Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being set

[danny_italia]

Hey everyone,

So you guys recommended Jeweller's mutual for Insurance on my soon to be fiancée's new ring and after doing some research, they really do look like the best option.

My diamond is currently with my jeweller and I told them to wait until I have it insured before doing any work. On their website they state the following:

Do you cover loose stones?
Yes, your Perfect Circle™ Jewelry Insurance policy covers loose stones while they are being set into a piece of jewelry. In that case, we would need the information about the stone that is being set as well as the mounting information on the jewelry item that the stone is being set into prior to the item being set. For more information, please call toll-free 888-884-2424.

I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with what kind of documents they need. Unfortunately I tried phoning them but I'm under the impression they do not have any canadian office and are closed for the holidays.

I'm wondering if the following would suffice:
- Appraisal of the loose stone
- Appraisal of the loose setting
* Possibly a note from the jeweller stating that Diamond (list GIA #) will be set in the setting.

I think that should be more then enough but if anyone could chime in that would be great!

Thanks,
Danny

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Yes, that works fine. The logic from that JM is that it's a piece that requires assembly and as long as they know what it is that they're insuring and there are no other red flags they'll take care of you. The only step I would add is that you should get it appraised and 'updated' after the piece is finished both as a quality control measure and so that the description of what they're insuring is the actual item rather than a list of parts.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Yes, that works fine. The logic from that JM is that it's a piece that requires assembly and as long as they know what it is that they're insuring and there are no other red flags they'll take care of you. The only step I would add is that you should get it appraised and 'updated' after the piece is finished both as a quality control measure and so that the description of what they're insuring is the actual item rather than a list of parts.

Yup exactly my plan! My Jeweller here also provides free appraisals on items purchased through them so it's great for insurance purposes as I can have everything always kept up to date.

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Sounds good, but I do have one caveat. Free appraisals are often worth less than they cost. The problem is threefold.

They skip the quality control step. I don't know your jeweler at all or how their internal QC systems operate but it's not a second opinion if it comes from teh same source as the first.

Second, few people do their best work for free. The standards for the insurance companies are extremely low and weak appraisals benefit them, not you. It's YOU who should be picky. Make sure that the description, photographs, scans et.al. give sufficient detail that the piece can be replaced in the case of a loss. The description section of your appraisal will effectively become the purchase order for the replacement so make sure that it includes what's important to you.

Lastly, the value conclusions are often out of line. The problem here is a conflict of interest with the jeweler because people want to use appraisals as evidence of a bargain. Jewelers are often happy to comply and provide a big number on the bottom line. Insurance companies, on the other hand, are going to charge premiums based on a percentage of the value conclusion while they will do the replacement based on what things actually cost them. They're pretty savvy shoppers. Inflated values raise your premiums without actually raising your coverage. Not surprisingly, the insurers are fine with this. As with the above, it's YOU who should be picky.

 

[danny_italia]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Very good to know!

They are suppose to be one of the top Jeweller's however in my area. Perhaps I can scan the appraisaland i'll just blank out their info to get an idea of what you think.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Very good to know!

They are suppose to be one of the top Jeweller's however in my area. Perhaps I can scan the appraisaland i'll just blank out their info to get an idea of what you think.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

If you don't have concerns about the quality control issues,it's mostly a matter of reading it carefully. Imagine a loss and some replacement company (meaning someone OTHER than your jeweler) is going to read it, look at the pictures etc. and will make a piece using that as the specs. Assuming they successfully do this, is it decently likely that you'll be happy with the results?

The value conclusion should be somewhere in the neighborhood of the transaction price. Wild differences are a red flag.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Very good to know!

They are suppose to be one of the top Jeweller's however in my area. Perhaps I can scan the appraisaland i'll just blank out their info to get an idea of what you think.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Danny

If you don't have concerns about the quality control issues,it's mostly a matter of reading it carefully. Imagine a loss and some replacement company (meaning someone OTHER than your jeweler) is going to read it, look at the pictures etc. and will make a piece using that as the specs. Assuming they successfully do this, is it decently likely that you'll be happy with the results?

The value conclusion should be somewhere in the neighborhood of the transaction price. Wild differences are a red flag.

My experience doing insurance replacements is that they will replace what you lost at the best cost to them. Most of the major companies will tell the replacing jeweler how much markup they can use and require us to send them copies of our invoices to prove our cost basis. (Ironically, that markup is often higher than internet vendors use.)

I, very mildly, disagree with Neil in this scenario, as I think that no one knows better than me what it cost to make my client's piece and what it will cost to replace it. However, it is up to you as a client to be sure of the following if your vendor is doing your appraisal.

1. Is the price in line with what you paid? If not, why not, and is it so stated in the appraisal as required buy best appraisal practices? It is okay if the vendor appraises a diamond or ring that was on consignment for what it would cost to replace it as new, but it should be so stated in the appraisal. If it is a bogus high appraisal to make the vendor look good, start looking, hard, for a real appraiser.

2. If the item is a branded ring or stone, is this stated in the appraisal? If you have a branded diamond then you can only insist that it be replaced with a branded diamond if that is listed in the appraisal, along with any appropriate diamond grading report numbers and the identification of the laboratory doing the report.

If it is a branded ring, is the brand and the style number stated in the appraisal? If not, RUN Forest RUN to find a real appraiser. If you bought a branded ring, it could be double or more what an unbranded replica might cost and you will NOT get the branded ring on your say so when the insurance company can buy one that looks like it for less. I know many jewelers who will not list this information with the mistaken belief that you must come back to them if you want it replaced. Do not let your jeweler abuse you like this!

3. All pertinent information about your item is stated on the appraisal. If this is a one of a kind irreplaceable item that must be stated. All items of information not on the appraisal do NOT EXIST once the item is lost or damaged. PERIOD!

I am sure that Neil can add some additional items to this list. Getting a free appraisal is not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be if you do not check to be sure that the appraisal is properly done.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Wink,
You’re right. I rarely duck a thread like this one.
I don’t have a problem with vendor supplied documentation.
I don’t have a problem with asking an insurer to base a policy on it. It’s up to them to decide if they’ll accept, but they usually do.
The red flags on seller supplied insurance appraisals come in 3 basic categories.

1) They report the ‘facts’ that the seller wants reported, which may or may not be the ones you want/need. Branding for example, especially if it’s a brand is one that’s readily available by the replacement companies may actually be deliberately omitted. Quality topics are routinely omitted. Cut grading, unless it’s superb, is omitted and even then it often is included in a way that’s so ambiguous as to be useless. Photographs and photomicrographs are omitted. Even scans of the lab reports get skipped.

2) Value conclusions often are NOT in line with what was paid, and an explanation is rarely supplied.

3) Few people do their best work for free. Pictures, descriptions, measurements et.al. takes time to prepare and the minimum requirements of the insurance companies are pretty low. I can’t tell you how many one line appraisals I’ve read produced by MAJOR retailers. No pictures. No measurements. ‘Ladies half carat diamond ring - $5000’. How in the world can you expect that to be replaced in a reasonable way? The problem here is that most people read that as ‘$5000’ and the insurance replacement companies tend to read it as ‘The cheapest half carat diamond ring possible’. Easily half of the time involved in my typical appraisal is devoted to explaining to the client what it is and what it isn’t, answering questions they have and similar things outside the task of writing the actual report. I and other professional appraisals do not see it as an afterthought. Jewelers doing it for ‘free’ routinely do.

4) This isn’t really a problem with insurance appraisals but rather with clients who don’t understand that there are different types of appraisals. They take an insurance document as evidence of a bargain. They take it as evidence that the grading is correct. It’s not a second opinion if it comes from the same source as the first, even if they write it on fancy stationary and title it ‘Appraisal’.

The fact that the seller supplied it doesn't mean any of these things apply and, as you point out, they actually usually have better data than someone who is farther from the transaction. They do have their place, and some dealers do an extremely good job, but it's far more common than it should be that they're worth less than they cost.

 

[WinkHPD]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

RE: They do have their place, and some dealers do an extremely good job, but it's far more common than it should be that they're worth less than they cost.

And in that, I am afraid, I am in complete agreement with you.

The legal requirements to be a jeweler, or an appraiser in the jewelry field, are completely non existent. The public thus often views jewelers as just about the same level as used car salesmen. A little above in some polls, a little below in others.

It is shocking that the professionals who do provide good service are hidden under a rock most times while the schlock artists get all the press. Every year we turn in certain national brands who bait and switch and who use pictures of incredible jewelry in their adds at $100 for a pair of half carat earrings while delivering frozen spit when you go in to buy the "sparkly earrings I saw on tv".

Every year our protestations are ignored and the jewelers who are in blatant disregard of FTC rules and regulations laugh all the way to the bank.

One year a government employee to whom a representative of a jewelers group I belong to was talking actually told him that they had important crimes to pursue and were not worried about rich people buying overpriced jewelry.

Oh, and for those who might ask, yes I am talking about Zales and their ilk. Just try to buy some of the gorgeous earrings they show in their ads. I guarantee you they are not available at the price quoted in the ad. Those look entirely different.

With such blatant violation of FTC rules and regulations going unpunished it is no wonder the public holds us in such low esteem.

Sorry, off topic. It is just so frustrating that what you said is so completely true so often, when it really should be the rare exception.

Sigh.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

The legal requirements to be a jeweler, or an appraiser in the jewelry field, are completely non existent. The public thus often views jewelers as just about the same level as used car salesmen. A little above in some polls, a little below in others.

At least around here, used car sales is a licensed and highly regulated business.

 

[JessicaV]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Thank you for your inquiry and for trusting Jewelers Mutual’s Perfect Circle® Jewelry Insurance to protect your precious jewelry and the cherished memories it represents. The information you have on the loose stone and the mounting is absolutely sufficient in obtaining coverage through Jewelers Mutual Insurnance Company.

**edited by moderator. please re-read our trade policies**

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Hi Jessica,
Great to see someone from JM stopping by.
This is what makes Pricescope such a great community!

 

[leeac]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Thank you for your inquiry and for trusting Jewelers Mutual’s Perfect Circle® Jewelry Insurance to protect your precious jewelry and the cherished memories it represents. The information you have on the loose stone and the mounting is absolutely sufficient in obtaining coverage through Jewelers Mutual Insurnance Company.

I was looking through some posts on ring insurance and came across this one and was very surprised. I had emailed Jeweler's Mutual (Perfect Circle) a few weeks back to try to get my loose diamond (GIA certified) insured while it was being set, and here is the response I got on 12/6/12:

Xxxxx,

We do not insure loose stones.

Terese Dxxxxxxxxxx
Account Representative
Perfect Circle™ Insurance by Jewelers Mutual

So what gives, do they insure loose stones or not? I was considering using JM to insure my completed ring, but now I'm having second thoughts if their reps don't even know their own policies.

eta: removed my name and part of the last name of the account rep

 

[MyDiamondSparkles]

Re: Jeweler's Mutual Insurance - Insured while diamond being

Thank you for your inquiry and for trusting Jewelers Mutual’s Perfect Circle® Jewelry Insurance to protect your precious jewelry and the cherished memories it represents. The information you have on the loose stone and the mounting is absolutely sufficient in obtaining coverage through Jewelers Mutual Insurnance Company.

I was looking through some posts on ring insurance and came across this one and was very surprised. I had emailed Jeweler's Mutual (Perfect Circle) a few weeks back to try to get my loose diamond (GIA certified) insured while it was being set, and here is the response I got on 12/6/12:

Xxxxx,

We do not insure loose stones.

Terese Dxxxxxxxxxx
Account Representative
Perfect Circle™ Insurance by Jewelers Mutual

This is exactly the response I received, as well, when trying to insure a loose diamond thru JM Perfect Circle.