joint account woes (long)

[erica k]

my husband has yet to bounce a check but has incurred more than his share of overdraft fees in the past two years of marriage.

i pay the mortgage, condo fee, and dsl. he pays the insurance and utilities. every month he gives me his share of the mortgage, which i pay from my checking account. we tried using the joint account once, but the online bill pay didn''t go through and the payment was late two days. i should have caught it in time, but boy did i learn from my mistake! i also decided to stick with my reliable big bank, which has never given me a problem with online bill-payments.

recently i ran out of checks for my bank and didn''t feel like paying $40 for a refill (who uses checks anyway? my condo association, that''s who!). i have checks for the joint account (a separate local bank), so i decided to transfer the condo fee amount to this account and use those checks.

my husband apparently thought the money in the joint account was his (i rarely put money in this account), and transferred it to his checking account. the check that i wrote 7 days ago hasn''t been deposited yet, so you can imagine how annoyed i was when i checked the joint account balance this morning. i told him to transfer that money back, and he said he would. this afternoon i called to double check, and he told me that he didn''t have enough money in his checking, but that he transferred money from his savings (this will take at least 4 business days). i became really angry because he should have called me immediately about this. he told me that he didn''t want to upset me or make me go to the bank and deposit more of my money into the joint account to hopefully avoid another overdraft charge.

at any rate, i ran to the bank and deposited the money, fuming the entire time.

a few months ago we decided to split the bills in half because he forgot to pay the auto insurance (he thought it was ''my'' turn even though i had reminded him that it wasn''t). this system has worked pretty well, but clearly he has a hard time keeping our finances straight.

he''s a smart, detail-oriented person (an architect in training and physics major). he''s incredibly responsible about his work, but when it comes to our finances (among other things), he''s very careless and absent-minded. i''m not the most responsible person i know, i''m late to meetings, i buy too much clothing and then skimp on other things, i should have more substantial savings, but i ''always'' pay my bills on time (except for that one time when the online-bill pay didn''t work, which was a technical issue, not a lack of funds).

our system of separate accounts works well for me, but i''m not sure what kind of system would work for him, aside from me building a sizable balance in the joint account for emergencies. he''s living off educational loans right now, whereas i am making money teaching while finishing my dissertation. i''ve tried to be as transparent and helpful as possible. last month i told him to be careful with the joint account because of the condo fee check situation. apparently he forgot.

i send him reminder emails every month to deposit his share of the mortgage in my checking account. this month he deposited the money 5 days before it was due and then failed to follow-up. apparently it didn''t go through because the teller didn''t enter the information correctly. i noticed the problem and made him go to the bank and deal with the issue. that was a close call! he should have noticed that the check hadn''t cleared and told me instead of assuming everything was fine.

sigh. i don''t want to be his keeper. i don''t want to email him to do something and then email him again to double-check that everything went as planned. i get so angry thinking about it. i also feel insulted because it seems like he doesn''t care enough to pay attention to the information that i give him about our various accounts and bills.

i don''t want to turn into my best friend''s parents. their car was repossessed because her dad ''forgot'' to pay their utilities/bills for several months. they make plenty of money, but he''s absent-minded and careless. i don''t want to turn into a nag, nor do i want to control all of our finances. it''s sad, but i keep losing respect for my husband every time he does this. i don''t expect him to take care of me, but i do expect him to do his fair share.


does anyone have advice?

 

[zhuzhu]

I don''t really know what advice to give but just want to give you a big cyber hug....

It is indeed difficult for 2 people with different life habits to live together. Maybe by seeing how responsible you are he will slowly change for the better? In the mean time you do need to keep an eye on the bills to prevent more serious issues. Have a sweet but firm talk with him and let him know how it really bothers you.

 

[neatfreak]

My hubby and I sound a lot like you guys. A lot! Anyway, we solved it a very simple way. I sat down with him one day and made him set up AUTOMATIC transfers into our joint account every month as soon as he gets paid (i.e., pay goes in the first, transfer occurs the first). Then I pay ALL the bills out of that account (most of them are automated, so it is very easy). That's it. Super easy, and ensures that all the bills get paid on time and that he doesn't take days to transfer money. We only use the joint for household stuff, so there is also no chance that he'd use that account to buy "toys".


He's very responsible in many ways, but finances are just not one of his strong points. He's a mathematician, and he claims that because he's a mathematician it virtually assures that he can't do simple addition and subtraction.

 

[erica k]

thanks for your advice!

i think i might have to try automatic transfer, with the one stipulation that our joint account is hands-off to him! i wasn''t too amused by him transferring joint account money into his personal account....

i don''t like the idea of being the sole bill-payer, but maybe that''s what has to be done. neatfreak, it sounds like we have a lot in common. thanks for the suggestion...now i need to chill out and not be too angry with him. what''s done is done....

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

Date: 4/8/2008 7:47:44 PM
Author: erica k
thanks for your advice!

i think i might have to try automatic transfer, with the one stipulation that our joint account is hands-off to him! i wasn''t too amused by him transferring joint account money into his personal account....

i don''t like the idea of being the sole bill-payer, but maybe that''s what has to be done. neatfreak, it sounds like we have a lot in common. thanks for the suggestion...now i need to chill out and not be too angry with him. what''s done is done....

Neither did my mom, but she has been the sole bill payer for 24 years now and it works well. My FI doesn''t really "get" money either, even though he is also smart and organized. We do split the bills, but I am the one keeping track of everything. For us, we have seperate checking accounts and a mutual savings. It has worked very well for us since we know not to touch the savings unless we need to. Which ever one of us is making more at the time puts more into the savings and leaves it at that.

My best advice is accept being the keeper and then find a system that works for you.

 

[erica k]

Date: 4/8/2008 8:30:45 PM
Author: brazen_irish_hussy

Date: 4/8/2008 7:47:44 PM

Author: erica k

thanks for your advice!


i think i might have to try automatic transfer, with the one stipulation that our joint account is hands-off to him! i wasn''t too amused by him transferring joint account money into his personal account....


i don''t like the idea of being the sole bill-payer, but maybe that''s what has to be done. neatfreak, it sounds like we have a lot in common. thanks for the suggestion...now i need to chill out and not be too angry with him. what''s done is done....

Neither did my mom, but she has been the sole bill payer for 24 years now and it works well. My FI doesn''t really ''get'' money either, even though he is also smart and organized. We do split the bills, but I am the one keeping track of everything. For us, we have seperate checking accounts and a mutual savings. It has worked very well for us since we know not to touch the savings unless we need to. Which ever one of us is making more at the time puts more into the savings and leaves it at that.


My best advice is accept being the keeper and then find a system that works for you.

it''s so strange because my dad is the one who takes care of the finances for my parents. he used to give my mom a generous cash allowance for groceries. anything she didn''t spend was hers to keep (savings or shopping). just recently she decided to get a debit card, which has, ahem, led to more shopping and less saving. either way, he controls the money, pays all the bills, and she has very little understanding of their finances. granted, she hasn''t worked since i was 12, either, so it''s a different situation than mine.

i think we''ll keep some of the bills separate, since he already has the automatic bill-pay set up for our utilities, but it would be a good idea to set up a mutual savings so that i don''t fritter away my extra money.

i am feeling a bit better thinking about it for a few hours. i''m still mightily annoyed, mainly because i didn''t realize how irresponsible he would be about money. he always struck me as a serious, detail-oriented person. six years later, and i''m still learning new things about us as a couple.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Transferring joint money would irk me too.

My feeling is that you should do whatever works the best and causes you the least stress. I''ve definitely found the ours vs. mine, joint vs. separate accounts thing to be an ever changing balance for us.

Upon first being married, I was resentful and confused because I went from being completely solvent and having money to do what I wanted to having no extra money even though our housing/living costs should have gone down. I still don''t understand how my husband makes money disappear, but I have accepted it as a fact of life. And since I paid the bills, I was the only one who noticed, and I constantly paid for groceries, etc. out of my spending money. That''s another problem -- we were giving ourselves too much spending money and not enough bill money.

Then, luckily, DH started making a lot more money, so I stopped being stressed about that. There were a couple questionable actions like your husband''s transfer, but overall I stopped caring as long as there was money to pay the bills. Finally I stopped caring about having my own spending money. No, I don''t understand how my husband spends $500 a month, but that''s just how it is. So about six months ago I just stopped taking my $500. I spend, like, $14 a month on my own. My Christmas and birthday money from my parents (and $20 from DH''s cute grandmother) cover going out with friends and buying new clothes. I know, it''s like I''m still a teenager. DH still spends $500 on who knows what (well, ok, it involves golf and cycling and some confusing back and forth with business expenses and reimbursements) a month. I know it''s not fair, but rarely are two people equally spendthrift or frugal. I even said DH should just do away with his $500 and we''ll pay for everything jointly, but he feels that it helps rein him in (although the reality is it might make him spend more . . . like seriously, without diamonds as an option I would be hard pressed to spend that much).

What did help recently was to get DH to do the bills. Our desktop computer got bogged down by Java Updates (at least, deleting them made it go much, much faster), and it took me 45 minutes to pay the bills. So it was: wait for page to load, wait some more, wait some more, feel blood pressure rise looking at bill, write bill on list, click pay bill, wait for page to load, wait for page to load . . . So I cleaned up the computer and told DH we had to pay the bills together because even though they were all joint purchases I would instinctively blame the person not in the room. So I figured doing it together would cause less stress. But DH went and did it when I was busy elsewhere and said that since I alone knew the state of our finances for years, he''s ok with being the person now (and yes, he reported, it is quite stressful). Of course, I need to bug him a little to make sure it gets done, but I''d rather do that than have my blood pressure rise. Since his pay is commission based, it makes more sense for him to pay the bills since I was always having to ask how much he would get that month (he''s a financial advisor, which is funny considering his money suckage abilities, but it''s more about strategy and expertise than accounting).

Since I know DH can only spend $500 a month, I''m happy. Since I know I can buy clothes or go out when I want to and I''ll still probably spend less than $500 a month, thus saving us money I could hypothetically be hoarding, I''m happy. Since we pay the Merry Maids to clean our house and I don''t have to, I''m happy. Since I''ve accepted my husband''s magical ability to make money disappear and he no longer does shifty things to hide when he''s not going to be able to pay a bill, I''m happy. I figure it''s that or resentment which would either be resolved by me making both my husband and me incredibly unhappy or divorce.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Erica, I can relate to your situation. My DH is very bad with money, but he is very good at doing what I tell him!

So all our money goes into one account, and then we get play money automatically transferred into our personal accounts twice a month. And I do the budgeting and tell DH how it works so he knows. So I guess I am the keeper. But when I think about it, he is the keeper of other things: he is the one who rubs my feet, he keeps me happy, and content, and he listens to me and supports me emotionally. He also organizes a lot of social stuff for the two of us, and he does most of the annoying dog care. So I figure it is a fair trade. He jokes that I am his "life coach" and I think he is the "heart" of our relationship.

If your skills are organizational (or at least you are more skilled than he is) then take this as your role in the relationship and then let him take another role. As long as you feel like your contributions are fair then you will both feel happy and lucky to have someone to look after you. Of course, I don''t mean that things need to be objectively fair, but just that you perceive fairness... someone else might not think that nightly foot rubs, daily "i love yous" and constant compliments are equal to handling all the money, but it seems fair to me, and that''s all that really matters!

DD

 

[erica k]

phoenixgirl-

i don''t know if i can do the resignation/acceptance thing, but something has to give way in this relationship. i don''t want to become bitter and resentful, although i feel like i''m already halfway there! right now i''m drowning my sorrows in a bowl of rice pudding.

just reading your story made me so annoyed. my husband is frugal, but can''t pay the bills on time. i''m a spendthrift, but i keep meticulous track of my finances. i''m obviously the one who love number-crunching and budget spreadsheets, i just wish my husband would take responsibility for the very few tasks that he agreed to do. i guess i should lower my expectations and allow my control-freak self to take over. which is exactly what i didn''t want to happen.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/8/2008 11:16:48 PM
Author: erica k
phoenixgirl-


i don't know if i can do the resignation/acceptance thing, but something has to give way in this relationship. i don't want to become bitter and resentful, although i feel like i'm already halfway there! right now i'm drowning my sorrows in a bowl of rice pudding.

just reading your story made me so annoyed. my husband is frugal, but can't pay the bills on time. i'm a spendthrift, but i keep meticulous track of my finances. i'm obviously the one who love number-crunching and budget spreadsheets, i just wish my husband would take responsibility for the very few tasks that he agreed to do. i guess i should lower my expectations and allow my control-freak self to take over. which is exactly what i didn't want to happen.

You DO sound just like us. Except my DH isn't as frugal as yours...

BUT, the thing that I did to make this relationship work well was that I took over the finances because it made me MORE stressed to have him do it. BUT, and there is always a BUT, I HATE the dishes. I didn't lower my expectations of him by taking over the finances, I simply MOVED my expectations! So I gave him that as a job. It's much easier for him to do the dishes than the finances because the dishes are tangible. They are in the sink, and he can't make his precious coffee if the sink is too full. So it's easy for him to SEE that something needs to be done. So that is my key to happiness.

See if you can find something else, some other dreaded job, that doesn't stress you out as much as your finances, to give your DH to do. It'll make things a lot smoother if you both do what you're good at. Focus on your strengths.

 

[cara]

Yeah, you will be happier if you take this task over. What''s the fun of marriage if you have to split all the tasks exactly down the middle? Sounds like you will be happier and he will be happier if you are in charge of bill paying, and you stick him with dishes or oil changes or laundry or whatever task he is better at/he woln''t annoy you by messing up.

In this day and age, no adult should be entirely ignorant of how to pay their bills or where their money is, but your husband doesn''t have to be in charge of day to day bill paying. You also might consider overdraft protection to reduce the fees if that is a problem - it is relatively inexpensive at my bank (ie. annual fee much less than one overdraft fee.)

I also didn''t really follow what was going on with the personal/joint accounts entirely. Some people have all those accounts cause it helps them split the money into appropriate piles but it might just be making you all crazy moving money around. You might want to think about how to simplify things and if all these accounts are helping or confusing things.

 

[snowflakeluvr]

hi erica,
sorry for your woes. phoenixgirl said something like do what works best for you and causes the least amount of stress. i agree so much.
dh and i have been married 21 years. when we married, he did all the bills-we always shared our money in one account jointly but we were growing a healthy savings, too. then kids came along, dh began grad school, etc etc. so we certainly didn''t save like before(other than retirement) when he took his last position 14years ago, we had to go to once a month paychecks(seems like always killer at the tail end of the month!) but in a way, much easier to "budget" the month of overhead expenses, such as mortgage, utilities etc.
when we were in couple''s therapy, the therapist recommended dh get more involved with the finances-the very first month, he did NOT sit down and pay those bills. so i did and continue to do so. our checkbook sits in a kitchen drawer-he always has access to it, but chooses to not confront our financial situation. we just suffered through 3 devastating years of major medical expenses-we were slowly sinking due to many medical bills plus our large family(i''m a sahm btw)...my husband NEVER really grasped the enormity of our debts until i confronted him with them. we are blessed that he has a very stable career, much opportunity for advancement and more income, but he really did not/does not want to suffer the daily strain of paying for cell phones, diapers, etc.. it''s ironic because dh has a 100million dollar budget at work! and can''t manage to help me economize on groceries, etc...
we have always paid our bills first(before extraneous spending) and we have excellent credit scores. i was never willing to risk our mortgage(or other bills) being unpaid or late due to dh''s absence(he travels a lot), his forgetfulness or his lack of interest in it. i am very organized about our expenses and know exactly where every penny goes(dh does not) that said, when dh gets a bonus, he''s the first to want a vacation, buy me some jewelry, etc, very very generous as long as bills are paid first. he is not the least bit selfish about his earnings and i am grateful!
we are older and more mature than you(well maybe not

so if you need to "take charge" to have fiscal peace, then do so. and now, when we have some extra $$$ i feel no guilt treating the kids out to dinner or buying myself a cute something. it''s so personal and individual. i realize we are somewhat "old school" than younger couples, with dual incomes who share the fiscal responsiblities differently than we do, but just find what works for you and him, and that will give you peace and satisfaction. good luck!

 

[cellososweet]

oh man have i had my share of this particular argument. i remember wanting to bite my husbands head off every single month! it was terrible! he would "forget" to pay a bill, get a late charge, whine about, i''d get irritated, repeat. It was just really really bad. What we did is made an excel spreadsheet with the due dates and amounts of the bils and then a column for the date it was paid and the confirmation number (or check number for rent). We made the first half of the month''s bills in red and the second half in blue. When he gets paid on the 5th, he pays the red bills. When he gets paid on the 20th, he pays the blue bills. It works for us. At the end of the month, I transfer over my rent for the next month, plus half of the household bills. It was the colors that really worked for him. Made it seem more managable. Also, what helped is me backing off. It was easy for me just to say "screw it, i''ll pay it!" but that didn''t teach him to be responsible. Working together to make it easy for everyone and me not going batsh*t ballistic every time he messed up has made it a breeze. Good luck

 

[Rhea]

We don't have quite the same set up as you. Our money goes into our joint account first and then is automatically transferred to our individual accounts. We have very little individual money as we need most of our money to pay living expenses and decided that anything left over should go to joint savings.

So, paychecks into joint, small amount of money into individual, all bills paid automatically by direct debit or standing order (except the one joint credit card because it varies month to month). Literally once a month I log onto our joint account and set up the money to pay the credit card and change the automatic savings rate if necessary. He does what he wants with his individual account. I only have to think about our joint account once a month to make sure that everything cleared okay and set up the credit card payment. Done and dusted.

This means that I do handle the joint finances. I couldn't tell you the last time he logged on to our joint checking account or joint savings. I do know he checks the credit card sometimes because the last date logged in always pops up when you log in. But if handling the finances means I log on once a month to check our joint accounts I can handle that!

I hate the idea that I control the money and if you look at who does what with the bills, I do control the money. But it's important to me that neither he nor I feel as though I control the money. It actually runs very smoothly, no questions asked about who paid what (the computer did!) and neither of us "plays" in the joint money. We get individual money for that.

 

[erica k]

thanks for everyone''s advice and comments. i am feeling better about the financial situation. i guess the most shocking thing for me is that my husband was treating the joint account like his personal account. i asked him why he used the joint account for transferring money from his savings to his checking, and he said he didn''t know.

as for transferring my expectations or perceiving fairness in the relationship, unfortunately things have devolved to the point that i''m not sure it''s possible right now. we''ve already tried splitting the chores. this is what we agreed to do: he sweeps, cleans out the litter every other day, takes down the trash and recycling, and does his own laundry. dishes are supposed to be done every other day, too.

the reality is: he sweeps once a week (we have two cats!), cleans the litter two days after i do, leaves his clean laundry in the bag on the floor for weeks (hates to fold), and waits until the trash and recycling are overflowing. i clean the kitchen and bathroom once a week, do regular wipedowns in between, and a major scrubfest once a month. the dishes? well, let''s just say we''re at a stalemate about dishes...

he''ll buy me flowers when i ask repeatedly, and has never surprised me with a gift, even though i told him it would be great if he did. he goes to school at 9 and returns at 10pm. he never calls to let me know what he''s doing that day. he works on studio stuff 7 days a week. i''m basically an architecture school widow.

until he started school (1.5 years ago), he was really attentive, tidy, responsible, and sweet. he used to cook amazing meals (i''m a terrible cook). we went on lovely weekend trips, concerts, museums, etc. now he''s consumed by work. he says that he''ll make it up to me in 2.5 years when we both finish school and have a larger income. (architects never seem to have much time, especially in the first few years out of school)

so basically i feel like he''s dropped the ball on pretty much everything he can. i''m trying to deal with the lack of help around the house and general decline in quality of life. i knew what i was signing up for. architecture school is really tough, although getting a PhD and teaching part-time isn''t easy, either! but the lack of financial responsibility is something i really cannot accept. so i guess i''ll take that first step and make sure the finances are dealt with.

he seems so reasonable and sweet when i tell him my concerns, but then he always seems to forget. i guess all i can expect right now are baby steps in the right direction, and a little more assertiveness (and less nagging) on my side. otherwise, i''m going to make myself sick with stress.

i''m so glad that i''m not alone. i can''t really talk to my friends because i''m the only married one of the group. i really do appreciate everyone''s help!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/9/2008 8:12:55 AM
Author: erica k
thanks for everyone''s advice and comments. i am feeling better about the financial situation. i guess the most shocking thing for me is that my husband was treating the joint account like his personal account. i asked him why he used the joint account for transferring money from his savings to his checking, and he said he didn''t know.

as for transferring my expectations or perceiving fairness in the relationship, unfortunately things have devolved to the point that i''m not sure it''s possible right now. we''ve already tried splitting the chores. this is what we agreed to do: he sweeps, cleans out the litter every other day, takes down the trash and recycling, and does his own laundry. dishes are supposed to be done every other day, too.

the reality is: he sweeps once a week (we have two cats!), cleans the litter two days after i do, leaves his clean laundry in the bag on the floor for weeks (hates to fold), and waits until the trash and recycling are overflowing. i clean the kitchen and bathroom once a week, do regular wipedowns in between, and a major scrubfest once a month. the dishes? well, let''s just say we''re at a stalemate about dishes...

he''ll buy me flowers when i ask repeatedly, and has never surprised me with a gift, even though i told him it would be great if he did. he goes to school at 9 and returns at 10pm. he never calls to let me know what he''s doing that day. he works on studio stuff 7 days a week. i''m basically an architecture school widow.

until he started school (1.5 years ago), he was really attentive, tidy, responsible, and sweet. he used to cook amazing meals (i''m a terrible cook). we went on lovely weekend trips, concerts, museums, etc. now he''s consumed by work. he says that he''ll make it up to me in 2.5 years when we both finish school and have a larger income. (architects never seem to have much time, especially in the first few years out of school)

so basically i feel like he''s dropped the ball on pretty much everything he can. i''m trying to deal with the lack of help around the house and general decline in quality of life. i knew what i was signing up for. architecture school is really tough, although getting a PhD and teaching part-time isn''t easy, either! but the lack of financial responsibility is something i really cannot accept. so i guess i''ll take that first step and make sure the finances are dealt with.

he seems so reasonable and sweet when i tell him my concerns, but then he always seems to forget. i guess all i can expect right now are baby steps in the right direction, and a little more assertiveness (and less nagging) on my side. otherwise, i''m going to make myself sick with stress.

i''m so glad that i''m not alone. i can''t really talk to my friends because i''m the only married one of the group. i really do appreciate everyone''s help!

Oh Erica, I''m so sorry you are going through this tough time! It sounds like what you said, above highlighted, is the best course of action for now. I wonder if there are little things that you and he can do together to maintiain your connection even though this is such a tough time for you both? Can you meet him for lunch, or plan a date once a week, or other little things that don''t take too much mental energy but still allow you to have together time? School will end one day, but in the meantime, maybe there are small things you can do to help tide you over?

DD

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/8/2008 11:32:40 PM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 4/8/2008 11:16:48 PM
Author: erica k
phoenixgirl-


i don''t know if i can do the resignation/acceptance thing, but something has to give way in this relationship. i don''t want to become bitter and resentful, although i feel like i''m already halfway there! right now i''m drowning my sorrows in a bowl of rice pudding.

just reading your story made me so annoyed. my husband is frugal, but can''t pay the bills on time. i''m a spendthrift, but i keep meticulous track of my finances. i''m obviously the one who love number-crunching and budget spreadsheets, i just wish my husband would take responsibility for the very few tasks that he agreed to do. i guess i should lower my expectations and allow my control-freak self to take over. which is exactly what i didn''t want to happen.

You DO sound just like us. Except my DH isn''t as frugal as yours...

BUT, the thing that I did to make this relationship work well was that I took over the finances because it made me MORE stressed to have him do it. BUT, and there is always a BUT, I HATE the dishes. I didn''t lower my expectations of him by taking over the finances, I simply MOVED my expectations! So I gave him that as a job. It''s much easier for him to do the dishes than the finances because the dishes are tangible. They are in the sink, and he can''t make his precious coffee if the sink is too full. So it''s easy for him to SEE that something needs to be done. So that is my key to happiness.

See if you can find something else, some other dreaded job, that doesn''t stress you out as much as your finances, to give your DH to do. It''ll make things a lot smoother if you both do what you''re good at. Focus on your strengths.

My hubby is also solely responsible for the dishes. He doesn''t do them everyday, but at least I never have to do them.

DD

 

[Pandora II]

FI and I will be maintaining our current system after we are married.

I pay him a lump-sum every month to his account and the rest is mine. What I transfer to him is my half of the mortgage, bills etc plus $500 which goes towards extra expenses as needed (all totted up in one of his spreadsheets).

He then pays all the bills, the mortgage, magazine subscriptions, insurance via direct debit etc etc

We are both fiscally responsible, but whereas he has a mega spreadsheet with everything entered into it so he can track his money, I''m more of a scan the creditcard bill and make sure my current account and savings look healthy kind of person (otherwise known as ''how much bling can I afford this month'')

I don''t see anything wrong in having separate accounts, especially if one of you is better at finances than the other. I''m the super-detail orientated one, but he likes doing money things more than I do.

We definitely won''t be having a joint account - I can only imagine the arguments it could cause!

 

[erica k]

Thanks to everyone for their great suggestions. i think my husband and i will need to have a long talk about what we should do and make sure there aren''t too many ambiguities.

 

[cara]

Date: 4/9/2008 8:12:55 AM
Author: erica k
thanks for everyone''s advice and comments. i am feeling better about the financial situation. i guess the most shocking thing for me is that my husband was treating the joint account like his personal account. i asked him why he used the joint account for transferring money from his savings to his checking, and he said he didn''t know.


as for transferring my expectations or perceiving fairness in the relationship, unfortunately things have devolved to the point that i''m not sure it''s possible right now. we''ve already tried splitting the chores. this is what we agreed to do: he sweeps, cleans out the litter every other day, takes down the trash and recycling, and does his own laundry. dishes are supposed to be done every other day, too.


the reality is: he sweeps once a week (we have two cats!), cleans the litter two days after i do, leaves his clean laundry in the bag on the floor for weeks (hates to fold), and waits until the trash and recycling are overflowing. i clean the kitchen and bathroom once a week, do regular wipedowns in between, and a major scrubfest once a month. the dishes? well, let''s just say we''re at a stalemate about dishes...

he''ll buy me flowers when i ask repeatedly, and has never surprised me with a gift, even though i told him it would be great if he did. he goes to school at 9 and returns at 10pm. he never calls to let me know what he''s doing that day. he works on studio stuff 7 days a week. i''m basically an architecture school widow.

until he started school (1.5 years ago), he was really attentive, tidy, responsible, and sweet. he used to cook amazing meals (i''m a terrible cook). we went on lovely weekend trips, concerts, museums, etc. now he''s consumed by work. he says that he''ll make it up to me in 2.5 years when we both finish school and have a larger income. (architects never seem to have much time, especially in the first few years out of school)


so basically i feel like he''s dropped the ball on pretty much everything he can. i''m trying to deal with the lack of help around the house and general decline in quality of life. i knew what i was signing up for. architecture school is really tough, although getting a PhD and teaching part-time isn''t easy, either! but the lack of financial responsibility is something i really cannot accept. so i guess i''ll take that first step and make sure the finances are dealt with.


he seems so reasonable and sweet when i tell him my concerns, but then he always seems to forget. i guess all i can expect right now are baby steps in the right direction, and a little more assertiveness (and less nagging) on my side. otherwise, i''m going to make myself sick with stress.


i''m so glad that i''m not alone. i can''t really talk to my friends because i''m the only married one of the group. i really do appreciate everyone''s help!

Wow, it sounds like the missed bill is kind of the last straw here. Even if you take over the finances, I would address some of the resentment about his overall level of attention to maintaining a life with you. Yes, he is in a very difficult program and is in total survival mode, and you did agree to his program however many years ago, but that doesn''t mean that you have to accept the current situation, or that the current situation is really fair to you or good for your relationship.

He needs to pull his share. Maybe his share of housework is only 25% given his schedule, maybe his share is less certain weeks than others, but just dumping it all on you isn''t cool.

I say this as someone who just survived my husband''s medical residency. Only two years, and with lighter months and harder months, and I can''t imagine being an architecture widow 7 days a week for four years. At least what you describe doesn''t seem fair. I don''t care how tough or cutthroat or what the program, he needs a day off here and there to talk to you and maintain his marriage and his life.

I definitely covered a lot of the housework at times, and I took over most of the bills because I didn''t want to worry about them, but when I grew to resent whatever I was putting in I tried to pull back, even if it wasn''t the best for our finances or the state of the house or his life balance. There were times we ate out when we should have eaten in but I was sick of cooking and cleaning. There were times we spent his only day off doing laundry and scrubbing. There were times I dragged him out to parties on two hours sleep because I was sick of staying home alone. There were times I would be off doing fun things without him when he managed to get out of the hospital early because I was sick of waiting around to see if he would be available.

Maybe it would be worth it to hire a maid once and a while. Maybe his laundry needs to be shoved in a closet so you don''t see it. Maybe eating more takeout would help by lessening the cooking and dishes.

I''m not saying that my solutions are the right ones for you two, but I don''t think maintaining your current pattern and growing resentment for the remainder of schooling is a good plan. Resentment on this stuff only festers, and the patterns get established. Now my husband has more time available, but I still find myself taking more responsibility for getting housework tasks done, when I should be thinking about my work. And I can see how easily it could get worse when he goes back on a difficult schedule or we throw kids into the mix. So we might not have a perfect system, but its been workable so far, and mostly I still like him enough to WANT to shoulder some of the burden when I can help and he is stretched. That seems pretty important.

 

[snowflakeluvr]

erica k,
and may i add that i don''t think marriage is really EVER 50/50. it just ain''t! my dh and i agreed to grad school when i was pg with #2(#1 was still a baby) little did i know that #2 child would be a very colicky, crybaby, miserable non-sleeper for FOUR years...dh always said to me" but we agree on grad school before we had kids" ok then...i have learned in my 21 years to make many,many concessions. I have prayed, eaten, shopped, talked, among other things to maintain sanity while dh pursued his career-i try to be thankful as dh''s work ethic and drive is paying off in a big way currently. please hang in there-have some outlets for YOU,whether it be a hobby, the gym, girlfriends or whatever. i have lots of kids, of course, and they generally consume my time and energy but i am also learning to think of me first in small ways and i am much happier. good luck sweetie! i feel for you, i really do! ps and buy diamonds of course when you are able

 

[erica k]

cara
i think you''ve hit it on the nail.

i''ve been in my phD program for 5 years now. i am teaching 57 undergrads right now in a survey course of 270 (grading takes forever). supposedly i am writing at least one, if not two chapters, by september. most of my research has been completed, but writing isn''t very easy. i am also doing the illustration copyright work for two professors and their respective book projects. all of this is to make extra money and finish my degree.

but you know, i also remember to buy toilet paper and toothpaste. i feel like supermom, and i don''t even have children!

i definitely feel like my work has suffered since my husband started architecture school. he is reluctant to skimp on his studies, whereas i am more concerned with running a relatively tidy and well-fed household. so he skips meals, forgets to buy groceries, and doesn''t care a hoot if the bathtub is clogged. i call the plumber, buy the veggies, and make time for errands. once after a huge fight, he drove to target for the first time ever by himself and bought paper towels. it seemed like a victory, but it was also really sad.

i know it isn''t about a 50/50 division , but right now i''m having a hard time knowing exactly what he''s bringing to the table. there are promises of vacations and time together, but often we simply end up going to his classmates homes for dinner and drinks. this might sound nice in theory, but architecture school is like one big clique. the same 40 people spend 12 hours a day together. i try to be friendly, but i don''t ''get'' their stories or gossip news. most of my classmates have moved away to finish their dissertations. and many of my remaining friends have become more distant ever since i got married. i keep telling them to invite me to drinks, etc, but they rarely do. they''re perfectly nice when i see them, but for some reason, maybe because they''re still single, i don''t seem to fit into their plans anymore.

i guess i should immerse myself in my work, take those baby plans off the back burner and back into the freezer, deal with the finances, and try to be less bitter. we''ve had really serious conversations where i tell him that i''m losing respect for him. he''ll be attentive for a week or so, and then it''s back to the status quo. i must be doing something wrong.

everyone''s been super nice and i''ve appreciated your thoughtful comments. i''m no saint, that''s for sure! i can be really crabby and defensive, plus, he says that i yell too much, which causes him to shut down. i am thinking of suggesting couples therapy. our school offers it specifically for students who are trying to juggle academics and personal life. i have a lot to think about. i''m trying my best not to be too angry or negative about the past two years. our anniversary is coming up in two months, and that''s weighing heavily on my mind, too.

 

[Mara]

i agree with the others that have suggested you take over the bills entirely. we have a joint account but it's mostly for savings things or for when one of us transfers money into it to pay a bill that's out of cycle or something. otherwise, we each pay our own bills (cc's, cell phone, car payments), and then i pay all the household items. and we split the mortgage with a ratio to income calc that also takes into account me paying the household items. we really haven't 'come together' with our finances yet (4 years of marriage) but this is working for us so we figure if it ain't broke...we are both also pretty good about paying our own bills and knowing what is ours to pay and when. i have auto payments for all the household stuff (i am bad with memory, if i did not have this it'd be horrible!)...and i only write a check for the maid that comes 2x a month and for things like ring or car insurance that are once a year or once every 6 months.

if one of us was not responsible then the other would def have to take over. if both of your credit scores and history are going to be on the line, then i would def move fwd and take it over for him. it sucks that he is not really all that responsible about it...but it's not your job to baby him or mother him. if you can get it done, then just do it. and yes it would be nice if he was more like you, but he's not. and he may never be. as you already know, marriage is about compromise and sometimes in these partnerships, one person has more of a 'strength' for something than the other. i don't think it's a huge deal for you to pick up his slack in this arena, assuming that it isn't a pattern and he does this with EVERYTHING because that would get irritating. but like for us...i am more detailed and a planner so i handle all of our trips and planning anything like dinners or events with friends, etc...and he is more of a methodical reminder person so he will take my jury duty notice and put it with his important papers and review it once every 2 weeks and then remind me when it's time to go to jury duty. he knows otherwise i'd put it in my pile of papers and who knows when it could be seen again!!

anyway, i hear your frustration, but i just saw take the bull by the horns and move it all over to yourself for management. also you mention that he is existing on student loans right now, that also is a little worrisome considering he's not being super responsible with $$. if you take over the managemetn entirely, dole him out an allowance, which he may not love but as the earner, i think that you could say...look you keep overdrafting, this is losing us money and you aren't making any money right now, so let me handle it and you won't have to worrya bout it. obviously in a nicer, wifely way haha. but it would bug me if he was overdrafting AND he wasn't bringing any $$ in. anyway good luck!

 

[neatfreak]

Awww Erica, I sympathize with running the household and trying to finish a degree while hubby mostly just finishes a degree. Hugs to you! I'd be your friend at school...you don't happen to be at school in Wisconsin though I bet huh?

 

[ljmorgan]

Hey Erica, I hear your frustration! It sounds like from your posts you have an amazing husband who is a bit absent minded when it comes to paying bills -- my suggestion -- take them over. Honestly it is very easy. Set everything up to be automatically paid, money transferred from his account, and don''t give it another thought.

I think married finances are so interesting because there are so many ways to do it. I am especially fascinated by couples who have their money almost totally separate. My husband and I have been married for a bit over a year and totally merged our finances. We have a joint account that our paychecks are deposited into that bills are paid from automatically, and money is automatically moved twice a month to our joint "spending" account for things like groceries, gas, and fun purchases. We just treat our paychecks as one huge pot. We do both have our individual 401(k)s and Roth IRA''s though.

 

[swingirl]

All our money goes into one pot, I take care of paying everything. Automatic payments for big things, automatic payments set up for minimums due. I can''t imagine the extra effort it takes to have 2 people try to coordinate bill paying every month. And if you are the responsible one you''ll be loosing sleep wondering if this bill has been paid or that check is going to bounce. It''s one of those "married" jobs that fall in the lap of the person that does it best. And that sounds like you.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I haven''t had time to read through all the posts, but I think it is always best for one person to handle paying all the bills. The amount that needs to come from his check needs to be automatically transferred to the jpint account the day his check is deposited. My husband is very responsible, but because he works much longer hours than I do (plus he has budgets to deal with at work), I have always handled the finances. I also think you both need to contribute to an emergency savings and ROTH IRAs besides your work 401k if you can.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/9/2008 3:47:47 PM
Author: erica k
cara
i think you''ve hit it on the nail.

i''ve been in my phD program for 5 years now. i am teaching 57 undergrads right now in a survey course of 270 (grading takes forever). supposedly i am writing at least one, if not two chapters, by september. most of my research has been completed, but writing isn''t very easy. i am also doing the illustration copyright work for two professors and their respective book projects. all of this is to make extra money and finish my degree.

but you know, i also remember to buy toilet paper and toothpaste. i feel like supermom, and i don''t even have children!

i definitely feel like my work has suffered since my husband started architecture school. he is reluctant to skimp on his studies, whereas i am more concerned with running a relatively tidy and well-fed household. so he skips meals, forgets to buy groceries, and doesn''t care a hoot if the bathtub is clogged. i call the plumber, buy the veggies, and make time for errands. once after a huge fight, he drove to target for the first time ever by himself and bought paper towels. it seemed like a victory, but it was also really sad.

i know it isn''t about a 50/50 division , but right now i''m having a hard time knowing exactly what he''s bringing to the table. there are promises of vacations and time together, but often we simply end up going to his classmates homes for dinner and drinks. this might sound nice in theory, but architecture school is like one big clique. the same 40 people spend 12 hours a day together. i try to be friendly, but i don''t ''get'' their stories or gossip news. most of my classmates have moved away to finish their dissertations. and many of my remaining friends have become more distant ever since i got married. i keep telling them to invite me to drinks, etc, but they rarely do. they''re perfectly nice when i see them, but for some reason, maybe because they''re still single, i don''t seem to fit into their plans anymore.

i guess i should immerse myself in my work, take those baby plans off the back burner and back into the freezer, deal with the finances, and try to be less bitter. we''ve had really serious conversations where i tell him that i''m losing respect for him. he''ll be attentive for a week or so, and then it''s back to the status quo. i must be doing something wrong.

everyone''s been super nice and i''ve appreciated your thoughtful comments. i''m no saint, that''s for sure! i can be really crabby and defensive, plus, he says that i yell too much, which causes him to shut down. i am thinking of suggesting couples therapy. our school offers it specifically for students who are trying to juggle academics and personal life. i have a lot to think about. i''m trying my best not to be too angry or negative about the past two years. our anniversary is coming up in two months, and that''s weighing heavily on my mind, too.

I would be your friend in school too!

I know how you feel about the stresses of grad school, I just finished the old PhD last year and most of my friends are graduating this year... it is such a hard transition in so many ways, and it really doesn''t help when you are feeling stressed in your relationship too. I think seeking counselling would be a great idea. If nothing else, it will give you a place to talk, and listen, and clarify your feelings.

Hang in there, and keep us posted... and have a bubble bath! While eating chocolate! And looking at your diamonds!

That should help you feel more relaxed for at least a half hour, right?

DD

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 4/9/2008 4:52:36 PM
Author: *Lindsey*
Hey Erica, I hear your frustration! It sounds like from your posts you have an amazing husband who is a bit absent minded when it comes to paying bills -- my suggestion -- take them over. Honestly it is very easy. Set everything up to be automatically paid, money transferred from his account, and don''t give it another thought.

I think married finances are so interesting because there are so many ways to do it. I am especially fascinated by couples who have their money almost totally separate. My husband and I have been married for a bit over a year and totally merged our finances. We have a joint account that our paychecks are deposited into that bills are paid from automatically, and money is automatically moved twice a month to our joint ''spending'' account for things like groceries, gas, and fun purchases. We just treat our paychecks as one huge pot. We do both have our individual 401(k)s and Roth IRA''s though.

I wonder if it is an age thing? I don''t mean this in a patronising way or anything.

At 36, I''m far too used to having MY salary and MY money to want to merge things. Obviously when we have kids, proportions will change - at the moment we go 50/50 on everything.

My mother never worked and used to have to ask my dad for money. She never spent anything on herself as she''d feel it was his money - I hated seeing that and made him set her up her own account.

FI feels the same. Anyhow, if it ain''t broke...

 

[ljmorgan]

Date: 4/9/2008 6:17:11 PM
Author: Pandora II

I wonder if it is an age thing? I don''t mean this in a patronising way or anything.


At 36, I''m far too used to having MY salary and MY money to want to merge things. Obviously when we have kids, proportions will change - at the moment we go 50/50 on everything.


My mother never worked and used to have to ask my dad for money. She never spent anything on herself as she''d feel it was his money - I hated seeing that and made him set her up her own account.


FI feels the same. Anyhow, if it ain''t broke...

The age thing is totally possible. I met my husband when I was 18... we merged our finances when we moved in together and got engaged, right before we got married (I don''t advocate merging finances before marriage for legal reasons, even though we did.) The husband and I are 25/26 now, and have just always shared finances. Neither of us gets an "allowance" and since we''ve been together most of the time we''ve had paychecks, I think as you said, we never got used to having our own. I think the most important thing for couples when choosing how to manage their finances is how they each deal with money -- I think if people like to manage their money very differently, merging finances would be more trouble than it''s worth!

The husband and I are on the same page, and both look after the bills, our investment accounts, and we both keep track of our overall spending on mint.com (love it!) I think that no matter how couples choose to manage their finances, they should both be involved -- I disagree that one person should handle everything totally -- I think it''s fine for one person to pay the bills, but I think both people need to be aware how much the bills add up to, how much they''re spending on a monthly basis, what sort of investments they have, etc. I think as long as both people know what''s going on, it doesn''t matter if you keep your finances separate or merged!