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Learning, yearning and what to do?!

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
I've been reading here for a few hours today and I'm in love with this forum, you guys are great! My dilemma- I had a jeweler who has recently passed on. I was spoiled. I could look at any stone I wanted, ask questions and play with the pretties all day long in his workshop/home.

Now I'm lost.

I'm getting married in October and thought I knew exactly what I wanted for my E-ring stone. I'm thinking that I'm in the minority of most of those who are in the "colored" stones threads- because my heart was set on a black diamond.... until I found out that my favorite cut (asscher) and the black diamond were pretty much a contradiction of each other.

After researching other gemstones I became very intrigued with the history and color range of the spinel. (although local Ohio jewelers look at me like I have 3 heads when I ask about them.)

I've found a ring that I love. It's a David Wein design but I don't really love the light and airy colors that I'm seeing the majority of asscher cut spinels online (for me personally.) Although I must say- someone has a pale pink one that about knocked my socks off, cut by Jeff White (I think it was- still learning!)

Thanks for bearing with me on the back-story... and now a question- Is it is possible to find a dark violet asscher cut spinel around 8mm that would really show off this setting or should I just scrap the whole idea and figure out something else? It seems like anything deemed "darker", except red, in a spinel is bad :?:

Appreciate any insight or thoughts on this =)





Karis favorite.JPG
 

colorluvr

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
1,683
"It seems like anything deemed "darker", except red, in a spinel is bad"

Spinels are moody stones and the darker ones can lose their color in some lighting, but that doesn't mean they are "bad".. it just means you need to know that can happen, so if you are ok with that, you certainly should be able to get a deeper colored spinel in the color that you love. If you like this color, I would contact Jeff White and ask him if he has any spinel rough in the color that you like (or any of the other precision cutters whose work you admire).

I have this Jeff White spinel set in a simple solitaire setting that I sometimes wear as an eRing. They are times that it is the most gorgeous stone you have seen, other times.... it does go dark.... it's a personal decision as to what you want.

grape spinel.jpg

grape spinel2.jpg

grapespinel2.jpg
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
colorluvr|1304291524|2909471 said:
"It seems like anything deemed "darker", except red, in a spinel is bad"

Spinels are moody stones and the darker ones can lose their color in some lighting, but that doesn't mean they are "bad".. it just means you need to know that can happen, so if you are ok with that, you certainly should be able to get a deeper colored spinel in the color that you love. If you like this color, I would contact Jeff White and ask him if he has any spinel rough in the color that you like (or any of the other precision cutters whose work you admire).

I have this Jeff White spinel set in a simple solitaire setting that I sometimes wear as an eRing. They are times that it is the most gorgeous stone you have seen, other times.... it does go dark.... it's a personal decision as to what you want.
Thanks for that! So it seems that regardless, it's a find some rough and have it cut rather than shopping for an existing stone. More involved than I thought it would be but it now seems like it's turning into a treasure hunt/adventure which is also pretty fun. Are there any stellar precision cutters in Ohio that anyone knows of?

And lastly, has anyone seen a black spinel center stone of any cut that looks good? I see a lot of small round accents but that's about it.
 

colorluvr

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
1,683
"So it seems that regardless, it's a find some rough and have it cut rather than shopping for an existing stone."

From what I've seen, if it's a nice colored spinel in an asscher cut by a good precision cutter, the stone will sell shortly after it hits their website, so finding an exisiting one may be difficult. Well cut spinel asschers don't seem to stick around for sale very long.
 

faegrace

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
373
FallenRox ~

You might want to check out http://www.bespoke-gems.com. Doug has black spinel and if that is truly where your heart lies, I would suggest contacting him directly as he typically has loads of rough from which to choose. I have an antique round garnet from Doug and his cutting is perfection.

~ faegrace
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
1,699
Typically an asscher style cut looks better in lighter stones. It's a very deep cut and to get the effect, you need to look into the stone. A darker stone may get lost in the cut. Dark purple and violet spinels really need a bright cut or they will go very dark on you.
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
Thank you all very much for the advice/opinions, they are most appreciated. At least at this point I feel like I'm narrowed down to two possible colors. I'll keep reading and learning and you all make a newbie feel very comfortable, so if I have questions, I'll be back!

If there is a listing of precision cutters buried somewhere here, I hope to find that too. =)
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
12,337
So I have this cranberry spinel ring. I consider this pretty dark. It is a quite large (by my standards) oval, at about 11 x 9 (once again, I'm ashamed to admit I can't remember the carat weight), surrounded by diamonds. It is a lovely color, but its a native cut and dark. While its not like a garnet (many of which seem to black out in certain lighting conditions), and remains pretty consistent in various lighting conditions, it is still fairly dark. I plan on removing it from this setting and having it recut by one of the precision cutters for maximum brilliance and scintillation and finding a lighter colored 11 x 9 stone with which to replace it in the setting.

I hope these photos help you out. Good luck!

Cranberry Spinel - 1a.jpg

Cranberry Spinel - 4a.jpg

Cranberry Spinel - 2a.jpg

Cranberry Spinel - 3a.jpg
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
minousbijoux|1304310785|2909745 said:
So I have this cranberry spinel ring.
And what a beautiful color that is! Thank you so much for sharing. =)

I feel like a gem site stalker right now with all the emailing and looking and scrolling and reading, but it's fun! I happened upon a color that really REALLY like. I've only seen one though so that tells me it must not be very desirable overall? I've attached it here for thoughts.

Also have emailed Doug about options of cuts in the black, but the more I look at the setting, it just seems to contradict it. Or... maybe I've just looked at too many and I'm just "stoned" :shock: ha ha.

gemselect gray blue spinel.JPG
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
After combing through the topics here, I've discovered that what I'm really looking for is what many call ~titanium spinel~.... Last night, I found a thread that had a LOT of images in it from "FrekeChild" with many stones that are gorgeous! Today I can't find it. =(

If anyone has any advice on who I might contact to keep an eye out for this dream I'm chasing, please let me know.
I'm looking for an 8 - 10mm square - haven't seen any (sold or otherwise) in an asscher cut, so I'm supposing if I can't find any rough anywhere, I'll have to look at princess cut.

Thank you kindly!

(Doug has been a great help, by the way, so thank you faegrance and everyone else who has contributed here)
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
Thank you for that!

(And I just checked my email and he's written back, so maybe that's a good sign. Fingers crossed)

I've been thinking- after reading some of the re-cutting threads, how do you know what size
a gemstone has to be to be able to have it re-cut in another shape? Is there a rule of thumb for
weight and mm size?

Since I now know that asschers are hard to come by, and so is rough in the color that I want, I'm
looking at all options. Not even sure that is one, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks =)
 

MontageCreations

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
69
FallenRox said:
Thank you for that!

(And I just checked my email and he's written back, so maybe that's a good sign. Fingers crossed)

I've been thinking- after reading some of the re-cutting threads, how do you know what size
a gemstone has to be to be able to have it re-cut in another shape? Is there a rule of thumb for
weight and mm size?

Since I now know that asschers are hard to come by, and so is rough in the color that I want, I'm
looking at all options. Not even sure that is one, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks =)
Hi Fallen,

when looking to re-cut a stone, the cutter is the best judge of what will be the best recovery. It's difficult to tell you in a post what that will be as it is largely dependant on the starting cut, orientation of the stone, desired effects, gemstone optical character, and depth of your pockets.

For an Asscher, it's likely better to start with something similar in shape, like a square cushion, you'll get better recovery out of that than a round, marquise, oval, etc. (The following is an guestimated example) For instance if you start with a 12 mm round and a 12 mm cushion, the best you would get out of a round would be ~8 mm, whereas the cushion would likely get you a 10-11 mm stone. There are way to many variables to consider for these estimates to be exact, this is just to give you an idea.

The only way this makes economic sense is if you get a native, heirloom, or worn gemstone very cheap to serve as your starting point for the re-cut. Otherwise you'll pay a premium.

Hope this helps.
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
That makes perfect sense, Montage.
Thank you much for taking the time to explain :)
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
Thanks Talamasca! I'm looking for a silvery/titanium/steel/could have slight hint of purply color.
The ones I've found that I like the color of are usually labeled ~titanium~
Seems my challenge is that I want one that is larger than most rough is in with this color spectrum.
I'm not giving up though! (8mm asscher)

Here is another image of a color I really like... and thanks to everyone who gives me suggestions of
where to look, as I'm contacting everyone and learning a ton along the way. <3

silver purple spinel.JPG
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,250
FallenRox|1304619558|2913127 said:
Thanks Talamasca! I'm looking for a silvery/titanium/steel/could have slight hint of purply color.
The ones I've found that I like the color of are usually labeled ~titanium~
Seems my challenge is that I want one that is larger than most rough is in with this color spectrum.
I'm not giving up though! (8mm asscher)

Here is another image of a color I really like... and thanks to everyone who gives me suggestions of
where to look, as I'm contacting everyone and learning a ton along the way. <3
This color spinel is all over ebay for very inexpensive pricing. I bought a three carat stone like that for around $30. If I were you, I would look for a cushion that was very deep in cut, and send it to Jerry Newman, who is a superb precision facetor, and ask him to cut it in an asscher. His pricing for cutting is extremely reasonable. You'll save a ton of $$$ too.

Even before you buy a stone you're considering, send him the measurements, and ask him if he can do an asscher.

http://www.gemartservices.com/about.htm

I find Jeff White to be kind of expensive because he did win some awards, but having both his and Jerry's cutting in my hands, I don't see any discernable differences. You can see examples of his cutting on his site.
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
TL|1304631932|2913304 said:
This color spinel is all over ebay for very inexpensive pricing. I bought a three carat stone like that for around $30. If I were you, I would look for a cushion that was very deep in cut, and send it to Jerry Newman, who is a superb precision facetor, and ask him to cut it in an asscher. His pricing for cutting is extremely reasonable. You'll save a ton of $$$ too.
I will definitely look into this, and can't thank you enough for the help! =)
I'm actually an e-bay virgin, I've always been scared of it. Have bought plenty of things on Etsy
but never e-bay.

Anything special I should know aside from return policies and vendor ratings before I take the plunge and make an account?
 
T

talamasca

Guest
Oooo that's a really lovely colour. Will keep my eye out ;-)
 

innerkitten

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
Messages
5,623
I get what your talking about. You want a deep dark stone in silver or purple but not one thats opaque. Right? I think you should be able to find one like that in spinel. Ask the cutters what they have.
 

innerkitten

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
Messages
5,623
FallenRox|1304662459|2913740 said:
TL|1304631932|2913304 said:
This color spinel is all over ebay for very inexpensive pricing. I bought a three carat stone like that for around $30. If I were you, I would look for a cushion that was very deep in cut, and send it to Jerry Newman, who is a superb precision facetor, and ask him to cut it in an asscher. His pricing for cutting is extremely reasonable. You'll save a ton of $$$ too.
I will definitely look into this, and can't thank you enough for the help! =)
I'm actually an e-bay virgin, I've always been scared of it. Have bought plenty of things on Etsy
but never e-bay.

Anything special I should know aside from return policies and vendor ratings before I take the plunge and make an account?
I wouldn't get an Ebay stone for your e ring ( get the color you like in a really nice cut). But Ebay can be a fun place to play if you just want to get a few stones to learn about the color etc.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,250
FallenRox|1304662459|2913740 said:
TL|1304631932|2913304 said:
This color spinel is all over ebay for very inexpensive pricing. I bought a three carat stone like that for around $30. If I were you, I would look for a cushion that was very deep in cut, and send it to Jerry Newman, who is a superb precision facetor, and ask him to cut it in an asscher. His pricing for cutting is extremely reasonable. You'll save a ton of $$$ too.
I will definitely look into this, and can't thank you enough for the help! =)
I'm actually an e-bay virgin, I've always been scared of it. Have bought plenty of things on Etsy
but never e-bay.

Anything special I should know aside from return policies and vendor ratings before I take the plunge and make an account?
check site toolhaus.org for any hidden bad feedback.

Seriously though, if I were an ebay virgin, I think it should still be easy to get a dark grey cushion spinel.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
23,250
innerkitten|1304706622|2914135 said:
FallenRox|1304662459|2913740 said:
TL|1304631932|2913304 said:
This color spinel is all over ebay for very inexpensive pricing. I bought a three carat stone like that for around $30. If I were you, I would look for a cushion that was very deep in cut, and send it to Jerry Newman, who is a superb precision facetor, and ask him to cut it in an asscher. His pricing for cutting is extremely reasonable. You'll save a ton of $$$ too.
I will definitely look into this, and can't thank you enough for the help! =)
I'm actually an e-bay virgin, I've always been scared of it. Have bought plenty of things on Etsy
but never e-bay.

Anything special I should know aside from return policies and vendor ratings before I take the plunge and make an account?
I wouldn't get an Ebay stone for your e ring ( get the color you like in a really nice cut). But Ebay can be a fun place to play if you just want to get a few stones to learn about the color etc.
Innerkitten,
I respectfully disagree. There are some very fine ebay stones out there. However, the ones she's looking for is a very inexpensive color, no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't want to pay a ton of money just because some lapidary sourced it him/herself. There are some really fine and trustworthy ebay vendors as well. I know people that have bought e-ring diamonds and other stones from ebay vendors. Not all of ebay is junk. I've been buying gems and other collectibles on ebay since ebay was ebay. It's a great place if you know how to search out trustworthy vendors. I do recommend that she notes the vendors she's looking at here before she takes the plunge on a certain stone. There are many of us that have good experience with several ebay vendors.

Some really good sellers of very inexpensive spinels in greyish color are srilankamall and colorful_gems (same vendor). They have some decent cuts too. I obtained some grey spinels from them that you would love. Odysseygem/Gembuioneline (same store) had a huge 6 carat cushion grey spinel for a few hundred or so. I have to search it out.

ETA: I buy from this dealer all the time, and so do a lot of people out here. This is a huge spinel and a good candidate for recutting due to the high crown and it's depth.

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-90ct-Museum-S...797?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51988c0f6d

It's hard to find such huge sizes in spinels. The listing ended, but I don't think anyone bought it. You can email the seller to find out if you're interested.
 

FallenRox

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
248
innerkitten|1304706472|2914133 said:
I get what your talking about. You want a deep dark stone in silver or purple but not one thats opaque. Right? I think you should be able to find one like that in spinel. Ask the cutters what they have.
Hmmm. No, not deep dark- although when I first began this quest, that what I thought I wanted- as I've looked though, it's more of a medium tone that can go lighter and brighter in certain light. And I've checked about 10 cutters and have struck out so far. Still on some lists for notification if they come across some though :)
 
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