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Fluorescent lit image
Kazumi Okuda''s Other Invention
- Thread starter Superidealist
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Idealscope image
wanderlost
Shiny_Rock
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Hey.... check it out.... that green light image illuminates the minor facets (the black triangles that I like so much in IS images)!
I believe the alignment may be a few microns off (as there's not a pair at every location) but it seems that this instrument would allow you to really go through and view with symmetry/alignment of these facets without those 'pesky arrows' showing up too! I'm really diggin' on this piece of equipment - let us know Neil if you need more diamonds to play with to get some good photos with this scope.
I believe the alignment may be a few microns off (as there's not a pair at every location) but it seems that this instrument would allow you to really go through and view with symmetry/alignment of these facets without those 'pesky arrows' showing up too! I'm really diggin' on this piece of equipment - let us know Neil if you need more diamonds to play with to get some good photos with this scope.
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wander,
I know you are local to me, you are welcome to come down and play with it for a while if you like. It is a pretty interesting piece of equipment.
I'm sure you're correct that the alignment is off in the pictures because the main table reflection is offcenter. I think the triangluar images in the green picture are lower girdle facets as seen through the star facets.
Neil
I know you are local to me, you are welcome to come down and play with it for a while if you like. It is a pretty interesting piece of equipment.
I'm sure you're correct that the alignment is off in the pictures because the main table reflection is offcenter. I think the triangluar images in the green picture are lower girdle facets as seen through the star facets.
Neil
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Its hard to know what to make of it Neil?
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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Here are photos taken with another device, neither a Firescope nor an Okuda microscope. They come from the same source that provided Garry with the scans of the Okuda microscope manual.
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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D Riley
Cool images. Are they all the same stone? What's the tool being used and what was adjusted to make the differences in the pictures?
Neil
Cool images. Are they all the same stone? What's the tool being used and what was adjusted to make the differences in the pictures?
Neil
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Brilliant_Rock
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I believe the first two are the same and the last three are the same. The angle of incidence is varying in the photos. The tool used was invented by a gentleman named Mr. Zancanella who once represented Okuda's microscopes in Italy. He continued to develop instrumentation based on Okuda's microscope unaware that similar work was being done in Japan.
These are similar to the GilbertsonScope (and probably the ASET being developed by the AGS) in that they show the effects of light coming at the diamond from various angles whereas the Firescope and Ideal-Scope do not.
These are similar to the GilbertsonScope (and probably the ASET being developed by the AGS) in that they show the effects of light coming at the diamond from various angles whereas the Firescope and Ideal-Scope do not.
wanderlost
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it's hard to make heads or tails of the first two images, I believe the stone that they represent is not very well cut.
the last three however are quite interesting (look to be an Eightstar?)....
the first I can't find a general use for (if not just to view leakage in a different way), the second appears in most respects to be an IS-style image and the third a way of clearly defining the 'accuracy' of the arrows.
the last three however are quite interesting (look to be an Eightstar?)....
the first I can't find a general use for (if not just to view leakage in a different way), the second appears in most respects to be an IS-style image and the third a way of clearly defining the 'accuracy' of the arrows.
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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The last three are of an EightStar diamond, I believe.
Garry has corresponded with Mr. Zancanella and may be able to persuade him to say more about this.
I have emailed Zeiss for information on the history of their proportion loupe but their archivist won't be back until September 9th. I'll pass along whatever he can tell me about the Zeiss loupe and its predecessors when he contacts me.
Garry has corresponded with Mr. Zancanella and may be able to persuade him to say more about this.
I have emailed Zeiss for information on the history of their proportion loupe but their archivist won't be back until September 9th. I'll pass along whatever he can tell me about the Zeiss loupe and its predecessors when he contacts me.
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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I have been looking into the history of red-ringed proportion loupes and, let me tell you, there's not much history out there to be had.
I contacted Zeiss archivist, Dr. Wolfgang Wimmer, regarding the Zeiss proportion loupe and was referred to Rüdiger Landsinger, manager of Zeiss's Magnifying Visual Devices section, who informed me that this loupe is an unauthorized modification of a Zeiss product. He had no other information on it.
I also spoke with Rubin & Son, an Antwerp-based gemological instrument manufacturer, and was told that they had sold a similar Nikon-made loupe in the early 1970's but that the loupe was no longer manufactured.
To complicate matters, Yuko Shigeta, of Nikon's International Sales & Marketing Department, checked Nikon company records and could find no evidence of such a product ever having been maufactured by Nikon. (Perhaps it was also a modification?)
So all we are left with is that Rubin & Son sold a possibly modified Nikon loupe sometime in the early 1970's.
I contacted Zeiss archivist, Dr. Wolfgang Wimmer, regarding the Zeiss proportion loupe and was referred to Rüdiger Landsinger, manager of Zeiss's Magnifying Visual Devices section, who informed me that this loupe is an unauthorized modification of a Zeiss product. He had no other information on it.
I also spoke with Rubin & Son, an Antwerp-based gemological instrument manufacturer, and was told that they had sold a similar Nikon-made loupe in the early 1970's but that the loupe was no longer manufactured.
To complicate matters, Yuko Shigeta, of Nikon's International Sales & Marketing Department, checked Nikon company records and could find no evidence of such a product ever having been maufactured by Nikon. (Perhaps it was also a modification?)
So all we are left with is that Rubin & Son sold a possibly modified Nikon loupe sometime in the early 1970's.
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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Ms. Shigeta has written me again to confirm that the loupe sold by Rubin & Son was definitely not an official Nikon product. She suspects it was, again, modified by a third party.
Hi, I stumbled onto this conversation about the Okuda scope. I have one of them and I learned how to use it in the 70''s. The abilities of the scope were remarkable, but some of the features, you are not quite on track with. The green light served on one purpose and that was to make sure that the diamond was perpendicular to the scope. If you notice on the side of the round flourescent light, there is a scale. The desired point for checking a diamonds brilliance was 36 degrees. It is only this that is used for determining brilliance. With this you could alter the angle of the light coming in and it was often helpful for illuminating inclusions. You could also take the light from the side that went into the green filter and mount it below for backfield illumination on the diamond.
The fancy eyepiece at the top was an amazing piece of engineering. They used that to grade clarity and color. The idea of grading clarity was simply measuring the size. The inclusion was placed in the center of a series of graduated circles in the eyepiece and you would get the one that it fit completely in. You then found the size of circle that fit in the width of the inclusion. The length plus the width gave a number that you checked on a scale. You then had your clarity grading. Location made a difference as those under the crown facets were multiplied by .8 and those on the girdle were multiplied by .5. If two inclusions were closer than the "2" circle, they counted as one.
The eyepiece also graded the color of the diamond. I personally always had the most difficulty with. The results though were always consistent with GIA graded stones. The diamond was mounted on the side and you looked at it with the table "touching" the graduated color scale in the eyepiece. With the girdle in sharp focus, you compared the tone of the area below the girdle (pavillion side) against the tone of the color scale. It was light or dark shades. You compared above and below on the grades until you zoned in on the color. I discovered that a black shield around the microscope made doing this much easier as room light made comparisons more difficult.
Something I really like about the scope was the fact that you could do your measurements directly on the microscope. There is a millimeter vernier scale on the mechanical table holding the stones. Since you could get your stone perpendicular and your focal length consistent, you could move the stone around freely and measure with your cross hairs. This was real handy with diamonds that that you could see the culet but could not get a tool in there or measuring the table.
It was a very good tool. Of course, the microscope will not supplant experience and education, but with this, I found I could teach a novice and substantially raise their ability with correct and consistent results.
Your manual is slightly different than mine and you are missing a lot of content. I have 12 pages in all plus the cover. I hope this helps.
Fred H
The fancy eyepiece at the top was an amazing piece of engineering. They used that to grade clarity and color. The idea of grading clarity was simply measuring the size. The inclusion was placed in the center of a series of graduated circles in the eyepiece and you would get the one that it fit completely in. You then found the size of circle that fit in the width of the inclusion. The length plus the width gave a number that you checked on a scale. You then had your clarity grading. Location made a difference as those under the crown facets were multiplied by .8 and those on the girdle were multiplied by .5. If two inclusions were closer than the "2" circle, they counted as one.
The eyepiece also graded the color of the diamond. I personally always had the most difficulty with. The results though were always consistent with GIA graded stones. The diamond was mounted on the side and you looked at it with the table "touching" the graduated color scale in the eyepiece. With the girdle in sharp focus, you compared the tone of the area below the girdle (pavillion side) against the tone of the color scale. It was light or dark shades. You compared above and below on the grades until you zoned in on the color. I discovered that a black shield around the microscope made doing this much easier as room light made comparisons more difficult.
Something I really like about the scope was the fact that you could do your measurements directly on the microscope. There is a millimeter vernier scale on the mechanical table holding the stones. Since you could get your stone perpendicular and your focal length consistent, you could move the stone around freely and measure with your cross hairs. This was real handy with diamonds that that you could see the culet but could not get a tool in there or measuring the table.
It was a very good tool. Of course, the microscope will not supplant experience and education, but with this, I found I could teach a novice and substantially raise their ability with correct and consistent results.
Your manual is slightly different than mine and you are missing a lot of content. I have 12 pages in all plus the cover. I hope this helps.
Fred H
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Fred,
Thanks for the insight. I"ll play with it some more tomorrow. May I please have a copy of that instruction book?
Neil
Thanks for the insight. I"ll play with it some more tomorrow. May I please have a copy of that instruction book?
Neil
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Hooray and welcome!!!
I would love to see a copy of the manual Fred.
Could you (would you pretty please) scan it, or photocopy and mail me please?
Do I understand you that it seems that it was not designed for light return?
I would love to see a copy of the manual Fred.
Could you (would you pretty please) scan it, or photocopy and mail me please?
Do I understand you that it seems that it was not designed for light return?
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Fred,
If its less trouble to mail to a US address, I will be happy to forward a copy on to Garry. He lives rather far from here. We would really appreciate a copy. As you can tell, this has been a subject for quite some time and there is a fair amount of confusion.
Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
If its less trouble to mail to a US address, I will be happy to forward a copy on to Garry. He lives rather far from here. We would really appreciate a copy. As you can tell, this has been a subject for quite some time and there is a fair amount of confusion.
Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver
Superidealist
Brilliant_Rock
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This is welcome and valuable information. Hopefully, the full manual can eventually be posted to this thread so that all may see.
This really does seem to be the nail in the coffin in terms of the Okuda microscope being an influence on the Firescope and its descendants. I think what gave us the mistaken impression that it had been was that the device was introduced to us by someone who was using a modification of the scope in a way other than has been described.
This leaves red-ringed grading loupes such as the one described as being sold by Okuda and even earlier by Rubin & Son (and possibly even earlier in Russia) as the true ancestors of red-reflector technology.
Even though this seems to have been a dead end in terms of tracing the history of the Firescope, you can''t help but be amazed by Okuda. He really does seem to have been well ahead of his time.
This really does seem to be the nail in the coffin in terms of the Okuda microscope being an influence on the Firescope and its descendants. I think what gave us the mistaken impression that it had been was that the device was introduced to us by someone who was using a modification of the scope in a way other than has been described.
This leaves red-ringed grading loupes such as the one described as being sold by Okuda and even earlier by Rubin & Son (and possibly even earlier in Russia) as the true ancestors of red-reflector technology.
Even though this seems to have been a dead end in terms of tracing the history of the Firescope, you can''t help but be amazed by Okuda. He really does seem to have been well ahead of his time.
I will see about scanning the book and posting it. It will be a few days as I have other business I am right in the middle of. I would like to find my original manual for the best quality. I took a photocopy long ago as the working manual. The original is in a safe place. How safe... well, if I can remember where.
To expand more on the question of the green light, it''s sole purpose is to make sure that the table is perpendicular to the scope. When the green table is reflected back into the eyepiece, you have the diamond in the correct position.
You do have the right idea though, that the Okuda scope did try to judge brilliance along the idea of the firescope, but you were looking at the wrong light for it. That is what the circular C light in the hood is for. If you think about it, he could determine the angle that the light would hit the diamond because your focal length is always exactly the same and the hood is attached to the microscope barrel. You got your patterns using white light.
My manual also refers to an optional brilliancy meter. I never had it or saw one so I cannot comment much on that. You will see it in the manual. I will say that Okuda did try to take subjectivity out of the equation.
Another thing about the scope that you may not have realized, was the fact that they tried to "fingerprint" the diamonds for identification. You could take a picture of a diamond at the 36 degree and it would give you the pattern of reflection of the diamond. This was totally reproducable on other Okuda scopes.
Fred H
To expand more on the question of the green light, it''s sole purpose is to make sure that the table is perpendicular to the scope. When the green table is reflected back into the eyepiece, you have the diamond in the correct position.
You do have the right idea though, that the Okuda scope did try to judge brilliance along the idea of the firescope, but you were looking at the wrong light for it. That is what the circular C light in the hood is for. If you think about it, he could determine the angle that the light would hit the diamond because your focal length is always exactly the same and the hood is attached to the microscope barrel. You got your patterns using white light.
My manual also refers to an optional brilliancy meter. I never had it or saw one so I cannot comment much on that. You will see it in the manual. I will say that Okuda did try to take subjectivity out of the equation.
Another thing about the scope that you may not have realized, was the fact that they tried to "fingerprint" the diamonds for identification. You could take a picture of a diamond at the 36 degree and it would give you the pattern of reflection of the diamond. This was totally reproducable on other Okuda scopes.
Fred H
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