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lab grown/mined diamonds in the open market

Roselina

Brilliant_Rock
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Feb 1, 2020
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1,098
So I have been wondering this forever. I do not own any lab grown diamonds and am unexperienced. But as far as I know, they are (at least in "physical" terms) just the same as minded diamonds. Only difference - they were created by men in a laboratory and in a much shorter time. Now. Once someone buys a lab grown diamond it enters the open market. How can such a stone be verified as lab grown further on, if not declared by the vendor? Still many stones are sold without certificate which would make it easy to just sell it as diamond (for a higher price) and not specifically as lab grown diamond. Or?
 

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168
I think places like GIA don‘t certify synthetic diamonds so just get a GIA one. I think (happy to be corrected) IGI issues man-made certificates but the certificate and the inscription on the diamond clearly state that it’s a lab one. I also thought that an expert can tell a difference. There are also 2 methods of making lab diamonds and the cheaper, more common one does produce stones that aren’t quite right.

I suppose it would be possible for a dishonest vendor to sell a lab one without a certificate or the origin. Just like a synthetic ruby or sapphire etc.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,217
I think places like GIA don‘t certify synthetic diamonds so just get a GIA one. ...

GIA does not "certify" anything; nor do they issue "certs" or certifications.
What GIA does is grade gems and issue grading reports, subject to all the fine print disclosers on the reverse.

GIA issues reports for both diamonds that were mined from the earth and diamonds grown in a lab.
See below example.
It may seem like I'm splitting hairs, but certifying something involves very different and important legal baggage.


Screen Shot 2021-01-14 at 2.33.12 AM.png
 
Last edited:

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168
@kenny, thank you for that. Good to know GIA deal with lab diamonds now.

I also understand that GIA issues ‘reports’, AGS ‘documents’, HRD ‘certificates’. Just using common English here rather than what would be language appropriate in the US legal sense.
 

Roselina

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
1,098
Interesting. But at the end a buyer would basically always need to have the stone tested before buying. Otherwise there is little way to tell. And the amount of lab growns is on the rise.
 

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168
Personally, I’d only buy a diamond with a GIA report and if it’s something smaller, then stick to reputable sellers.
The same for other stones. Man-made rubies or sapphires are also made out of the same elements/compound as the mined ones. Really good ones are very close to high quality mined versions. Diamonds are probably even more similar to the real deal so very easy to get duped if you’re not a gemologist.
 

dk168

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
12,491
IMHO, it is fine for buying a stone from a certain size upwards that has been verified as lab/MMD by a reputable laboratory.

However, there is a risk that manufacturers may use smaller size and slightly cheaper lab/MMDs and pass them on as mined equivalent in finished jewellery pieces. The chances of this happening will no doubt increase as the price for raw materials drop even further in future.

Hence I would stick with vendors and benches that I know and trust for a peace of mind.

DK :))
 

acaw2015

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
910
I own two MMDs and there is no visible difference at all, unsurprisingly so. I certainly think that mined diamonds will in the future need some sort of passport, stating their mined origin and tracking from distributer to seller and buyer. That would also make the market for them a lot more transparent.
I do think however that such passports would be hard to create in reality due to the generic look of high color/less included stones.
There is an obvious difference between lab diamonds and lab rubys and sapphires because those gems have certain tones in color/differences between stones that diamonds lack.
:wavey:
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,691
The precise use of words has always been of interest to me. In gemology, a synthetic gemstone is one with the same chemical and optical properties as the natural, mined gemstone of the same species and variety. With diamonds, the powers that be have determined that since diamond is an element, carbon, that regardless of how it comes into being, that lab grown ones are not "synthetic" diamonds. This is in opposition to what has been common and well understood terminology for 50 plus years, but really, it is an argument that isn't worth a lot of time getting upset about.

Mined diamonds have a degree of rarity that lab grown will never have. As we see more lab diamonds enter the market at ever lower cost prices, the low end qualities of mined diamonds will struggle to compete, since lab diamonds will look far better in terms of color, clarity and transparency. Some mining operations will struggle to stay open if they have a rather low end quality level of rough production. This may drive prices higher for mined diamonds as fewer mines will remain open and profitable.

The market will find room for manmade diamonds at fairly low end prices and it will also support increasingly rare mined diamonds at higher prices than the current level. Neither product will wipe out interest in the other, but the balance of the current market may shift over time in ways we have not been able to plan on. Don't expect much second hand interest in the sale of lab grown diamonds. The value fresh from the lab will be pretty reasonable. Maybe there will be some small residual value and maybe next to none. The market is free to act and surely, there will be a market of some sort where lab grown diamonds will find new homes. I don't think anyone will toss them in the trash, but I can't begin to predict how much they may be worth "'used".

The current production techniques give us very consistent production of lab grown diamonds. The near colorless ones are all type IIA and only about 1% of mined diamonds are this type. It has to do with complex chemistry of the nitrogen in the crystal lattice of the diamonds. What is important to understand, is that skilled gemologists with proper equipment and training can readily separate mined from lab diamonds. There is little reason to think this will change. There are several consistent clues to make these determinations and this won't change overnight since there is no good reason to make major investments in equipment to make such changes just to make lab diamonds more difficult to detect. Detection will remain an expert skill, but detection won't ever be a big problem for the trade.

There are relatively small and affordable machines to detect tiny to large lab grown diamonds from mined diamonds. More devices are coming online and the work is becoming easier, not more difficult.

Lab grown diamonds are visually the same as mined diamonds, but they are not identical to the point where there is any confusion among laboratory trained and skilled experts. Simple screening tools are growing in number which extend separation of lab versus mined down to even the nearly untrained counter person.

Folks who love diamonds will make up their own minds about how to spend their money. Do they want some element of investment or are they only looking for "looks"? To each their own. Does a buyer want some degree of rarity, or is a visual copy a better fit for their needs, budget and personality? Everyone will decide what is best for them. However, understanding there are a series of "differences" between lab and mined diamonds is an important bit of knowledge. They look the same and act the same in the visual world, but they are not the same under close scientific scrutiny or as a long term quasi-financial investment.
 

Roselina

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
1,098
The precise use of words has always been of interest to me. In gemology, a synthetic gemstone is one with the same chemical and optical properties as the natural, mined gemstone of the same species and variety. With diamonds, the powers that be have determined that since diamond is an element, carbon, that regardless of how it comes into being, that lab grown ones are not "synthetic" diamonds. This is in opposition to what has been common and well understood terminology for 50 plus years, but really, it is an argument that isn't worth a lot of time getting upset about.

Mined diamonds have a degree of rarity that lab grown will never have. As we see more lab diamonds enter the market at ever lower cost prices, the low end qualities of mined diamonds will struggle to compete, since lab diamonds will look far better in terms of color, clarity and transparency. Some mining operations will struggle to stay open if they have a rather low end quality level of rough production. This may drive prices higher for mined diamonds as fewer mines will remain open and profitable.

The market will find room for manmade diamonds at fairly low end prices and it will also support increasingly rare mined diamonds at higher prices than the current level. Neither product will wipe out interest in the other, but the balance of the current market may shift over time in ways we have not been able to plan on. Don't expect much second hand interest in the sale of lab grown diamonds. The value fresh from the lab will be pretty reasonable. Maybe there will be some small residual value and maybe next to none. The market is free to act and surely, there will be a market of some sort where lab grown diamonds will find new homes. I don't think anyone will toss them in the trash, but I can't begin to predict how much they may be worth "'used".

The current production techniques give us very consistent production of lab grown diamonds. The near colorless ones are all type IIA and only about 1% of mined diamonds are this type. It has to do with complex chemistry of the nitrogen in the crystal lattice of the diamonds. What is important to understand, is that skilled gemologists with proper equipment and training can readily separate mined from lab diamonds. There is little reason to think this will change. There are several consistent clues to make these determinations and this won't change overnight since there is no good reason to make major investments in equipment to make such changes just to make lab diamonds more difficult to detect. Detection will remain an expert skill, but detection won't ever be a big problem for the trade.

There are relatively small and affordable machines to detect tiny to large lab grown diamonds from mined diamonds. More devices are coming online and the work is becoming easier, not more difficult.

Lab grown diamonds are visually the same as mined diamonds, but they are not identical to the point where there is any confusion among laboratory trained and skilled experts. Simple screening tools are growing in number which extend separation of lab versus mined down to even the nearly untrained counter person.

Folks who love diamonds will make up their own minds about how to spend their money. Do they want some element of investment or are they only looking for "looks"? To each their own. Does a buyer want some degree of rarity, or is a visual copy a better fit for their needs, budget and personality? Everyone will decide what is best for them. However, understanding there are a series of "differences" between lab and mined diamonds is an important bit of knowledge. They look the same and act the same in the visual world, but they are not the same under close scientific scrutiny or as a long term quasi-financial investment.

Thank you for this great review!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,217
@kenny, thank you for that. Good to know GIA deal with lab diamonds now.

I also understand that GIA issues ‘reports’, AGS ‘documents’, HRD ‘certificates’. Just using common English here rather than what would be language appropriate in the US legal sense.

Understood. ;))

FWIW, here's why I'm on a bit of a crusade (futile, I realize) regarding the widely used (actually misused) term, certificate.

Many vendors love using (actually misusing) the term because it helps overcome natural fear many diamond customers have.
The term feels good because it assures, actually certifies, that what they are buying, and its specs, are officially and indisputably set in stone.
Unofrtunately, as extensively reported here on PS, much misinformation, even lies, come from the lips of some diamond vendors.
Anything to push an on the spot sale.
Worse, their competitors share in this deception.

To that I say ... :angryfire:

I'd prefer all businesses were honest and ethical with their customers.
 

heididdl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
2,928
The precise use of words has always been of interest to me. In gemology, a synthetic gemstone is one with the same chemical and optical properties as the natural, mined gemstone of the same species and variety. With diamonds, the powers that be have determined that since diamond is an element, carbon, that regardless of how it comes into being, that lab grown ones are not "synthetic" diamonds. This is in opposition to what has been common and well understood terminology for 50 plus years, but really, it is an argument that isn't worth a lot of time getting upset about.

Mined diamonds have a degree of rarity that lab grown will never have. As we see more lab diamonds enter the market at ever lower cost prices, the low end qualities of mined diamonds will struggle to compete, since lab diamonds will look far better in terms of color, clarity and transparency. Some mining operations will struggle to stay open if they have a rather low end quality level of rough production. This may drive prices higher for mined diamonds as fewer mines will remain open and profitable.

The market will find room for manmade diamonds at fairly low end prices and it will also support increasingly rare mined diamonds at higher prices than the current level. Neither product will wipe out interest in the other, but the balance of the current market may shift over time in ways we have not been able to plan on. Don't expect much second hand interest in the sale of lab grown diamonds. The value fresh from the lab will be pretty reasonable. Maybe there will be some small residual value and maybe next to none. The market is free to act and surely, there will be a market of some sort where lab grown diamonds will find new homes. I don't think anyone will toss them in the trash, but I can't begin to predict how much they may be worth "'used".

The current production techniques give us very consistent production of lab grown diamonds. The near colorless ones are all type IIA and only about 1% of mined diamonds are this type. It has to do with complex chemistry of the nitrogen in the crystal lattice of the diamonds. What is important to understand, is that skilled gemologists with proper equipment and training can readily separate mined from lab diamonds. There is little reason to think this will change. There are several consistent clues to make these determinations and this won't change overnight since there is no good reason to make major investments in equipment to make such changes just to make lab diamonds more difficult to detect. Detection will remain an expert skill, but detection won't ever be a big problem for the trade.

There are relatively small and affordable machines to detect tiny to large lab grown diamonds from mined diamonds. More devices are coming online and the work is becoming easier, not more difficult.

Lab grown diamonds are visually the same as mined diamonds, but they are not identical to the point where there is any confusion among laboratory trained and skilled experts. Simple screening tools are growing in number which extend separation of lab versus mined down to even the nearly untrained counter person.

Folks who love diamonds will make up their own minds about how to spend their money. Do they want some element of investment or are they only looking for "looks"? To each their own. Does a buyer want some degree of rarity, or is a visual copy a better fit for their needs, budget and personality? Everyone will decide what is best for them. However, understanding there are a series of "differences" between lab and mined diamonds is an important bit of knowledge. They look the same and act the same in the visual world, but they are not the same under close scientific scrutiny or as a long term quasi-financial investment.

REally appreciate this even though I've read so much. I don't think I could pull a trigger on Lab grown even though I'm about to drop a $$ on 3.0 studs lab grown would be so much cheaper.
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
914
Still many stones are sold without certificate which would make it easy to just sell it as diamond (for a higher price) and not specifically as lab grown diamond. Or?

MMD are often inscribed as such, even when they lack paperwork, but you raise a valid concern.
 

monipod

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
1,041
It's possible, but I think mostly a problem with people seeking a VVS2 and above mined stone which won't have the sort of inclusions you'd expect to see in a natural stone. I suppose it's possible to pass off an IF lab stone as a mined IF stone in theory?
 
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