Jerks in the workplace

[ladyciel]

Have you ever been forced to work with a complete and utter jerk? Have you finally stood up to this jerk, only to have the punishment continue because disrespect turns into malice/spite?

My own story is too long to explain now, but I'll come back later to share it. In the meantime, I'm hoping some commiseration will help. I know that I did exactly what I should/needed to, so this thread is more about UGH, SOMETIMES I HATE PEOPLE - DON'T YOU?? than it is for advice.

Rant away!

 

[MonkeyPie]

Have you ever been forced to work with a complete and utter jerk? Have you finally stood up to this jerk, only to have the punishment continue because disrespect turns into malice/spite?

Yup. My boss is in cahoots with the Vice President so I got screwed. So I'll just say, I hate people sometimes too!

 

[elrohwen]

Yes - my previous boss. He's been demoted now (a year after I left the company) which feels pretty good. He was a horrible bully and as soon as I left he started bullying someone else.

 

[Bliss]

Yes! I worked with someone I used to call The Sociopath to DH because he seemed to have no sense of right or wrong, didn't have any capacity for empathy and was a very hostile person with a seemingly unlimited capacity for saying the most hurtful things to others. He was just strange, inappropriate and puzzling in the way he would stare blankly ahead while delivering the rudest most hurtful comments to people in our office. It was SO odd that I tried to stay away from him as much as possible. I couldn't understand it because he would often seek out my advice and come by my office to say hello while engaging in anti-social behaviors with others. He was just so mean at times and yet I detected a good heart in there other times.

This is a man who would say with *real* angry emotion, "Why would ANYONE have a baby? I hate babies. They're SO ugly and annoying!" when he learned I was pregnant. (I laughed because he's known as brilliant but socially bonkers!) And when he learned my colleague was having a girl, he said, "Do me a favor... if your baby does that high pitched squealing sound that girls do - smack her hard for me, will you? That sound makes me want to throw babies out of a window! Girls are so irritating." I mean, highly inappropriate awful things. And the list goes on and on. But other times, he would be sweet and he seemed like a social outcast so I treated him as kindly as I could - and he responded to that over the years.

WELL...SHOCKER ALERT. Last week I was talking to a friend about a PBS special called This Emotional Life. In it, they discuss happiness, bonding and attachment. My friend and I were discussing how amazing it was that an infant's experiences can set the stage for how they bond and trust later in life. We are both pregnant so we were talking about how incredible a responsibility it was. In the PBS special, they discuss older Eastern European orphanages that were studied because children were often left in their cribs with very little interaction and care. Many were not cuddled, loved and were left in their cribs most of the day with nothing but a bottle. Apparently, scientists found that it caused infants to learn that adults cannot be trusted and often severely damaged their sense of security. It had lasting consequences later in life - many of those kids grew up to exhibit Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), where kids never learn to bond with their adoptive parents and suffer behavioral problems like rage, lack of empathy and etc.

Anyway, so I never noticed the hostile colleague listening nearby. He came up to me later in the day and expressed profound interest in the special and wrote it down... He said he had been raised in an orphanage and they told him that he was never picked up and cuddled until he was 2 years old. He said his caregivers later told his adoptive parents that he had episodes of wild rage as a child and acted out in ways that terrified other children and even adults until he was a young man. He does not remember many of those episodes.

I was standing there with my mouth open because I had never imagined he also had a story to tell - and it explained so much. He also said he and two other kids from the orphanage stayed in touch and often discussed why they could never care about others in a way that came so easily to others. He said it was very hard for him to live in a world where everything he did or said was wrong. He was remarkably self aware in a way I didn't expect - he knew there was a disconnect in there somewhere that caused him to act in such a hostile angry manner. But he didn't mean to, it was just the way his brain operated. I mean, the man poured out his life story! He said he had never learned to love or trust and that was why he was 45 and had never been in a relationship. He just went on and on! There is another such person in our office who is like that and he said - he and this other anti-social hostile person were both raised in orphanages and discussed how their behavior often made them outcasts in the workplace. He said he felt like something inside was broken but he never thought there was an actual name for what he was going through. He said it just clicked when he heard our conversation.

That was a huge eye opener for me. I was floored and still am. It really helped me be more gentle and understanding with people who are angry or hostile in general. You just never know what they are struggling with and it just helped me be more compassionate in general with people I do not understand. I guess everyone has a story. Just had to share because it changed how I see "difficult" people in the world. They've often been through a lot and need understanding. It's not easy, but most of what they do or say isn't even personal. Whew! Sorry for the long post!!!

 

[zoebartlett]

In a former position I had, I've had to work with and for people who I didn't like at all. I think the feeling was mutual, actually. It drained me, and after only 3 months, I left and looked for another job. Normally I wouldn't recommend quitting one job without another one lined up, but at the time, I felt that I HAD to in order to stay sane. Before I made the decision to quit, I arrived super early, stayed late, and I still felt that I couldn't stay on top of things. I was micromanaged and not given enough latitude and free range to do my job the way that I saw best. I was expected to do everything exactly how it was laid out and if I ever deviated and used my own professional judgement, I heard about it soon after. I got spoken to by my team leader and our boss for things that were truly ridiculous. I went home and cried pretty much every night. I've never been that miserable in my life.

When something happened near my hometown (a tragic event having nothing to do with work), I was affected greatly. I spoke to my team members and my boss about it -- "hey guys, this is what happened recently and I'm having a hard time dealing with the news. In case I seem quiet at meetings, etc., you'll know why." I didn't owe them any explanation but I wanted to let them know what was going through my mind, although I always remained professional. I was told that many other people (in the area where I worked) were going through things much worse, and basically, I had to suck it up (not said in those words, obviously). That was the last straw and I knew that I had to leave. It was the best thing for me, and only a few weeks later, I found a much better position that was more suited to my professional style.

So, yeah, that was a long answer, but I've worked in positions that were far from ideal.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Is there someone at work that you can trust and talk to?

 

[ladyciel]

Elrohwen and MP, I'm glad to say this guy isn't my boss - that's gotta be REALLY tough to deal with. Bliss, your story is both sad and remarkable. Some of the issues I've had with The Jerk have been blamed on cultural differences, with some mismatches between accepted norms (in our country) and his behavior that seem similar to what you experienced. Zoe, I'm so glad you got out of that situation! Oy. In my case, my boss is totally on my side and understands the crap this guy is giving me. However, the guy works for somebody else, so his power to change things is limited. My boss is doing what he can to get rid of the guy (by helping him get hired somewhere else to be somebody else's problem....).

So, my story... I'll use fake names to try and keep things clear while maintaining as much anonymity as I can. I'm a grad student working in a research lab - we'll call it the lab of "Dr. Smith" (my boss). We'll dub the troublemaker "Bob", who is from another country and works in a different lab on campus under "Dr. Miller". Drs. Smith and Miller have a long-standing collaboration that has brought in grants and produced a decent amount of results. Often times, samples from experiments in my lab are characterized by the other. In other cases, material is given to us for some machining/processing and then given back to them to use as they will. Despite the hands-on work we do, much of our lab's contribution is intellectual, since the material being studied is very much our specialty (with the methods of characterization being theirs).

Bob is a post-doc who has been in Dr. Miller's lab much longer than the norm of 1-2 years, and his way of interacting with/abusing students in our lab has gained infamy. My personal experience started with him assuming/acting as if my sole responsibility was to produce samples for him, on his schedule, with no notice, despite it being something he could do himself using our equipment. Now, I have no problem working on things for this collaboration - BUT, I also have a thesis project of my own, and I can't just stop my experiments at the drop of a hat to be at his beck and call. He would send an email Friday evening saying "I need 15 samples", and then call on Monday with the expectation that the samples would be done. When you explain that it takes several days, at least, to do what he wants, and you can't start until X date because of another experiment currently underway, he would brush you off as useless/lazy. The concept of planning ahead and providing notice is foreign to him, and despite repeated requests/suggestions from all of us, including both my boss and his, he refuses to grasp the concept. In addition, he would show up in our lab unannounced, pose random questions about topics that aren't my area of research, and then say "oh, right, right, you don't know..." while waving me off as if I was a total idiot and of course I wouldn't be able to help him. We got a new piece of equipment in our lab, and he showed up one day wanting to use it (again, without notice). I was on another floor of the building, and my lab-mate, who works on a different project and is unfamiliar with the new machine, gave him the extension for the room I was in and suggested he call me to see if I could come help him. I told him I needed 15 minutes to finish something I was in the middle of, but then I would be up. In the meantime, he got impatient and wanted to use the equipment without me. He assured my lab-mate that he was already trained on it (he wasn't) and that "it's very simple - I know how to do it". That expression - "it's simple" is his FAVORITE thing to say, especially when something is "simple" but he doesn't want to do it himself. "you know, you just do this...it's simple.....you can have it for me by tomorrow, right?". Feeling like he wasn't being honest, my lab-mate convinced him to hold off until I got upstairs, at which point it became obvious that he did NOT know how to use the equipment. It requires a reservoir to be filled with water to cool some moving parts, which he did not know. Had he run it before I got there, he would have damaged/ruined a brand new, not cheap, piece of equipment. I think that this tendency to be very proud/unable to admit ignorance or being wrong, is a part of his culture. The chain of command - underlings vs elders, is also very strong where he grew up, which may explain his expectation that I should help him without questioning him. However, the way he talks to me - with this air of superiority and without any respect for what I know, do and am responsible for, is more than I can take.

So, dealing with this guy is generally a hassle, because it consists of half-descriptive demands given at short notice and with little to no respect for the effort involved. When, predictably, his time line (which is always hurried but never specific) is impossible for you to meet, he dismisses you as useless/lazy. In a recent episode, I again got an email on Friday asking for samples. He left out any specifics about WHEN he needed them or what for. Also, there had been no mention of upcoming samples during our monthly meeting with his lab to discuss the collaborative projects. My husband and I were in the midst of packing for a move, so I didn't get back to him right away. Come Monday morning, I get an impatient phone call from him. I told him I would have to email him back later in the afternoon once I could check some details at work, which I did. I kindly explained in that email that I was in the middle of moving and had my own experiments to juggle, but that if his samples were urgent I could take an hour or two to show him how to do the machining himself. Perhaps I wasn't perfectly clear, but I meant that I could help him the next week if he could wait until then. I also inquired about some samples I had made for him a few months back because I was interested to hear how the experiment turned out (samples given to him have a way of entering a black hole never to be spoken of again).

His reply was about as unprofessional as you can get. He copied his boss as well as a third collaborator, but NOT my boss. He then proceeded to complain that for a collaboration our lab doesn't do enough and that what work we do is crap. He said that N, a student who had graduated from my lab, was included as an author on papers despite "doing so little", and that he only asks for things a few times a year not every day. So, all in all, he insulted our efforts, demeaned the intellectual contribution and time of a prior student whose efforts/ideas directed much of the research, continued to ignore the importance of notice and planning, and took my interest in the results that stemmed from my labor as a grab for authorship (which he promised, btw, when asking for the samples in the first place). My offer to train him was taken as me not wanting to do the work myself instead of an attempt to get him what he seemed to need - samples made ASAP - within the limits of what I could give him.

I replied with a VERY edited email, copying everyone he included as well as my boss, and did my very very best to be civil and to the point. My exact words were "May I respectfully clarify that I am not complaining re: authorship - I am simply curious as to how the samples are being used. As you pointed out, we work through a collaboration, and I would very much like the opportunity to be a part of the intellectual aspects. You have not said when you need to have these new samples, but your phone call hinted at it being ASAP. My offer to show you how to do them yourself was given in the interest of helping you get them in a time line more to your liking; your requests, while infrequent, often come with short notice. If you would please let me know when it is that you would like these samples finished, I will do what I can to help you." In the end, his boss scolded him (not in my presence, but I'm aware that it happened), commended me for my impressive degree of civility, and referenced Bob's cultural differences as sometimes causing conflicts before he (boss) could intervene to stop them.

Fast forward a month or two, and now there is a collaboration project which has stemmed from my own ideas/research which Dr. Miller (Bob's boss) is really interested in. Bob would be the person analyzing the samples since the technique is his area of expertise. However, the double standard at play, I'm now hitting roadblock after roadblock in trying to get ANYTHING from him, even just a simple yes/no reply to an email. It takes him over a week to answer, if he DOES answer, and he ignores at least half of what I've asked. I'm not asking for his time in any way yet other than to write me back with details I need to know to plan the experiment (for example, what size the samples should be to fit in his instrument). Whether his failure to reply is a lack of respect/care for me/this project, or whether it's purposefully out of spite in response to me finally standing up for myself, the result is the same - I can't get anywhere with the project, and I'm now going to be forced to bug his boss just to get the mundane details. Apparently this project doesn't qualify as his idea of what a collaboration should be (you know, me obediently being his slave w/o any thought of my own).

Is it bad enough for me to try to change labs mid-PhD? No way. Is it bad enough to make me rant aggressively on PS? Oh yeah!

Phew, that ended up being a LONG story! Sorry 'bout that!

 

[Liane]

So... is this guy some kind of world-class supergenius, or what? Why does his boss let him get away with that crap? Clearly he knows the crap is going on and is not okay with it, so what's with the failure to adequately beat the dude over the head and shoulders with a shovel for constantly pulling it?

 

[ladyciel]

I reallllly don't know why he's been allowed to stay as long as he has. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with Dr. Miller having a great deal more patience/understanding than I do. It's only been recently that severe impatience has become obvious on the part of Dr. M during meetings where Bob is there and being a pain. The priceless case was when Bob proceeded to argue with Dr. M about spending money on a project. It was Dr. M's grant, his decision, and the relief of any researcher is hearing you have free license to buy what you need. Instead, Bob sat there and argued for 15 minutes against spending the money, without making any really good points. I think everyone in the meeting was in disbelief. Bob does know his stuff, so there's SOME value in keeping him around. He's also very passionate and excited about things that are HIS idea. Part of the issue may be funding, since I don't know where his comes from. If he has his own, then there may a financial loss associated with booting him (i.e. loss of labor paid for by somebody else).

 

[princesss]

Gah, what a PITA!

I might go to Dr. Miller and say, "I'm sorry to have to do this, but it seems the only way I will get a response is if Bob sees that you are in copy and he is being watched. Currently it takes x amount of time to get a response from him and this experiment really needs to get off the ground. I will be putting you in CC of all e-mails to Bob as it seems like the only way I can get a response."

ETA: I mean, it's HIS employee that's being a pain in the rear. It seems like the least that he could do is share in some of the pain.

 

[ladyciel]

Haha, I totally agree, Princess! I sent Bob another email this morning, without CC, to give him one last chance. Tomorrow morning I will be emailing his boss, with Bob CC'd, to ask if he's out of town or otherwise unavailable. And, from now on, all emails concerning this project will have his boss copied, no exceptions. My boss actually suggested being sneaky and Bcc'ing the boss, though that's maybe a little more vindictive than I care to be...

 

[princesss]

Honestly, I don't know that I think it's so much vindictive as I think it's informative. It's possible that Dr. Miller doesn't completely realize how Bob treats the people he is supposed to be collaborating with, and this could be a clear snapshot of the way he works (or refuses to work) with others.

 

[kama_s]

There is a very simple way to handle this. I was in research too, and I full understand the kind of person you're dealing with. I would simple copy both Dr. Miller and Dr. Smith on EVERY request/question. And when you don't get a response in x number of days (you decide what's your breaking point), send another e-mail outlining when your e-mail was sent, that Bob has yet to respond and that you would appreciate a response by date Y. And ofcourse, this e-mail ALSO gets CCed to Dr. Smith and Dr. Miller.

Good luck!!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Sorry to read about such a jerk. I think you have handled it so well. You should continue as you planned. A jerk like that is hard to change. His boss could probably do it, but at that level you would think he wouldn't have to say anything.

You are a bright spot on PS

Annette

 

[LadyBlue]

ladyciel, I'm sorry about this guys. I have to confess that while I was reeding the story I picture "Bob" as Sheldon Cooper

 

[elrohwen]

Gah, what a PITA!

I might go to Dr. Miller and say, "I'm sorry to have to do this, but it seems the only way I will get a response is if Bob sees that you are in copy and he is being watched. Currently it takes x amount of time to get a response from him and this experiment really needs to get off the ground. I will be putting you in CC of all e-mails to Bob as it seems like the only way I can get a response."

ETA: I mean, it's HIS employee that's being a pain in the rear. It seems like the least that he could do is share in some of the pain.

This. I have no issues putting managers on CC when people don't return my emails over an extended period of time.

Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for the rest of the situation. This guy is a real piece of work! At least it seems like everyone realizes how awful he is and that you are doing the best you can to work with him.

 

[JulieN]

Yup. And he got me fired. Gave me a pansy-ass handshake when I was let go. I think he got fired a week or two after me for, basically, sucking at his job.

 

[zoebartlett]

There is a very simple way to handle this. I was in research too, and I full understand the kind of person you're dealing with. I would simple copy both Dr. Miller and Dr. Smith on EVERY request/question. And when you don't get a response in x number of days (you decide what's your breaking point), send another e-mail outlining when your e-mail was sent, that Bob has yet to respond and that you would appreciate a response by date Y. And ofcourse, this e-mail ALSO gets CCed to Dr. Smith and Dr. Miller.

Good luck!!

I've never been in research but this is how I'd handle the situation too. I hope things begin to improve. It must feel good to know that you have the support of your boss and Bob's.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

ladyciel, I'm sorry about this guys. I have to confess that while I was reeding the story I picture "Bob" as Sheldon Cooper

Me too! Just get him started on string theory.... bazinga!

In all seriousness though, Ladyciel, I'm so sorry to hear about Bob. He sounds like such a pill. I don't think it's vindictive to BCC Dr. Miller and everyone - as smart as he is, there's gotta be a limit to how much the supervisors can take with a personality like that. It'll give them an objective look at what Bob is like and they can make a decision on how to rein him in, or hopefully, to dismiss him!

 

[zoebartlett]

ladyciel, I'm sorry about this guys. I have to confess that while I was reeding the story I picture "Bob" as Sheldon Cooper

Me too! Just get him started on string theory.... bazinga!

In all seriousness though, Ladyciel, I'm so sorry to hear about Bob. He sounds like such a pill. I don't think it's vindictive to BCC Dr. Miller and everyone - as smart as he is, there's gotta be a limit to how much the supervisors can take with a personality like that. It'll give them an objective look at what Bob is like and they can make a decision on how to rein him in, or hopefully, to dismiss him!

I'm not sure I understand why BCCing the supervisors would work. If I were you, I'd be very upfront about CCing them for everything. That way, Bob will KNOW that your boss and his (and maybe others) are checking up on him. It might keep him on his toes a bit more to see that all correspondence to him is also going to someone of greater authority.

 

[charbie]

There are two women I work with who I think don't realize how rude they come off whenever they open their mouths. I have to work quite closely with one, and she works closely with the other. A part of my job hinges on her ability to quickly complete authorizations for insurance companies. Whenever I give them to her to complete, she gives me attitude about how she has sooooooo much to do. Too Bad! Without authorization, we can't bring in new patients, and without patients, no one has a job! Duh!

So yes, I do work with jerks.