you realized the questions likely aren't because consumers distrust you, per se.....it's because we are unconfident about our own ability to recognize our own diamonds, and we know as humans that even honest mistakes *can* happen.

Additionally, it's a fair question to ask. If you're going to enroll your kid at a daycare center, don't you ask a litany of questions up front? Don't you ask others about their experiences? Is it safe? Are the children well monitored?

Unless someone is completely naive, these are questions that need to be asked *before*, not after. It's completely reasonable to ask the questions as a matter of diligence, and you shouldn't be offended by it. You should actually applaud it, because people who do their homework typically have good experiences and come to folks like you. You should be more offended by people who don't do any diligence and then cry over something they shouldn't (and make unfounded accusations that could be harmful).

Regarding my comment about about our ability to identify that which belongs to us.......if I leave my car at the shop, I can reasonably identify that it's *my* car in several ways: license plate, VIN plate, the cookie crumbs on the floor, etc. etc. When one cannot positively identify something as theirs, it creates doubt and stress. Even something as simple as two glasses of wine sitting on the counter....people have started using those wine glass markers to identify which one is theirs.

I'd also gently point out that *distrust* isn't the only reason to be concerned with identifying one's diamond. Mistakes....honest mistakes.....can and DO happen in any industry. I took my 1996 Blue Isuzu Rodeo LS into the dealer for a 60K tuneup a few years ago. When I called at the end of the day, they mentioned they did all the work requested and also fixed the crack in the windshield fluid box. I asked why no one had mentioned it.....the mechanic said "this is the one I found yesterday". Yikes---my car wasn't THERE yesterday.

Turns out ANOTHER 1996 Blue Isuzu Rodeo (with 90K miles!) was in for repair also, and they did all my repairs to HER car. It was an easy mistake to avoid....all they had to do was check the mileage/license plate, but no one looked because what are the chances of having two of the exact same car in for service?

For those instances where trust may be a factor....you are right, it's hard to stay in business by stealing from your customers. Therein, though, lies the concern. If someone did steal from me....switch my stone....would I be able to tell? In order for it to cost a jeweler business, someone has to *know* it happened.

The less likely it is someone will get caught, the higher the temptation. It would be very hard for me to have a friend of mine attend class in my place, but if I had a twin sister and folks couldn't tell us apart, it would be very easy (and more tempting.....less risky) for my to have her attend in my place.

Diamonds are something that folks appreciate, but they feel woefully inadequate when it comes to making comparisons between stones, and that discomfort is what you're hearing. How do I know it's mine?

 

[kevinng]

Yes, some people mail me from time to time, asking me how they can trust the jewellers not to switch their diamonds. I tell them that it is unlikely for them to switch their diamonds because they want to stay in business... Most jewellers are honest. We are just trying to prevent a rare event.

I tell them that if they cannot trust the jeweller, then there is no way they can do business with the him. You have to find a jeweller you can trust.

But that does not mean that you do not check the diamond before you leave the shop. Like Stephen said, how does he ensure that his staff are not dishonest? Internal controls. Does he not trust his staff? He probably does, else he won't hire them. Similarly, checking your diamond before you leave the shop is good practice.

How do you check? Thre are lots of ways. You can loupe it to find those familiar inclusions or laser inscriptions... or you can use an IdealScope to identify the image, etc. You have to check that the stone is not loose, and the diamond is not chipped anyway, so why don't you kill 2 birds with one stone?

But it is important that we are polite about it. Just check the diamond casually, while you chat with the friendly jeweller. Don't be rude. While I was checking the diamond during the last time, I was talking to the jeweller about her children. There's no need to make a big deal out of it.

And I do not think that by checking the diamond, I have integrity issues. I may have done things in the past that may question my integrity, but usually not on purpose and I try to put things right. But checking the diamond is just not one of them.

 

[starfire]

As Fedaykin said, diamond-swopping is mostly urban myth. It defies common sense for jewelry retailers to do such a thing. For some fly-by-night goldsmiths, this may be more possible, since they would not have invested in branding to the masses and have less to lose from doing a shoddy job or something worse.

But Kevin is correct that everyone should do their part to minimize problems. Consumers can discreetly loupe their diamond and check visually. Retailers have internal controls that ensure that diamonds sent out to be set is done correctly.

Also, if your diamond already has a laser inscribed number on the girdle, most retailers will not mind trying to set your diamond so that the number can be read with a loupe (if this is possible - depends on your jewelry design).

Kevin, I did not mean that people who are distrustful have integrity problems. However, it is usually due to their own sense of insecurity (possibly due to past experience, or not) that usually has nothing to do with the jewelry retailer. Unless, of course, the retailer in question has a bad reputation (in which case it makes no sense for you to walk in).

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Would you hand ten thousand dollars over to a stockbroker without checking out his record, and monitoring his decisions?

Do you pick up your car after having major work done on it without satisfying yourself that the work was actually done?

I'm sorry, but this "trust me because I've been in business a long time", or "trust me because I've got a fine jewelry store instead of a pawnshop" strikes me as asking a lot from a consumer who has no idea of your morals or ethics.

Not only that, but there's the staff that works for you. You can have a high integrity jeweler who has a thief goldsmith/diamond setter working for him that he hasn't yet discovered. This happened in Sarasota. It was two years before the goldsmith/setter was found out. During that time he managed to switch and steal an amazing amount of diamonds. He went to jail, did his time and is now out selling cars.

Knowing human nature, to trust blindly is naieve. The bad apples are a distinct minority, but they exist in every profession. Then you've got the good apples who find themselves in a bad (financial) situation and succumb to pressure and temptation. Then you've got the myriad of honest mistakes that occur.

There's been plenty of "fine" jewelers who have ripped off trusting consumers. There's was a high end jeweler here in Florida that sold blue topaz as fancy blue diamonds to consumers. They never bothered having the stones checked out because of his fine store and long standing in the community. He's in prison now.

Several times I have seen stones damaged while being set that the jeweler never bothered mentioning to the customer. Especially tanzanites and the corners of princess cut diamonds. Imagine the enormous pressure on a setter who chipped the corner on a high end 3 carat princess cut, and the chip is hidden under the V-prong, not obvious to casual loupe examination. Many setters are loathe to bring this to the attention of their employers. And many jewelers would be loathe to bring it to the attention of the consumer. They figure they'll just give it to the consumer without saying anything, and then when the consumer discovers the chip a year later and brings it back, the jeweler exclaims "Oh my gosh, you must have whacked this a good one!"

I just appraised a very expensive designer ring which passed through two quality control inspections by two different (selling) vendors before it got to me. The setting, which contained an important diamond, was riddled with porosity. The danger to the stone was obvious, yet both companies either didn't notice this obvious problem, or weren't knowledgeable enough to recognize it, or did but neglected to mention it to the consumer. I pointed it out and it was sent back to the designer, who made a new ring without argument or comment.

As an appraiser you develop a heightened consciousness to this sort of thing because the pieces often end up being brought to you by the consumer for analysis. Like a policeman, you are exposed to an inordinate amount of human errors, ommissions & deceptions.

It is a distinct minority (as in every profession), but errors, deception and honest mistakes definitely exist in the jewelry industry. And mistakes in the gem industry are usually expensive mistakes. It's no surprise that consumers want some kind of assurance and safeguards beyond the "you've got a problem if you don't trust me" attitude.

 

[Brian Knox]

Consumers,

Ask your jeweler/appraisor or pawn shop dealer to help you learn how to identify your diamond.

If they will not help you do this , find another jeweler/appraisor or pawn shop dealer.

I want any new customer of mine to be able to identify their diamond to their satisfaction without question.

This is just good business and solves these issues for me.

But as mentioned by others,I too, in my twenty years plus have turned away work from customers who in my opinion had an insurmountable amount of distrust.

My reputation is too important to gamble on someone that could be a kook and potentially jeopardize my reputation.


Back to the issue at large, I think if everyone in this industry took every opportunity to teach consumers how to identify their diamond(s), the whole industry could shed this largely undeserved black eye.

 

[kuhan]

If your diamond has the cert number laser inscribed, how much magnification to you need to be able to read it? Is this a practical way to identify your stone after you've left it with a Jeweler?

My Mum gets most of her jewelry made in India as it's very cheap and the workmanship and designs are superb - however the rule of thumb there is that you always sit with the setter when he's setting the stones as they are never trusted. This is probably borne by the fact that a 1ct diamond is probably worth 2 years salary for a setter in India - the temptation is just too great.

 

[starfire]

Kuhan, this would depend on how good your eyesight is. With steady hands and a 30x loupe, you should be able to make out your laser inscription.

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

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On 10/10/2004 11:54:17 PM kuhan wrote:

If your diamond has the cert number laser inscribed, how much magnification to you need to be able to read it? Is this a practical way to identify your stone after you've left it with a Jeweler?

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[starfire]

Richard,

I agree largely with what you are saying about taking personal resposibility.

However, some of your other points are perhaps less pertinent to consumers (as opposed to your job as an appraiser. A consumer would have far fewer opportunity to deal with different retailers and problems as you would.

Some of the problems that might otherwise have slim chance of being encountered by ordinary consumers, you will have more experience with.

I would recommend for readers to take note of your experience and learn from it, but realize that where this experience comes from and to digest this information appropriately.

While I understand where you are coming from, and think it is good of you to share your experience, the last thing we need is for more paranoia about jewellers (which is largely unfounded).

Stephen Tan
Charlotte Atelier
Singapore

 

[Richard Sherwood]

-----------
the last thing we need is for more paranoia about jewellers (which is largely unfounded).
-----------

That's why I emphasized several times that these things occur in a distinct minority of cases.

I don't want to create paranoia. I'm just attempting to present an explanantion for why a jeweler should be more understanding as to why paranoia exists.

Instead of saying the consumer has a problem, the jeweler should attempt to alleviate the consumer's concern by proper education. As Brian pointed out, we wouldn't have this problem if every jeweler took the trouble to show consumers how to identify their diamond.

Consumer's fears are usually easily alleviated with a little attention paid to those fears by the jeweler. It is unrealistic to ask a consumer to place blind trust in you, and then rude to act like he has a problem if he doesn't do so immediately. That trust has to be earned, over and over again, with each new customer.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/10/2004 11:18:09 PM Brian Knox wrote:





Consumers,

Back to the issue at large, I think if everyone in this industry took every opportunity to teach consumers how to identify their diamond(s), the whole industry could shed this largely undeserved black eye.


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A hearty AMEN to that.