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Leakage question

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
We recently bought a diamond and had it set. I really love my engagement ring and my diamond. However, since I started reading on pricescope, I have become fascinated with diamonds, and have been staring at my diamond with and without a loupe. I have noticed that when I look at it though the loupe face up, I can often see whatever is behind the diamond right at the center of the diamond. For example, if I am holding the diamond, I can see my finger. This happens just at the center of the diamond, not anywhere else. At first I thought maybe it was reflecting my face, but I tried holding it with a pink cloth with no pink anywhere else in the room, and sure enough, I could see pink at the center. Now that I have noticed it, I can see it even without a loupe.

The diamond is an RB with no culet. My question is, is this normal? Does this mean that it has some leakage under the table? I am a little suspicious since the idealscope image of the diamond showed some leakage, but the vendor said that the image had been taken at an angle and that really there was no leakage. I wonder if they were being honest.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,946
It sounds like windowing, which happens when diamonds are cut too shallow.
Instead of light bouncing off a facet and changing direction it passes right through the diamond.

Do you know your diamonds depth percentage?
If not do you know the diameter and the depth in mm?
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
Diamond stats:

Cut: GIA Ex/Ex/Ex
Depth: 62.5%
Table: 56.0%
Measurements: 6.15*6.18*3.86
Crown angle: 35.5
Pavilion angle: 40.6

My understanding was that it is cut a little deep. I think it scored about 1.4 on HCA.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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28,946
Hmm.
I'm stumped.

Does this happen under the entire table?

BTW one of the tests of a real diamond is that you can set it table down on newspaper and you cannot read the print.
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
No, just in the very center, where there are no arrows. I don't know how else to explain it. It you imagine the image of the diamond, it is right where there are no arrows in the center of the diamond, the totally white area in the image. Even there, I think it is not the entire circle, about 3/4 of the circle.
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
Well, since it is set now, I can't quite do the newspaper test. But I can definitely see color though it. And I was suspicious since I read on PS that people set surprise stones under the culet and never see the color.

I should also mention, the culet and very bottom of the pavilion is covered by the setting, but most of the pavilion is visible, and I imagine that is where the color is coming though.
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
It occured to me that it might help to post the idealscope image that we got from the vendor.

F-VS2.jpg
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Idealscope looks fine.

Did you clean your stone and setting often? Oil, etc.. that sticks to the diamond surface will reduce the refractive index of diamond, resulting in leakage.
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
Actually, that is how I noticed it. I was staring at it and noticed some fluff on the diamond. So I cleaned it and then saw the leakage (if it is leakage). I have been cleaning it pretty much every day, since I am so obsessed with it.

The diamond is very pretty and it sparkles a lot, so I am not dissatisfied with it. But I am pretty curious about this weird phenomenon. Also, I did a bunch of research before buying it, so I would be a little disappointed if it has leakage. It is still within the return period, but my fiance would kill me if I returned it. He thinks I should move on from my obsession with diamonds :)
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
hmm...

You will have to take some images. Really out of ideas about what you are seeing.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,946
Is there any chance you are seeing the color of other things in the environment that happen to be similar to the color of what is underneath the diamond?
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
I thought the same about environmental reflection. So I held it with a small pink cloth with no pink anywhere else in the environment, and still saw pink through it. So I'm pretty sure that I am seeing color through it. I just looked again, and while the color is most pronounced right in the middle of the diamond, you can see hints of pink in the rest of the table as well. The only other possibility is that my loupe is reflecting some of the pink back onto the diamond. Do you think that is likely? It seems far fetched to me.

Hmm, I'm going to have to figure out how to take a picture through a loupe. I only have a P&S camera. Does any one know how to take magnified diamond pictures with a loupe and P&S?

I am considering buying a second hand DSLR. What kind of lens do you need with an SLR to take good magnified diamond pictures? Perhaps this can be the impetus to finally take photography seriously.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,946
KA|1315607602|3013975 said:
I thought the same about environmental reflection. So I held it with a small pink cloth with no pink anywhere else in the environment, and still saw pink through it. So I'm pretty sure that I am seeing color through it. I just looked again, and while the color is most pronounced right in the middle of the diamond, you can see hints of pink in the rest of the table as well. The only other possibility is that my loupe is reflecting some of the pink back onto the diamond. Do you think that is likely? It seems far fetched to me.

Hmm, I'm going to have to figure out how to take a picture through a loupe. I only have a P&S camera. Does any one know how to take magnified diamond pictures with a loupe and P&S?

I am considering buying a second hand DSLR. What kind of lens do you need with an SLR to take good magnified diamond pictures? Perhaps this can be the impetus to finally take photography seriously.

Oh don't get me started on photography.
I'm a real photo nut and I'll make you bankrupt. :bigsmile:

Are you sure you are not wearing a pink blouse or there is something large and pink in the environment?
Then of course there is always the possibility what you are seeing is the reflection of the skin on your face if it is similar to that pink.

Yes, I believe the loupe could reflect color of what's behind the diamond since it has to be so close to the diamond when in focus.
Try your test without the loupe, or . . . this may try your patience but cut a tiny hole in a piece of white paper or cardboard positioned between the loupe and the diamond.
You'll have to experiment with the hole size, starting with the hole too small.
The goal is for the loupe to not "see" anything outside the diamond.
 

KA

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 14, 2011
Messages
127
No, unfortunately, none of the PS appraisers are in St Louis. I got it appraised from Therese Kienstra, but she did a basic insurance appraisal, and frankly, she didn't seem too competent to really assess the stone to me. I tried to ask her about the depth and trade-offs between various parameters, and she said, "Oh, your stone is GIA excellent. They know what they are doing." Maybe I am being too harsh on her, but I tried to push her for some info, and she started opening various books and showing me pictures. I wasn't too impressed.

Do you know of others in st louis who would be better? I also want to get some other jewelry appraised (indian jewelry with lots of small diamonds and beautiful designs) and she doesn't seem like she would be able to handle that for me. So I would like other appraiser recommendations anyway.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
KA|1315614011|3014067 said:
No, unfortunately, none of the PS appraisers are in St Louis. I got it appraised from Therese Kienstra, but she did a basic insurance appraisal, and frankly, she didn't seem too competent to really assess the stone to me. I tried to ask her about the depth and trade-offs between various parameters, and she said, "Oh, your stone is GIA excellent. They know what they are doing." Maybe I am being too harsh on her, but I tried to push her for some info, and she started opening various books and showing me pictures. I wasn't too impressed.

Do you know of others in st louis who would be better? I also want to get some other jewelry appraised (indian jewelry with lots of small diamonds and beautiful designs) and she doesn't seem like she would be able to handle that for me. So I would like other appraiser recommendations anyway.
you can ship to appraisers if you want to use someone who is not local to you. I shipped my ring and earrings to Neil Beaty who participates frequently on PS. He will definitely give you the type of assessment you are looking for.
 
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