Kashmir sapphires

[Mayacamas]

A new topic for consideration:

To the sapphire experts I have a question- Mogok, Richard, Ana and KashmirBlue( plus everyone else who wants to chime in.....)

The people who have seen "great" Kashmir sapphires in person.

What characteristics make a Kashmir sapphire so desirable. In the world of blue sapphires its held as the paragon- the pictures show a "glowing" blue jewel.

In your personal opinion, how much better or perhaps how much DIFFERENT are they from a great Ceylon or Burmese stone- I realize these stones have different characteristics than Kashmir.

What should the well educated layperson know?

I have recently seen "more" Kashmir stones available from reputable dealers, but still truly great Kashmir is so rare I have never seen it in person.

Thanks

Halee/Maya

 

[Mayacamas]

For example.................

P.S. Thanks to Cherry Picked, for whom I "borrowed" the picture from.

 

[Mayacamas]

and I borrowed this from Kashmir blue

 

[Mayacamas]

Finally, borrowed from the gemstone bible- Richard Hughes' Ruby and Sapphire

( I try to borrow from the best................)

 

[valeria101]

I shouldn''t be on that list !

maybe another lifetime ...

The most I could do is add to the question here.

It is hard for me to understand how classic sources work as trade names. They appear to have an ambivalent quality standing in for both geographic origin and quality, but obviously the two do not overlap perfectly. Mines do not come with in-built quality assurance checks; hence trouble. At least when asking for "Persian turquoise" I know to expect a certain quality - fullstop. Once the price tag goes up, things are no longer simple. Does it take more than the money factor to induce complexity ? Good question...

Have you ever been offered some drab sapphire priced for proper Kashmir origin alone ? The presence of such merchandise would make sound proof that origin is valued independent of quality. As is, the name comes as the cherry on some already out of this world goods. As if the very best of a mine gets to be made into global standard. The practice makes allot of sense, even without geologic backup.

Is your question the same as asking: what does the best blue sapphire look like ? That one can hardly have an answer, I hope you would agree. If so, it becomes difficult to follow asking where the best comes from, as far as I understand.

If despite the axiomatic approach there is a direct answer based on some line up of sapphire samples, it would came as a surprise. Can''t wait !

The somewhat related "what is the highest priced" or "what is more valuable" may get answered though, and I guess the word "Kashmir" comes up for the ocasion whatever it may mean.



Anyway, I assume you already went through the website of Ed Cleveland (www.kashmirblue.com) and this.

 

[Sagebrush]

I have seen a number of Kashmir sapphires. Kashmir earned their reputation due to two factors, incredible color and a characteristic sleepy quality due to very small inclusions that resemble silk but are normally unresolvable under very high magnification. Many of the stones I have seen have been Kashmir in origin but lacked one of the two qualities that made the Kashmir name.

I have also seen several Ceylon sapphires that had the "Kashmir" characteristics listed above. In my view Kashmir is a type that displays the qualities not a geographical origin. Those who pay a premium price for a stone just because it carries with it a piece of paper certifying its geographic origin miss the point entirely. I would not pay a dime more for a Kashmir origin that looked like a Ceylon but would gladly pay a premium price for a Ceylon with kashmir characteristics.

 

[Mayacamas]

Sleepiness?

I think I see this in the pictures I posted frim Cherrypicked and Ruby-Sapphire.

Can anyone verbally describe it?

Thanks

Halee

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/26/2004 8:50:3 AM
Author: Mayacamas

Sleepiness?

Somethins like this... I guess. This one has lots of silk, but it is also quite large so the texture plays light down a bit. A smaller stone of the same material would be brighter, I think. If this is "velvet" than a smaller (and/or) brighter sapphire with some slight silk would look like silk velvet - soft, but with some crazy bright flash when light hits just so.

It seems that this kind of desirable inclusions is not much talked about on it's own, not related to Kashmir sapphire. Surely any color and quality of sapphire may come slightly translucent. If there is not enough color in such material, than lower clarity is no longer a badge of merit - just plain fault. This may be just an optical illusion due to my lack of experience, but to me it seems that silk works as a color revelator - helps vivid color stand out even more, but lessens any excuse brilliance might make for slightly grayish saturation or overly dark tone.

Hope the 0.2 worth invites some more coment. It doesn't seem entirely fair to ask VVS clarity from colored gems all the time, even on a diamond forum.

 

[widget]

Hopefully, one of the pros will chime in here, but here''s my understanding (guess?)...

I believe that the characteristic inclusions..silk?.. mentioned above sort of ''soften'' the look of a kashmir, and afford it a "glow" is consistantly visible, regardless of lighting.

Maybe it''s the "velvet underground" that Richard mentioned in another thread...

Anyway, I''ve never seen one, but sure would like to!

widget

 

[mogok]

Hello,

I have to say first that I''m not a good expert in Kashmir sapphires: They are very rare in Bangkok market and we dont see many at AIGS laboratory. I think that Richard Hugues will be the guy to answer this topic as he is much more familiar with these stones than i''m.

To my opinion the things that make a great Kashmir so desireable is the fact that these stones can have both a very high blue saturation, a middle tone and these tiny inclusions that if they reduce the stone transparency add some sweetness to it. Because of this last point I completly agree with Richard Wise when he say that "kashmir" is more a type than an origin. I''ve seen from many places stones that have a "Kashmir look" ( From Burma, Pailin, Madagascar,...)

Now Kashmir sapphires are quite typical geologically speaking as their gemological properties are very close to each other which is not the case for Burmese or madagascar sapphires. This help a lot in "orgin determination": Pargasite inclusions, typical chemical fingerprint and typical spectrum on UV-Vis spectroscopy are seen diagnostic to identify "kashmir" origin. But as I say often: origin is not a statement of quality, it add some romance to the stone.

Now your question went on how they can be different from Burmese and Sri Lankan gems? Well I can tell you that some stones from Kashmir, Burma, Sri Lanka or Madagascar can look very similar. But in people mind Kashmir are "velvety cornflower blue", Burmese are "royal blue" (Deep blue with a tint of violet) and Sri lanka gems have a "sharper" aspect.

Asking which one is the best is the same to me as if you asked me which one of these 3 girls are the most beautiful: Whith black hair, blond hair or red? Each may have a personal opinion but the only one that really matters at the end is yours!

All the best,

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

A terminology I liketo use is "Blue on blue" (or Green on green for emeralds and red on red for rubies).

It is of course the fine silky inclusions mentioned above that cause this effect.

I am sure there are far more Kashmir Sapp''s around today than were ever mined there.
But Mo'' I will take all three ladies if I may

, but only if they have blue on blue eyes

 

[rubydick]

Date: 12/24/2004 9:58

4 AM
Author: Mayacamas
Finally, borrowed from the gemstone bible- Richard Hughes'' Ruby and Sapphire
( I try to borrow from the best................)

Mayacamas,

That photo is actually courtesy of Henry Hänni of the SSEF. It''s a great pic because not only does it show several excellent examples of faceted Kashmir sapphires, but also several pieces of rough.

But in answer to the larger question of what characteristics make a fine Kashmir stone so nice, there are a few. Specifically:

1. Kashmir stones tend to hold their color better than others in a variety of lights.

2. The saturation of the Kashmir blue hue is extremely high, and yet the tone is not overly dark. Mogok sapphires also have a high saturation, but tend to be overly dark in tone.

3. The fine particle inclusions in Kashmir stones produce a subtle scattering that softens the color and masks extinction.

For the record, I''ve seen some superb pieces from Madagascar, Sri Lanka and Burma, stones that are extremely close to the finest pieces I''ve seen from Kashmir.

But the finest sapphires--nay--the finest jewels I''ve ever seen have been from Kashmir. Specifically I reference a matched pair of 10-ct. (each) sugarloaf cabs. These suckers were so seriously tasty, I actually started to examine a career change. Okay, I know, most all thieves eventually get caught. But I figured I had this one nailed, I had the perfect allibi: temporary insanity. One look at these jewels and there woudn''t be a court in the world that would convict me.

 

[Mayacamas]

Hmmmm................temporary insanity....................

Must be what my husband thinks of all the time I spend on Pricescope..................