**kenny**

[CJ2008]

kenny,

I just read your response about picking up the tab...

you're so funny -

a lot of the things you say really resonate with me, in that post, and in others.

I probably wouldn't DO a lot of the things you say, even though I also I like things 100% clear. A lot of times you've asked why people don't speak up in the name of being "nice." I think for me, even though I am more straightforward than most, I have a tendency to want to avoid confrontation.

I have to also say, though, that my DH taught me that sometimes when it comes to dealing with people, you don't always have to be truthful about everything (that was always my tendency - like "thanks for the invite, but I'd rather go see that movie alone" haha - he's taught me that sometimes saying things slightly different still gets you what you want without the person having to know the REAL why.

Anyway - if I knew you IRL I think we would get along well - although at times I might be like "damn, kenny, did you really have to know that right now?" haha

Curious about something...and of course you could choose not to answer...do you consider yourself a control freak?

 

[kenny]

Thanks CJ.
I realize I am not a usual person.

I find I'm more at peace when how I am on the outside is as similar as possible to how I am on the inside.
Actually this involves giving up control.

I find it takes an enormous amount of energy controlling how others perceive me.
I find being true to myself and trusting my instincts results in others liking me for what really matters.
I have no shallow or fake friendships.

I have run across a couple people who live their lives in fear (terror actually) of what others think of them.
These people are not comfortable around me, understandable really because I think I inadvertently become a mirror.

At night when I lay my head down I fall asleep instantly.

 

[CJ2008]

I don''t consider mysefl "usual" either.

You are so right about what you said about spending energy controlling how others perceive us.

Do you try to find a way to say what you need to say, or do you say it 100% just like you think it? And how do you deal with someone being sensitive to something you just said? (or do you not care?)

Sorry for all the questions - I''m genuinely curious about you! (and I know you''ll tell me to mind my own business if you need to

)

 

[kenny]

Yes, directness can take some getting used to.
Certain people in my life are quite the opposite, very passive aggressive and far away from themselves with low self confidence.
They are not able to ask outright for anything.

Hypothetical example: my wife says, "If you are going to do your laundry today can you also throw in what''s in my laundry basket too?".
I reply, "You can just ask me to do your laundry. It''s okay."

Wife shuts down in annoyance over being taught how to be.
Directness and clarity is seen as rudeness to some.

I also understand that I need to adjust to how others are.
We are only in charge of one person on this planet.

But when people post their social dilemmas here they are asking for feedback and I give mine just like everyone else.

 

[kenny]

CJ you just helped me realize something.
You wrote that you like to avoid confrontation.

Avoiding confrontation was the mantra of my childhood.
My dad was a violent alcoholic.
Anything could set him off.
We four kids and my mom were victims of terrible physical and psychological abuse. (I'm absolutely NOT looking for sympathy here, just presenting relevant info.)

Children are like computers with no software.
We get programed or wired based on what happens to us when we are children.
I was wired to avoid confrontation (with this key figure, my father) to avoid violence.

I'm in my 50s now and somewhere along the way I finally learned that my dad was the bad guy, not me.
Somehow this freed me up to stop being a doormat to everyone in my life.
Perhaps I take it too far the other way, what I call the rubber band effect.

I certainly do not like confrontation or seek it out.
I get along swimmingly with everyone I know.
But I see standing my ground as appropriate in many instances when society or (insert authority figure or entity here) would tell you to cave in.

Thanks for helping me understand this better.
I think of life as a journey towards our true self.

 

[jewelerman]

Date: 9/22/2009 2:12:05 PM
Author: kenny
CJ you just helped me realize something.
You wrote that you like to avoid confrontation.

Avoiding confrontation was the mantra of my childhood.
My dad was a violent alcoholic.
Anything could set him off.
We four kids and my mom were victims of terrible physical and psychological abuse. (I''m absolutely NOT looking for sympathy here, just presenting relevant info.)

Children are like computers with no software.
We get programed or wired based on what happens to us when we are children.
I was wired to avoid confrontation (with this key figure, my father) to avoid violence.

I''m in my 50s now and somewhere along the way I finally learned that my dad was the bad guy, not me.
Somehow this freed me up to stop being a doormat to everyone in my life.
Perhaps I take it too far the other way, what I call the rubber band effect.

I certainly do not like confrontation or seek it out.
I get along swimmingly with everyone I know.
But I see standing my ground as appropriate in many instances when society or (insert authority figure or entity here) would tell you to cave in.

Thanks for helping me understand this better.
I think of life as a journey towards our true self.

Kenny i have found this thread both interesting and enlightning.I applaude those who can stand up for themselves but at the same time be considerate and non judgemental of the others around them.Finding the balance is important.

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 9/22/2009 2:10:07 PM
Author: kenny
Yes, directness can take some getting used to.
Certain people in my life are quite the opposite, very passive aggressive and far away from themselves with low self confidence.
They are not able to ask outright for anything.

Hypothetical example: my wife says, ''If you are going to do your laundry today can you also throw in what''s in my laundry basket too?''.
I reply, ''You can just ask me to do your laundry. It''s okay.''

Wife shuts down in annoyance over being taught how to be.
Directness and clarity is seen as rudeness to some.

I also understand that I need to adjust to how others are.
We are only in charge of one person on this planet.

But when people post their social dilemmas here they are asking for feedback and I give mine just like everyone else.

I have to say, I sound a lot like the example you gave above. I would probably ask DH in just that way. My first thought was to say that usually, it''s because what''s going on inside my mind is the feeling of "teamwork," of pleasantness, of being nice to each other.

But...

If I really think about it there''s less "fear" in being indirect. I can''t pinpoint whether the fear is that the other person will say no or if there''s guilt behind asking in the first place - hence the request is masked.

I have to say though that I would LOVE if my DH continually said "you can ask me to do x or y - it''s OK" - I think eventually it would really help me believe that it really is OK.

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 9/22/2009 2:12:05 PM
Author: kenny
CJ you just helped me realize something.
You wrote that you like to avoid confrontation.

Avoiding confrontation was the mantra of my childhood.
My dad was a violent alcoholic.
Anything could set him off.
We four kids and my mom were victims of terrible physical and psychological abuse. (I''m absolutely NOT looking for sympathy here, just presenting relevant info.)

Children are like computers with no software.
We get programed or wired based on what happens to us when we are children.
I was wired to avoid confrontation (with this key figure, my father) to avoid violence.

I''m in my 50s now and somewhere along the way I finally learned that my dad was the bad guy, not me.
Somehow this freed me up to stop being a doormat to everyone in my life.
Perhaps I take it too far the other way, what I call the rubber band effect.

I certainly do not like confrontation or seek it out.
I get along swimmingly with everyone I know.
But I see standing my ground as appropriate in many instances when society or (insert authority figure or entity here) would tell you to cave in.

Thanks for helping me understand this better.
I think of life as a journey towards our true self.

Oh you''re so welcome. That''s why I love these types of conversations - sometimes just by asking a question becasuse we''re curious about something, it sparks something for the person.

Your post did the same for me, actually.

Without revealing more than I''m comfortable with, let''s just say that I was really afraid of making one of my parents angry. Not because they would hit me, or because they would drink, or do antyhing abusive. But because they would withdraw emotionally, and I had to figure out how I could get them back to being themselves and not being mad at me any more.

Although I''ve made this connection before, do you know that it feels brand new every time it surfaces?

Unreal.

Maybe that''s where my rubber band comes in...after trying so hard to be accepted, maybe that''s part of how I became more of a loner than a social person.

Interesting.

Thanks for indulging me in this conversation!

And jewelerman, glad you stopped in...I agree with you about finding that balance between straight and standing up for yourself and being considerate.

 

[kenny]

I have a friend who will call and say, "So, what do you have planned this weekend?"
I''ll say, "Nothing."

She''ll say, "Good, there''s an art opening Saturday night at 7. I''m so glad you are free, we''ll have so much fun".

First establishing that I''m free is manipulative.
It is her way of making it harder for me to say no.
BTW, I will always decline her invitations when presented this way.
I also have told her I don''t like when she does this.

I would never do that; I''d just bring up the event and invite the person.
Then if the person cares to either say No or I''m busy that''s their business.

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 9/22/2009 3:19:55 PM
Author: kenny
I have a friend who will call and say, ''So, what do you have planned this weekend?''
I''ll say, ''Nothing.''

She''ll say, ''Good, there''s an art opening Saturday night at 7. I''m so glad you are free, we''ll have so much fun''.

First establishing that I''m free is manipulative.
It is her way of making it harder for me to say no.
BTW, I will always decline her invitations when presented this way.
I also have told her I don''t like when she does this.

I would never do that; I''d just bring up the event and invite the person.
Then if the person cares to either say No or I''m busy that''s their business.

Oh, I used to have a friend in high school who did this to me ALL THE TIME.

She would call and ask, "what are you doing?" and I would innocently respond "nothing" and then she''d go, "oh, great, I need you to take me here and there."

I am not joking.

First of all, to me, "nothing" means I am home relaxing by myself. Just how I like it.

It does not mean "I am bored" in any way, shape or form. I don''t know what it means to be bored.

In my life now, I am certain I would be able to tell the person, "oh, I''m sorry, I didn''t mean I wanted to go out and do anything."

Back then, though, I would get in my car, fuming inside, but too afraid to make her mad or have her think I was selfish. I remember one time I had stayed home to study for a test, and ended up driving her around instead. I can''t believe I would feel so guilty and be so afraid of what someone would think of me and think I was selfish that I would do that to myself.

Really, that''s probably why the serious rubber band effect now.

 

[kenny]

Opps, double post

 

[kenny]

Date: 9/22/2009 3:27:34 PM
Author: CJ2008


Back then, though, I would get in my car, fuming inside, but too afraid to make her mad or have her think I was selfish. I remember one time I had stayed home to study for a test, and ended up driving her around instead. I can't believe I would feel so guilty and be so afraid of what someone would think of me and think I was selfish that I would do that to myself.

This is a classic example of that fake niceness that I speak against.

Nice on the outside.
Angry on the inside.

Not healthy.
Not necessary either.
Just be at least as nice to yourself as you are to others.

I used to be a madness-in-others-prevention machine.

 

[CJ2008]

Date: 9/22/2009 3:36:10 PM
Author: kenny

Date: 9/22/2009 3:27:34 PM
Author: CJ2008


Back then, though, I would get in my car, fuming inside, but too afraid to make her mad or have her think I was selfish. I remember one time I had stayed home to study for a test, and ended up driving her around instead. I can''t believe I would feel so guilty and be so afraid of what someone would think of me and think I was selfish that I would do that to myself.

This is a classic example of that fake niceness that I speak against.

Nice on the outside.
Angry on the inside.

Not healthy.
Not necessary either.
Just be at least as nice to yourself as you are to others.

I used to be a madness-in-others-prevention machine.

Absolutely agree.

Although I would have to say that I don''t even think I would ATTRACT a person like that into my life now...

However - DH possibly could since he''s always making friends with someone

haha

 

[oddoneout]

Kenny I''m glad you''ve gotten over a horrible childhood. Also I want to say I really admire people who speak their mind.

 

[Amethyste]

Kenny is like a Cadbury egg: Soft and sweet inside

 

[kenny]

Thanks guys.
Hugs all around.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/22/2009 2:10:07 PM
Author: kenny
Yes, directness can take some getting used to.

Certain people in my life are quite the opposite, very passive aggressive and far away from themselves with low self confidence.

They are not able to ask outright for anything.


Hypothetical example: my wife says, ''If you are going to do your laundry today can you also throw in what''s in my laundry basket too?''.

I reply, ''You can just ask me to do your laundry. It''s okay.''


Wife shuts down in annoyance over being taught how to be.

Directness and clarity is seen as rudeness to some.


I also understand that I need to adjust to how others are.

We are only in charge of one person on this planet.


But when people post their social dilemmas here they are asking for feedback and I give mine just like everyone else.

See I see a difference between what she asked of you and a paraphrasal that you gave... she is saying IF you are doing laundry do mine - but if you AREN''T doing laundry then feel free to leave mine as well. yours just has her asking you to do it whether you do yours or not.