Lazer inscribed diamonds

[Daniel B]

Hey!

If i was going to buy a diamond from either whiteflash or GOG, would/could they inscribe it for me.
You have to forgive me, I am a very suspicious

person and I know MOST jewelers are etchical in their dealings with other peoples stones when setting it, but. . . you never know.
What if they pull a switcheroo and i have no way of knowing but to look for the inscription. i just want piece of mind, too-- does anyone know if those two companies would do that for me?

 

[IrvineCA]

I am also a very suspicious person and probably went through what your going through. I had quite a bit of anxiety buying a diamond online. After I purchased my ACA from WF, I took the diamond to a jeweler to have it checked out. Because the ACA was already set, I really couldn''t see the Hearts, only the Arrows. It was still hard to focus on the Arrows from the Idealscope because of the setting.

The laser inscription is very small but I was able to use a magnifying glass (microscope) from the jeweler to see it. The jeweler actually read the inscription to me before he knew what was on it. He confirmed the AGS number and the WF brand "A cut above" The 10x loop was not able to pick up the inscription.

There were some minor mishaps (did''nt receive Idealscope with diamond) which they later sent, they extended the 10 free look. But otherwise I was (and my fiance) was very happy with the diamond. I would buy from the again, and actually looking for smaller diamonds for some earings.

Hope this helps you and a reduce some of your anxiety.

IrvineCA

 

[Mara]

I thought that inscriptions were something that could only be done at a lab? Maybe not but that is always what I assumed.

Anyway if you buy an ACA it will be inscribed with ACA on the girdle and some AGS stones have inscribed girdles...I'd ask about it when you are shopping but not sure if it is something that can happen after the fact.

Oh yeah and the inscription can only be read with 40x mag..not a regular 10x loupe.

I like using my inclusion to ID my stone, that and the fact that it's so well cut that I would know if someone was passing off some crap stone as mine...hard to miss the blazing amazing arrows and my little tiny black inclusion off the table. Then again I also don't take it and leave it anywhere ever for more than a few minutes. There's no need.

 

[Daniel B]

Then again I also don''t take it and leave it anywhere ever for more than a few minutes. There''s no need.

Yea i agree with that. I just want to be assured when i drop off the loose diamond for it to get set at a local B&M store that they wont try anything sneaky-- Its probably the best diamond they''ve seen compared to the junk they put out in the showcase-- so theres reason to be suspicious.

 

[IrvineCA]

I think WF has a inscription on their ACA and Expert Selections only. If you''re worried about the switcheroo, have WF do the setting.

IrvineCA

 

[Regular Guy]

Not sure about the answer to your original question, but do read about inscriptions here by doing a search on the term. I can read mine with a 20X loupe that I have, a good jeweler can read mine with a 10X, and guys like Dave Atlas and others with the equipment, other than agents like GIA can affix them. I also like the promise of additional security they offer.

 

[DPG]

Daniel B -

WF was able to inscribe the diamond I recently purchased. However, the laser inscription will not be a part of the GIA report if one has been issued already. Also, by asking them to inscribe the diamond for me, I had to forgo the 10 day return policy, being that the diamond was altered from its original state. Price of Inscription - $50. Just like the rest of us amatuers, I can only make out the inscribed GIA # with a 30x Loupe.

 

[strmrdr]

A lot of their diamonds are allready inscribled as noted.
Either could have them done so if they wernt allready or even if they were.
Myself I think it would be kewl to do a custom inscription.
Sorta like writing it in stone :}

 

[JohnQuixote]

Inscriptions are a great way to identify your diamond. At the same time, anything done post-lab is not noted on the grading document, making the diamond and the document immediately out of date with each other.

For our part...

1. All "A Cut Above" diamonds come with the AGS report number and ACA logo already inscribed.

2. All GIA Dossier diamonds come with the GIA report number already inscribed (the dossiers don't include an inclusion plot on the report so this is lab-done for identification assurance).

We can do custom inscriptions, but once inscribed the grading report is out of date. Therefore:

3. If we inscribe the grading report number on a diamond that did not already have it the 10 day return is waived since it will then be out of date (not noted on the report). However, the 1 year buy-back and lifetime trade-up still stand, since any diamond we accept back in a trade-up is sent back to the lab for regrading anyway.

4. If we do a personalized inscription ("To Moonchild, love StarWarrior" etc) the diamond cannot be returned and buy-back, trade-up, etc. is also waived. It now belongs to Moonchild and StarWarrior.

Remember - "An inscription is forever."

 

[smappraisal]

Hi,
In the situation that your talking about, where you can check the laser inscription after having left it at a store, it probably would be effective and give you peace of mind. I''ve not had any dealings with the 2 companies you mentioned, but they should be able to offer such a stone. In the long run as a security measure, in the event your diamond is lost or stolen, I don''t see a laser inscribed stone as having any clout. Dishonest people can simply have the inscriptions polished out and even go to the extent of rounding out the girdle, reworking the crown of the stone, having it re-certed and reselling it. Generally, I think laser inscription is a nice retail marketing tool that "keeps the honest people honest." Steve

 

[Mara]

So I guess that means inscribing ''Batman Loves Greg'' on my next diamond is out of the question if I ever plan to upgrade again.

DARN!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 11:12:39 AM
Author: 19th Hole
Hi,
In the situation that your talking about, where you can check the laser inscription after having left it at a store, it probably would be effective and give you peace of mind. I''ve not had any dealings with the 2 companies you mentioned, but they should be able to offer such a stone. In the long run as a security measure, in the event your diamond is lost or stolen, I don''t see a laser inscribed stone as having any clout. Dishonest people can simply have the inscriptions polished out and even go to the extent of rounding out the girdle, reworking the crown of the stone, having it re-certed and reselling it. Generally, I think laser inscription is a nice retail marketing tool that ''keeps the honest people honest.'' Steve

Right. Inscriptions are intended for identification. They are particularly useful when accompanying a GIA dossier report (mentioned above), but are not for theft or loss protection. A good insurance policy is always highly recommended.

Another note: Inscriptions become more difficult to find over time. They are black at first, but fade and eventually blend with the diamond. Experts who know what they are looking for should always be able to find the inscription, but it can be tricky, especially with a frosted girdle.

Bob told me that we once sent out a diamond with a frosted girdle that had been inscribed some years prior. Neither the appraiser or a local jeweler could find the inscription. It was returned, we found it, circled it and sent it back. Once located for them it was easy to find.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 11:26:03 AM
Author: Mara
So I guess that means inscribing ''Batman Loves Greg'' on my next diamond is out of the question if I ever plan to upgrade again.

DARN!

LOL. I am pretty sure requests for that pairing don''t come flooding in.

 

[recran]

I think Jared''s (I know, I know, yuck yuck yuck) has all the diamonds they sell inscribed.

 

[DiamondOptics]

Hi Daniel,


To give yourself further peace of mind, i believe you may have the
option of having the stones sent to an independant
appraiser, in some cases even prior to purchase.

Kirk

 

[kenny]

I can't see how laser inscriptions will prevent swapping.
An inscription can not only be polished off, but anyone with the equipment can inscribe anything they want.

If someone is dishonest enough to swap your stone (your original concern) he is dishonest enough to copy the same inscription onto the stone they are substituting.

Yes inscriptions do give you a warm fuzzy feeling but I strongly recommend knowing your inclusions. (Another good reason to avoid those obnoxious flawless diamonds.)

Buy a loupe.
Ask a jeweler to teach you how to use it to find your inclusions in your stone.

 

[RockDoc]

RE; Inscriptions only being done by a lab.


Initially the laser inscription process was invented by Lazare Kaplan. At that time only their stone had the inscriptions. Then GIA licensed the product from LK, and were able to inscribe their graphic GIA trademark.


Years later other manufacturers made the isnscription machines, which are available to anyone who has the $$$ to buy one.

Initially I thought the only good protection with laser inscription was the ability to inscribe the trademark as well as the number. Since, I have learned that even the machines being sold to "anyone" are capable of dulpicating the graphic of a trademark by using a jpeg. file.

The machines are expensive, and not everyone has that kind of $$$ available to do this. But as with most technology items today the price will probably decrease over time, so there may be more machines out there. Currently they start at about $ 50K and go up to about $ 250K.

Another method of ID is the Gemprint system, which doesn''t mark the stone, but rather makes a fingerprint based on the diamonds refractive pattern ( which is unique for every diamond). There is more info about it on www.gemprint.com.
Another advantage of Gemprint is that the stone is registered in an internation database, which those who have the gemprint system do cooperate with law enforcement to assist in making recoveries.

Each method has it''s plusses and minuses. But having both done is really a reliable way of ID.

Hope this helps

Rockdoc

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 10/18/2005 10:51:01 AM
Author: JohnQuixote


4. If we do a personalized inscription (''To Moonchild, love StarWarrior'' etc) the diamond cannot be returned and buy-back, trade-up, etc. is also waived. It now belongs to Moonchild and StarWarrior.


Remember - ''An inscription is forever.''

John,
Thanks for the info. I have a question, though. It''s my understanding that removing an inscription is actually quite easy (for a professional w/ the right equipment) and "harmless" to the diamond. Is this correct? Because, if so, why does a special inscription exclude any future trade-up? (Waiving "return" rights I do understand.) Just wondering!
Thanks,
Lynn

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 5:49:35 PM
Author: Lynn B


John,
Thanks for the info. I have a question, though. It''s my understanding that removing an inscription is actually quite easy (for a professional w/ the right equipment) and ''harmless'' to the diamond. Is this correct? Because, if so, why does a special inscription exclude any future trade-up? (Waiving ''return'' rights I do understand.) Just wondering!
Thanks,
Lynn

Lynn,

We prefer our diamonds not undergo any treatment such as re-application to a polishing wheel by any outside jeweler. Brian moved all Whiteflash cutting to Antwerp years ago, so the diamond would either need to go there or be granted to a brillianteer we associate with for such a removal. Depending on the circumstances, terms might be reached, but each case would be considered separately. Why? Did you go and have ''Batman'' put on yours?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 4:29:57 PM
Author: RockDoc

Another method of ID is the Gemprint system, which doesn''t mark the stone, but rather makes a fingerprint based on the diamonds refractive pattern ( which is unique for every diamond). There is more info about it on www.gemprint.com.

Bill - Did you see the "Law and Order" episode that featured Gemprint?

 

[RockDoc]

Hi John

No, I missed that. Wonder why Gemprint didn't let their group of centers know about it.

Was it good? What did they show about it?

Rockdoc

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 7:25:21 PM
Author: RockDoc
Hi John

No, I messed that. Wonder why Gemprint didn't let their group of centers know about it.

Was it good? What did they show about it?

Rockdoc

The show involved a diamond stolen by a con artist from one girl (who was killed in the story) and given as a gift to another victim. The parents of the first victim had a Gemprint of the diamond, a family heirloom, and in the courtroom scene a Gemprint official took the stand and verified it, tying the two victims - and the crimes - together. It was a nice commercial for Gemprint services.

I found some more info for you here, Bill. The episode originally aired in 2001.

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 10/18/2005 1:27:56 PM
Author: kenny
I can''t see how laser inscriptions will prevent swapping.
An inscription can not only be polished off, but anyone with the equipment can inscribe anything they want.

If someone is dishonest enough to swap your stone (your original concern) he is dishonest enough to copy the same inscription onto the stone they are substituting.

Yes inscriptions do give you a warm fuzzy feeling but I strongly recommend knowing your inclusions. (Another good reason to avoid those obnoxious flawless diamonds.)

Buy a loupe.
Ask a jeweler to teach you how to use it to find your inclusions in your stone.

Hi Kenny

I don''t believe buying a loupe will make things that much easier. Suppose you have an SI stone that is otherwise pretty clean and the jeweler hid the inclusion under a prong?

Or if you have a VVS where the inclusions are really difficult to find with a loupe.

OR you have a D - IF that is switched for an F- IF or VVS.... there the person is going to not beable to see the differences.
As far as teaching how to use a loupe. Most jewelers to be honest, don''t know how. I have met so few diamond pros that are really good with a loupe.

This is even more amplified if the person has an inexpensive loupe. If someone is stuck having to use a loupe, at least get one that has diark field illumination.

Additionally, since most folks who are "paranoid" or overly concerned with stone switching by someone, accusing them wrongly could backfire on them as well.

I''ve had experience with those situations as well. Fortunately in the worst instance, where the cops were gioing to go in and make arrests, I was able to PROVE that the jeweler did not switch the stone.

In another instance, Gemprint saved the day to prove misrepresentation. In fact, Dave Atlas did the confirming gemprint imaging. This lady''s story was even on the news in Philly.

Rockdoc

 

[RockDoc]

Date: 10/18/2005 7:35:09 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/18/2005 7:25:21 PM
Author: RockDoc
Hi John

No, I messed that. Wonder why Gemprint didn''t let their group of centers know about it.

Was it good? What did they show about it?

Rockdoc

The show involved a diamond stolen by a con artist from one girl (who was killed in the story) and given as a gift to another victim. The parents of the first victim had a Gemprint of the diamond, a family heirloom, and in the courtroom scene a Gemprint official took the stand and verified it, tying the two victims - and the crimes - together. It was a nice commercial for Gemprint services.

I found some more info for you here, Bill. The episode originally aired in 2001.

Hey John

I''ll have to see if it is on DVD - and get that episode.

Actually I can''t understand why any jeweler taking in repairs for items owned by others, doesn''t have the Gemprint system. It can certainly save their "butt" from accusations of swtiching.

Another method of identifying is Image 6 on the B Scope report. While the average B Scope person really can''t match the image for court / trial purposes, Gemex says they can match stones with that. That hasn''t been court tested yet in trial, but a stone that''s had laser inscription, Gemprint, and Gemex, would certainly have all the bases covered.

Gemex and Gemprint do have a significant advantage in theft cases. That is, no evidence of any marking on the stone. If the laser inscription is seen on a stolen transaction, the stone is likely to be recut, where if no evidence of the ID is present, it would proabably be left alone, and thus identifiable.

Inscription is fairly recognizable, that is the plus side of inscription. But ID isn''t a guarantee if an identical inscription is inscribed on a different diamond.

Gemprint and Gemex would have to be re-imaged. That is the downside, but if the stone does or doesn''t match - the accuracy is a ''light years'' more reliable.

Not only is the Gemprint protection for the owner, it protects anyone who takes in the item as well.

Rockdoc

 

[Lynn B]

Lynn,

... Why? Did you go and have 'Batman' put on yours?

LOL! No, silly, that's MARA! The nick-name on MY diamond will have to remain a secret, since this is a wholesome family-oriented forum...

(TOTALLY KIDDING!!!!!!)

Lynn

PS BTW, thanks for the info, and I'm glad to know that WF would possibly consider it on a case-by-case basis.

 

[portoar]

hi, this ties in with a question I was pondering earlier today. I was on the Excel Diamond website and they say all their SuperbCert diamonds are "Gemprinted."

Here''s the Gemprint link: http://www.exceldiamonds.com/gemprint-service.php

They are saying this sort of like a "DNA identification" of your diamond and is admissable in court as incontrovertable proof of diamond ownership.

So, does this Gemprint really work, and have many stones actually been recovered using it?

Kim

Date: 10/18/2005 1:49:46 AM
Author:Daniel B
Hey!

If i was going to buy a diamond from either whiteflash or GOG, would/could they inscribe it for me.
You have to forgive me, I am a very suspicious

person and I know MOST jewelers are etchical in their dealings with other peoples stones when setting it, but. . . you never know.
What if they pull a switcheroo and i have no way of knowing but to look for the inscription. i just want piece of mind, too-- does anyone know if those two companies would do that for me?

 

[Daniel B]

Wow, it never occured to me that the best anti-theft measures are to look for the flaws (ironically enough). I know its hard to say, but how many dishonest jewelers do you out there that would pull a stunt like that???

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/18/2005 11:07:51 PM
Author: Daniel B
Wow, it never occured to me that the best anti-theft measures are to look for the flaws (ironically enough). I know its hard to say, but how many dishonest jewelers do you out there that would pull a stunt like that???

Not very many. Especially in places with any kind of reputation for good service. Such a stunt would ruin them.

There are two discussions occuring in this thread. One has to do with 'swapping' during cleaning or other attention by a jeweler (which I would classify as very rare as per above). When giving up your diamond for service it's handy to have an inscription - or known inclusions - as a way to quickly verify your diamond, primarily for your own peace of mind. By the way, the jewelers I know don't mind you using their microscope to verify this - it makes them feel secure as well.

The other discussion relates to identification in case of theft or loss. In most cases of theft, or loss, recovery is very rare. Though Gemprint may be a nice 'extra' there is no substitute for good insurance in such a catastrophic situation.

 

[Kaleigh]

Actually it''s very rare. Most jewelers have their reputation to stand on and would not risk all the years they have put into building their business and reputation. Switching a stone is sooooo not worth it to them. For them if they do that, they loose everything. Yes there are horror stories out there but I believe that they are few and far between.

 

[RockDoc]

hi, this ties in with a question I was pondering earlier today. I was on the Excel Diamond website and they say all their SuperbCert diamonds are "Gemprinted."

Here''s the Gemprint link: http://www.exceldiamonds.com/gemprint-service.php

They are saying this sort of like a "DNA identification" of your diamond and is admissable in court as incontrovertable proof of diamond ownership.

So, does this Gemprint really work, and have many stones actually been recovered using it?

Kim
______________________________

I can find out how many stones have been done, but think there about 1 million stones in their database which includes the Hope Diamond.

The amount of recoveries is small, because even though there are around 1 million stones in the database, that is a very small percentage. There are enough insurance companies that think it is useful enough to discount their premiums for stones that are gemprint registered. There''s a listing on their site of which insurance companies discount their premiums for having it Gemprint registered.

New programs bringing in more information to the law enforcement agecies is being worked on. It''s a bit of a big job as there are so many different law enforcement agencies out there.

Rockdoc