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Jeweler Covered GIA Number When Mounting - Remount?

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
We purchased an old European cut diamond and a brand new setting separately. So, we needed to get the diamond mounted. The diamond has a GIA number inscription on the girdle. We took the diamond to a reputable jeweler to have it mounted. We specifically instructed the jeweler to make sure the number was exposed and not covered by a prong.

The jeweler mounted the diamond and seemed to have done a good job. The ring looks great! However, the jeweler covered the GIA number with one of the eight prongs; multiple people couldn't find the number after looking at the diamond under a microscope. The diamond is small and unremarkable enough that I'm fairly certain the diamond wasn't swapped out or something fishy like that----I think they just screwed up and covered the number. The setting is made of 14K white gold and, as I said above, was brand new when I brought it in.

The question, then, is should I have them remount the diamond or should I leave it as it is? Would the prongs be significantly weakened by having the diamond remounted or is this a small or nonexistent concern? On the other hand, is it important that the number be exposed in case the ring was stolen or lost someday? Assume the remounting would be free. I'm having trouble deciding between the competing interests here, probably in part because it's a little frustrating to encounter this issue after we specifically warned them not to do this.

Thanks for your help.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,196
Eight prongs?
Wow, that is a lot of prongs.
You said it was a small diamond.

I wonder whether the GIA inscription so long that it would not fit in the space between prongs.

If so, you have your answer.
Don't bother because what you want is impossible.

If not, then proceed.

What is the carat weight of the diamond?
What does your GIA report say the diameter is?
Then, since an OEC is a round, the circumference is 3.14 times the diameter.
Next we need the length of the GIA inscription.
Is only the report number inscribed, or also some brand? (unlikely for an OEC)
 

Jimmianne

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 9, 2013
Messages
6,075
You should definitely have it exactly as you want it.
I always wanted the GIA# showing, but now I'm getting a bezel setting so there goes that bit of fun. I'm not sure in real life you need the number visible.
 

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
The diamond is a little over .75 carats and the diameter is about 5.5mm. The inscription just says "GIA" and the number---no brand or anything like that. I know what the GIA number is, but I don't know the physical length of the inscription specifically.

What I'm hearing is that I don't need to be particularly concerned about the prongs being weakened by a remount so I should just go ahead and get the remount, correct?
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,680
Can you identify your stone by inclusions or possibly by faceting pattern? Are you worried about someone replacing it?

That being said, I don't think they have to unmount it. I think they just have to loosen enough prongs to turn it (best scenario) but would depend on your stone/setting. Of course worst scenario would be unmount.

If it were me* I might be a little ticked, but I would leave it alone.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,680
I guess I should also tell you that I just had my pear reset and when they unset it from my old setting one of the platinum prongs broke. Of course if they broke one of your prongs they would have to fix it but why go there unless you have a really valid reason other than "because that's the way I asked for it to be mounted. "
 

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
tyty333|1459084640|4011647 said:
Can you identify your stone by inclusions or possibly by faceting pattern? Are you worried about someone replacing it?

That being said, I don't think they have to unmount it. I think they just have to loosen enough prongs to turn it (best scenario) but would depend on your stone/setting. Of course worst scenario would be unmount.

If it were me* I might be a little ticked, but I would leave it alone.
The number is more about if the ring gets stolen some day and turns up at a pawn shop or if it gets lost, then whoever ends up with it can look at the number and go "oh, this is Darbox's ring" whereas if the number isn't exposed, it's just another ring. I'm not worried about the rock being switched out or something---the diamond and band aren't especially unique or valuable (for a diamond ring anyway).

I should note that the the diamond is not entirely symmetrical---there is a 0.25mm difference between its widest and narrowest diameters, so turning it might not be as easy as one would hope. Then again, I'm not a jeweler, so maybe this isn't a big deal in terms of turning.
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
906
I want mine mounted so that beauty and the appearance of symmetry are maximized, the table is not slanted at some unusual angle, and the girdle is well-protected, considering that old diamonds often have very think girdles which chip easily. Where the number lands is of no importance to me.
 

susief

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
225
Would a pawn shop routinely check a GIA number on a diamond ring? Or do you mean you would personally go around all local pawn shops and check if your ring was lost or stolen? If the latter, you would surely just recognise it by eye and then prove ownership with the documents your have. The diamond could be unset at that point.

IMO the risk of unsetting and resetting the stone (albeit small) outweighs the even smaller risk of a visible GIA number ever being an advantage. I'd leave it alone.
 

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
susief|1459091769|4011683 said:
Would a pawn shop routinely check a GIA number on a diamond ring? Or do you mean you would personally go around all local pawn shops and check if your ring was lost or stolen? If the latter, you would surely just recognise it by eye and then prove ownership with the documents your have. The diamond could be unset at that point.

IMO the risk of unsetting and resetting the stone (albeit small) outweighs the even smaller risk of a visible GIA number ever being an advantage. I'd leave it alone.
What I meant was that if we became separated from the ring, someone could potentially find us using the number without knowing anything about us. However, further research on my part seems to suggest to me that the number isn't particularly valuable for this purpose since there doesn't seem to be any centralized tracking of stolen or lost diamonds. Instead, the main purpose seems to be distinguishing it from other diamonds, which is something I'm not particularly concerned about since it's not an especially valuable stone and is fairly recognizable since it's an old European cut and sticks out a little for that reason as well. So, the value of the number may be pretty negligible, particularly compared to the risks that are involved with a remounting.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
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28,196
FWIW this site says having 6 prongs may mean part of the inscription will be covered by a prong.
Yours has 8 prongs so it's even more likely that is the case.

http://www.jewelry-secrets.com/Blog/does-your-diamond-inscription-show/

snip:
Do note that this is More Difficult to do this if you have 6 Prongs (versus 4).
Some of the Prongs may have to Cover up some of the Inscription…
If this is the Case, have them Cover up the GIA part (if it’s GIA Certified), versus the Number part.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
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21,680
kenny|1459095480|4011705 said:
FWIW this site says having 6 prongs may mean part of the inscription will be covered by a prong.
Yours has 8 prongs so it's even more likely that is the case.

http://www.jewelry-secrets.com/Blog/does-your-diamond-inscription-show/

snip:
Do note that this is More Difficult to do this if you have 6 Prongs (versus 4).
Some of the Prongs may have to Cover up some of the Inscription…
If this is the Case, have them Cover up the GIA part (if it’s GIA Certified), versus the Number part.
Ditto...5.5mm with 8 prongs. I think it would be difficult to make sure it's not covered.

Most of us have insurance in case of loss. I'm not sure what the chances are of finding your ring/stone again if stolen or loss but most*
of us hedge our bets with insurance. It's sad to lose something that is sentimental but there are several of us who have had to deal
with it. The insurance helps to take the sting off.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,221
Darbox|1459092981|4011687 said:
So, the value of the number may be pretty negligible, particularly compared to the risks that are involved with a remounting.
Really this is your determination to make. But you are getting good advice.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 2, 2013
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3,084
Darbox|1459092981|4011687 said:
susief|1459091769|4011683 said:
Would a pawn shop routinely check a GIA number on a diamond ring? Or do you mean you would personally go around all local pawn shops and check if your ring was lost or stolen? If the latter, you would surely just recognise it by eye and then prove ownership with the documents your have. The diamond could be unset at that point.
IMO the risk of unsetting and resetting the stone (albeit small) outweighs the even smaller risk of a visible GIA number ever being an advantage. I'd leave it alone.
What I meant was that if we became separated from the ring, someone could potentially find us using the number without knowing anything about us. However, further research on my part seems to suggest to me that the number isn't particularly valuable for this purpose since there doesn't seem to be any centralized tracking of stolen or lost diamonds. Instead, the main purpose seems to be distinguishing it from other diamonds, which is something I'm not particularly concerned about since it's not an especially valuable stone and is fairly recognizable since it's an old European cut and sticks out a little for that reason as well. So, the value of the number may be pretty negligible, particularly compared to the risks that are involved with a remounting.
Although it seems that you've moved away from the idea of asking for a remount, let me offer this general fyi. Laser inscriptions aren't impervious to being removed; on the other hand, removing laser inscriptions isn't typical of low-level burglars, robbers and "fences" of personal jewelry. Every state requires pawn brokers to maintain records of what they take in, from whom, etc. But what details are expected to be recorded, how long the pawn shops have to keep the info and how they maintain-store it vary from state to state, and even (depending on local regulations/licensing requirements) within the same state.

But a fair number of law enforcement departments/divisions subscribe to Leads Online & use the service Leads Online established in partnership with eBay. We ordinary civilians can't access these on our own, but here's a page for us that's on LO's web site:
https://www.leadsonline.com/main/civilians/civilians.php

Also, GIA and the FBI work together, as does the NYPD on major cases -- although I don't think any of us should expect the FBI to investigate the theft of our e-rings (barring unusual circumstances).
http://www.jckonline.com/2016/02/19/school-rocks-feds-go-gia
 

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
MollyMalone|1459222635|4012390 said:
Darbox|1459092981|4011687 said:
susief|1459091769|4011683 said:
Would a pawn shop routinely check a GIA number on a diamond ring? Or do you mean you would personally go around all local pawn shops and check if your ring was lost or stolen? If the latter, you would surely just recognise it by eye and then prove ownership with the documents your have. The diamond could be unset at that point.
IMO the risk of unsetting and resetting the stone (albeit small) outweighs the even smaller risk of a visible GIA number ever being an advantage. I'd leave it alone.
What I meant was that if we became separated from the ring, someone could potentially find us using the number without knowing anything about us. However, further research on my part seems to suggest to me that the number isn't particularly valuable for this purpose since there doesn't seem to be any centralized tracking of stolen or lost diamonds. Instead, the main purpose seems to be distinguishing it from other diamonds, which is something I'm not particularly concerned about since it's not an especially valuable stone and is fairly recognizable since it's an old European cut and sticks out a little for that reason as well. So, the value of the number may be pretty negligible, particularly compared to the risks that are involved with a remounting.
Although it seems that you've moved away from the idea of asking for a remount, let me offer this general fyi. Laser inscriptions aren't impervious to being removed; on the other hand, removing laser inscriptions isn't typical of low-level burglars, robbers and "fences" of personal jewelry. Every state requires pawn brokers to maintain records of what they take in, from whom, etc. But what details are expected to be recorded, how long the pawn shops have to keep the info and how they maintain-store it vary from state to state, and even (depending on local regulations/licensing requirements) within the same state.

But a fair number of law enforcement departments/divisions subscribe to Leads Online & use the service Leads Online established in partnership with eBay. We ordinary civilians can't access these on our own, but here's a page for us that's on LO's web site:
https://www.leadsonline.com/main/civilians/civilians.php

Also, GIA and the FBI work together, as does the NYPD on major cases -- although I don't think any of us should expect the FBI to investigate the theft of our e-rings (barring unusual circumstances).
http://www.jckonline.com/2016/02/19/school-rocks-feds-go-gia
I was very close to saying we should just live with it rather than remount, but your post has given me pause. What do you think we should do?

It seems like the number would be valuable in this scenario, but, again, someone would have to actually see the number and register it and we'd have to find the ring again using the number as opposed to merely just happening to find it at the local pawn shop or on craigslist. What I'm hearing generally from this thread seems to be that while the number can conceivably help, most of the time you're only going to get insurance money at best. Is that a fair assessment?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
Get insurance on the ring in case of loss. You make a claim if it is lost or stolen. I have never even thought about asking a jeweler to make sure the inscription is showing. It is more important for the prongs to be positioned right on the stone. 8 prongs is a lot on a stone that size. I don't really see anything gained by asking them to reset it, but I do see risk unsetting and resetting the stone.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 2, 2013
Messages
3,084
Darbox|1459224300|4012408 said:
I was very close to saying we should just live with it rather than remount, but your post has given me pause. What do you think we should do?

It seems like the number would be valuable in this scenario, but, again, someone would have to actually see the number and register it and we'd have to find the ring again using the number as opposed to merely just happening to find it at the local pawn shop or on craigslist. What I'm hearing generally from this thread seems to be that while the number can conceivably help, most of the time you're only going to get insurance money at best. Is that a fair assessment?
I'm not a good person to ask because I soon stopped wearing the replacement for a RH ring; it was too much a reminder of the loss, for which I blame myself because I think I left it on a hotel nightstand, of the lovely original that also had sentimental value.

Were your ring a generic one -- where the inscription number would be a useful way to prove a recovered ring is yours -- I'd suggest that you at least call your local police/sheriff's office to see if they subscribe to either one of Leads Online services before making the decision re a remount. But since this is a vintage OEC in a new mounting, the same kind of decent appraisal you'll want for insurance purposes should also suffice as proof that you are the rightful owner should the ring be stolen/lost & then come to light. So I honestly think that you can feel comfortable about leaving well enough alone.

Hope we'll soon see photos of your ring!
 

Darbox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
6
We decided to leave the ring mounted as it was rather than remounting. The jeweler gave us a significant discount on the mounting fee as compensation.

Thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread. I really, really appreciate your taking the time to help me out with this issue!
 
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