Kanchanaburi Sapphire????

[day_lily_me]

I have e-mailed a couple of you privately since I didn''t think I knew enough to ask the whole group but y''all seem harmless so I''m taking my chances. I have a ring mounting that my Mother gave me and it''s an 18K yellow gold mounting with invisible set princess cut diamonds in a double row along each side and then two rows separated by the place a stone goes - perpendicular to sliding it on. I want to put a sapphire in the middle and it lends itself to an elongated cut and I''ve always wanted an emerad cut diamond so I''m set on the emerald cut sapphire. The picture that I''ve attached is one that I found from a dealer on ebay and he says it''s in his collection and that it is a Kanchanaburi sapphire. He says it''s heat treated but that they don''t use any beryllium treatment or any other kind (I asked about the beryllium and other treatments). He''s asking $500/carat. It looks to be a pretty stone - I guess I''m just worried about buying it without seeing it in person although he has a guarantee return policy if I''m not satisfied. I''ve looked at several stones locally and the one that is my favorite so far is a 3.96 lighter blue stone. The size that I need is around a 10 x 7 to fit the mounting. What I''m looking for doesn''t have to be the finest - just a sparkly to look good for my mounting. Any comments? Thanks in advance.

 

[valeria101]

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On 10/3/2004 7:11:25 PM day_lily_me wrote:



What I'm looking for doesn't have to be the finest - just a sparkly to look good for my mounting.
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Now, I am not sure what you mean by "sparkly". These would be too dark to produce 'flash' or be called 'brilliant' with no reserve. besides, step cuts are not a brilliant cut to begin with. Light color and expert cutting would produce a brilliant sapphire if anything. And lighter color as well as these somewhat dark ones is just as well lower priced.

The picture is not tremendously informative. I can only guess the dark tone, but it is a stretch to judge color at all. So, I am not saying it is not worth looking at these - only I do not see how a dark step cut sapphire could be 'sparkly' or a diamond substitute

 

[yowahking]

Thanks for the PM, now that I see the stones, the one on the left shows some zoning in the picture. If it is visible face up, maybe pass on that one. Sometimes they are visible on a photo at that angle but the cutter did a good job of hiding. I will also PM with the rest.

 

[day_lily_me]

Okay, I admit that I've been told by everybody that knows anything about sapphires that the emerald cut stones are not as brilliant but I can't help it. That's what I want. I know I could get an oval and get more sparkle plus more stones would be available for me to choose from. Besides, this one, I also found a much lighter one - the one I mentioned - and when placed in the mounting, it was lovely. You can see from my mounting that my Mother originally had a pear shaped diamond in it but she had to have the basket changed to do that and to her, it never looked right - too much space around the stone. I have to agree with her and I will have to have it changed back to set my new stone. I know the oval would look great and offer more sparkle but I'm a woman and you know how we are when we get our minds made up about something. The guy that sent those first pictures also sent other pictures against a whiter background and that's why I asked him to send a photo with the stones placed on the back of someones hand. Is there anything wrong with Kanchanaburi sapphires? Are they the Yugo's instead of the Buicks? He says that there is little to no color zoning in the larger stone and that's the one I need for my setting. I am excited for someone to answer my post though. Everyone here knows more than I do about any of this but I'm trying to learn as much as possible so that I don't make too big a mistake and I want to feel good about it.

 

[denverappraiser]

It's extremely difficult ot make a reasonably determination based on a photograph and it's extremely easy to edit a photo. I'm inclined to be very suspicious of this one because of the color saturation in the fingers. They just don't look right to me. I would be concerned that this picture may have been altered to make the stones lighter although this may just be the automatic settings on the camera.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[day_lily_me]

I'm attaching another picture of the stone - the larger one. It's 10.44 x 7.37 x 4.37. Is this stone too dark to look nice in that mounting?

 

[valeria101]

I would not be able to make up my mind looking at those pics only. And no, there is no specific curse about this sapphire source. Unless you already look to choose at the best of the best, I am not sure why would provenance matter.

Get one stone to look at - you may or may not find the color too dark. There is no other potential detraction I can think of looking at these pics.

If you ever conclude that step cuts are not what you want, the choice is not really limited to emerald or oval cuts. There are mixed cut rectangular stones too (more or less like radiant cut diamonds, if you wish). There is always some choice. If you do like these pieces, than it matters little what anyone could have said about the pictures, I guess.

 

[yowahking]

Thanks for posting the ring picture. You will need to use a laser to weld in the new head or you will risk what hold the invisible set together. It will only cost you about $50 for most places but not a ring you want a guy with a torch to solder that size head.

 

[valeria101]

How about this cut? To me the color of the piece below sounds more promissing - but it's still a picture, even if I am more familiar with the source...

 

[denverappraiser]

Ana,

What a lovely sapphire. It's about half the size of the one we're discussing but that's a great looking color (at least in the photo). Is it comparably priced?

day_lily,

It sounds like you've found a keeper. I agree with Scott that you should be careful in your selection of who will be doing the modifications on the ring. It's a little more expensive here than it apparently is in Arizona but the most important thing is to find someone with the right tools and skills. This is not a job to give to the lowest bidder.

Neil Beaty, GG ISA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[day_lily_me]

I like the picture of the stone a lot but it does look to be a little included. And it's too small. I took the mounting to a jeweler yesterday and he measured the length and the minimum I can use is 9.86. I guess the width might not be as important but i dont' want it to look like a baguette when it's set so I need some proportion. The color is beautiful. I don't care where they come from - I was just wondering if they were worth a lot less than those, say, from Sri Lanka. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your input. I feel so priviledged to have so many experts taking their time to answer my post - and you are all expert compared to me. I've done what research I can but still feel incredibly ignorant about it. And thanks for the tip on setting the new basket. I'll mention that when I have it done. I'm not in a horse race to get it done but I'd like to find something as soon as possible. This is going to be for my 38th anniversary and the sapphire is my birthstone. I'm beginning to think that the first stone - the lighter one (also an emerald cut at $2295 for 3.96 carat) I've seen laid in the mounting - might be with one to go with. The guy couldn't tell me where it was from - but then I guess it really doesn't matter as long as I like it. Another place is supposed to be getting in some stones for me to look at this week. He is going to check locally (Houston area) and then he also said he used a program called 'Polygon.net' to see what was available and that I might could find one like that. It will be interesting to see what he gets.

 

[valeria101]

"Slightly included" does not mean "eye visible inclusions" - at least not in this case (according to the seller's terminology and the appearence of the stone)

The color is near tops (only by my taste that happens to require that more saturation 'should' come on a lighter tone although this may not be the norm) - and it is well less expensive than yours. Seller ? Multcolor.com.

 

[day_lily_me]

Ana, I agree with you that that gem is a gorgeous blue. And it has the sparkle I want. Some of you mentioned another possibilities as to cut if I didn't go for the emerald cut. I don't know any of the finer or unusual cuts other than the standard rounds, ovals, cushions, princess, marquise, pear, and maybe square. What are my other options? But the final problem with this particular stone is that it's not big enough so I can't even consider it.

 

[rubydick]

Bo Ploi (Kanchanaburi) has produced some nice sapphires over the past 80+ years, and the piece in the picture looks like a nice one.

Take a look at it in person. If it looks good, go for it.

 

[valeria101]

I definitely agree that a step cut would grace your setting nicely. But... why hold back a nice picture? And, the more serious matter would be that light colored sapphire are great and worth good money as long as they are not grayish. Just one thing to keep in mind.

 

[day_lily_me]

Wow. What a great comparison to look at. It's the length that I need since I want the stone to fill the whole length of the diamonds that will set along side it. I think it would look whimpy if it didn't at least run that length. As far as width goes, I guess it wouldn't have to be quite that wide. I'm a little confused to what you meant by 'holding back a nice picture'?

 

[day_lily_me]

I've seen the amazing 'recuts' by someone mentioned all the time on this site. What could they do with an emerald cut to improve the sparkle? Is having something like that done expensive - anyone?

 

[day_lily_me]

I've seen the amazing 'recuts' by someone mentioned all the time on this site. What could they do with an emerald cut to improve the sparkle? Is having something like that done expensive - anyone?

 

[yowahking]

As Richard said, (and he is the expert), Bo Ploi can be very nice. I had a killer 14ct emerald cut last year. This year I could not find another one that I liked as much. Emerald cuts are what you wanted, I would stay with it unless another jumped out at you. Generally they are not recut to be more fancy. The fancy cutting is more suited for lighter tones. The emerald cuts that you posted looked to be pretty well cut.

 

[mogok]

Well,
I'm a little bit late on this topic... No problem! Many good things has come.
Well the sapphire looks Ok for a very good Kanchanabury. The color I see on my screen and the color banding of the gem fit for this origin. Whatever origin does not really matter if you like the stone and if the price fit you!
But origin can be a little "plus" that taste like a cherry on a cake: If you buy this stone I hope that you will be able to come one day in Thailand and spend some time in the Kanchanabury region (may be you did already) Despite the famous river Kwai bridge and the sad events that happened in the region during WWII it is a very nice region with mountains, rivers and jungles. I had several very nice week end there and get from that a little something for Kanchanabury gems.
For the sparkle I have to say that I cannot advise you as I should see the stone first. But I'm not so fan of all the "mirror effects" cuts... Emerald cut is a cut that is used to favor the color, if you want something with more scintillation may be consider an oval mixed cut. But then it has to fit your mounting. Well you will see it is damn difficult to find the perfect gem. gems are like people: Difficult to find the perfect match. So may be my advise would be: Just go for the one that was the weak point that you can stand...
...and be happy with it!

 

[day_lily_me]

Thanks Mogok. As a matter of fact, I have been to Thailand but didn't go to that region. And when I was there I did not think about or know how to go about finding a nice stone. I really don't care where the stone comes from as long as it's a pretty one although I don't think I want one from Australia but don't know why. And I realize that although I've mentioned sparkle, the emerald cuts don't have as much. I'll have to settle for what I think will be class instead of flash. I just hope to get a nice one. And you're right. I didn't have any idea that it would be so difficult to find the right stone. My friends think I'm crazy for doing all this research - they would just go to a mall store and buy whatever they had - maybe even out of another ring. I don't want to do that. In my humble opinion, a sapphire, which is my birthstone, will look magnificate in that my mounting.